Is Ghandi In Heaven...or Will He Be?..

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. You said..........
    "Your belief is that after death God will simply choose not to help anyone who died in ignorance, which I understand and may very well be the case,"

  2. Of course not. They were looking for Messiah. When He actually came to them, they rejected Him. That my friend began the church age which the prophet Daniel said in 9:24 would start "when Messiah was cut off" (Crucified). We now live in that age of grace which is the "church age".
  3. Yes. In the same way the OT Saints were saved by Jesus sacrifice by seeking the One True God so will any other true seeker. There is only One True God.
    Major likes this.
  4. Yes. Under the conditions spelled out in the word of God.
    Major and agua say Amen and like this.
  5. Agreed!

    Every single animal that was sacrificed in the Old Test. economy pointed toward the Messiah. Old test. saints were saved by faith looking forward to Messiah and we today are saved by faith looking back at Messiah.

    Romans 4:13 (ESV)
    4 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
  6. Although Noah was presumably saved despite the fact he lived before Moses and Abraham.
  7. And Abel and Enoch....

    Heb 11:4-7 NIV By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead. (5) By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: "He could not be found, because God had taken him away." For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. (6) And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. (7) By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

    Anyone who truly seeks Yahweh will find Him.
  8. "Presumably"??

    Genesis 6:8
    "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord".

    This is the 1st mention of GRACE on the Bible and it is used here "redemptivly". It implies unmerited favor from God to an inferior one and it seems to me that the salvation of Noah was a sure thing!
  9. I was being facetious Major.

    Yes of course Noah was saved, but he did not have any concept of the Messiah. He was saved, I suppose, by an act of God specially set aside from the Old and New Covenants. But, my point was that salvation and how one attains it, might be more complex and mysterious than you are making it.
  10. OT Saints knew the Messiah would come and earnestly looked forward to Him imo.

    1Pe 1:8-12 NIV Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, (9) for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls. (10) Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, (11) trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. (12) It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

    We aren't told a lot about Noah really but we know Abraham had a good understanding of the coming Messiah and the Resurrection so I think he would have learned this partly from his ancestors.
    Major likes this.
  11. My brother, I want you to think. You personally use a lot of philosophy and articulation with your opinions. Now since you do that try to use that in this situation.

    If what you said is true.........." but he did not have any concept of the Messiah", then the only way would have been if Noah had been instructed in the Levitical system before the flood. Isn't that correct?????

    Then if he was, that means that the sacrificial system was in place from the beginning, and only formalized at Mt. Sinai. There are other signs that this was in fact the case. THINK!!!

    Genesis 3:7
    "And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

    When Adam and Eve clothed themselves in leaves, they were in effect covering themselves by the works of their hands. In removing these garments and replacing them with animal skins, God showed them that it was by the shedding of innocent blood that they would be “covered” before Him.

    Now consider Genesis 3:15.......
    "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

    There is the FIRST promise of a coming Messiah!!!!!

    Genesis 4:6-7
    "And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

    When Cain brought an offering of vegetables it was refused. Abel’s sacrifice of the first born of his flock was accepted. God said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?”

    How could Cain know to do what is right unless he’d been taught? These two events give us clues that the sacrificial system was in effect from the beginning. Ever since the first sin, the model of the Messiah, whose innocent life would be sacrificed to cover us before God, had been taught to mankind.

    Now consider Genesis 7:2 and 3....
    "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
    3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth."

    Do you SEE IT!!!! God had Noah take MORE THAN 2 of each animal species. "Clean and not clean." Literally "even sevens" of every CLEAN beast which means SEVEV PAIRS or three pairs plus one with the extra one being used for a sacrifice later on.

    BUT a sacrifice must be pointed to someone doesn't it???? Where is that and why??

    Genesis 8:20 gives the answer........
    "And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar."

    How could Noah know to do what is right unless he’d been taught? Again, these Bible verse point to the idea that the sacrificial was in effect from the beginning and every sacrifice in the Old Test POINTED to the coming messiah.
  12. The state you die in is the state you arte in forever.
    "For as a tree leans so it will fall " and where it falls it lies or stays .

    It is no good holding in your breast some vain hope that people will be saved after they have passed away .
    If you are separated from God in life . Then you are separated from God when you die forever .
    For it would be unjust of God to take a person who loves darkness more than the light to put him in the light .Even as it would be unjust of God to take someone who loves the light to put him in outer darkness.
    In truth he puts people in places they love the most .
    it is not then idle speculation .
    Hell was created for the devil and all the angels that believed him and followed him.
    Not for man.
    But if man believes the father of all lies then ultimately he is following him and will eventually finish up where the devil is going to finish up cast out .
    But if men believe HIm who is the way the truth and the life .Then they will follow Him and thus be where he is .

    If a man finds himself in hell it will not be soi much they have sinned .For all have sinned . But because "they have not believed on Him who m God has sent "
    Ghandi was a Hindu and like a good Hindu believed all gods were equal and should be' honoured '. There is no indication he ever repented or confessed Christ.

    In Christ
  13. 1Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

    3Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. ”

    4“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

    5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

    - ATP
  14. Born of water and spirit...baptised in water and spirit.

    No indication that ghandi ever professed Jesus is Lord, so..I would say no. Why you ask? Did you know him personally? He could have right before he died..but I never heard such a thing, hes a well known hindu.

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