Is Ghandi In Heaven...or Will He Be?..

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by THALLON, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. I doubt the integrity of such findings.. I can hardly imagine such a focussed freedom fighter to be indulging such acts.. If he was doing those things, I don't think he would have had such focus..
  2. Yeah I agree HisManySongs and the pre anglo settlement Auatralian Aborigine would fall into this category. They were/are a very spiritual people and if their search for the One True God led them to trust Yahweh, even if they didn't know His Name, they will be saved by Jesus' sacrifice.
    Abdicate likes this.
  3. I don't know my brother. It is possible to find out a lot of really disgusting facts if one looks hard enough. I would tend to think there was some truth in what Glomung said.

    For example, did we know that Buddha actually abandoned his wife and family to go into the woods get enlightened....and never came back.
    He talked about love and family but left his.

    Mohammed. Did we know that he actually raided caravans, killing women and children and stealing all their goods? He was actually a pedophile and married a 13 year old girl. He could not read nor write but had a "male" secretary he spoke the Quran to.

    What about Pope Alexander VI. Did we know that he started the world's 1st recorded crime family?
    He fathered four children and broke up his daughter's marriage in favor of an incestuous relationship with himself.

    Thanks to the internet, all of this stuff s easily found now instead of spending hours in the library like I did years ago.

  4. Are you really sure about that???

    What you are saying is that ones "sincerity" will allow them accesss to God in heaven whether or not they know, hear or even accept the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Are you aware of how many Bible verse there are which do not agree with you? Just asking, not arguing my brother!

    If sincerity were all that was necessary, then any sincere person who believed most anything could make it to heaven. That means Mormons who sincerely believe that God came from another planet and has a goddess wife would make it to heaven. It would also mean that Muslims who sincerely believe that Jesus is not God in flesh--did not die on the cross for our sins--would also go to heaven. It would mean that atheists would go to heaven if they are sincere people and do good. Does that sound right????

    Appealing to sincerity as a reason to be able to go to heaven is appealing to pride. This is because pride is a high opinion of one's own self or quality or merit or ability. If a person is appealing to his own sincerity as a justification by which he can go to heaven, then he is appealing to a quality within himself which merits the ability to go to heaven. It also means that the person is not trusting in what God has done but is trusting in his own heart and goodness.

    All of this is pride because it is self-centered and is implying a person is good enough to be with God on his own. This is the same reason why Nimrod built towers to heaven. He was trying to by pass God.

    Think about this for a moment.............. Mark 7:21-23
    Jesus said, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 “All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man". So, our hearts, the place where sincerity resides, is a place of wickedness. That fact, given to us by God Himself should cause us to think this through very carfully. This is not to say that every thought and every intention is pure evil, but it does mean that our hearts are not good enough.

    The Bible says that in order to go to heaven, a person must have faith in the work of Jesus Christ and not his own work. A person must put faith and trust in the sacrifice of Jesus who was made under the law (Galatians 4:4), who had greatly humbled himself by being a man (Philippians 2:5-8), who lived a perfect life (1 Peter 2:22), who bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24), and died and rose from the dead three days later (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

    To be made right with God, to be justified, can only be by faith and not by our works or the condition of our hearts because everything we do is touched by sin. Therefore, salvation and being able to go to heaven is by faith alone in Christ alone (Romans 3:28; 4:1-5; 5:1; John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9).

    I hope this helps.
  5. Romans 2:10-16 (KJV)
    But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    All men have a conscience. The law is written on their hearts. If they know not the name of Jesus, they are not condemned, but then they are judged by the word of God written on their heart which is plain to any who seek. So when they get judge for their sins, they cannot use the excuse "I never knew."

    Romans 1:20-21 (KJV)
    For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
  6. The old Major does not want to argue with you kind people. We are just talking and I do not want anyone going ballistic because of me or what I say. IF you do not agree with me......wonderful! I am not responding to anyone to anger them. I have I think the same right as everyone else to post my understandings.

    However.......the Scriptures are abundantly clear that the only access to heaven and God the Father is through the Lord Jesus Christ.

    If you all want to convince yourselves other wise....then that is your choice to do so and I will not argue with you. In fact, I have to agree that what you say I like to hear. I hope that really nice, loving and sincere people get to God when they die. However, there is ZERO Bible doctrine to support any thought that one can become a child of God after death.

    There is also ZERO Bible facts or Scripture that says anyone can Get to heaven apart from faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. IF you want to think that.....God bless you. I for one am going to continue to accept what the Bible teaches me.

    The Bible teaches that the ONLY way to have eternal life is through the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. .............
    John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    I John 5:11 ...God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    I John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    John 14:6...."I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me".
  7. You are as always very Biblically correct.

    Paul gave in the verse you posted two reasons why the man without God is lost and deserves the condemnation he will receive.

    1). Man is convicted by the revelation of God in nature. (vss 12:20)
    2). Man is convicted because of the revelation of God in their conscience. (vss 21-23).

    The Bible then says that "the wrath of God is revealed against all who suppress the truth of these two witnesses!!!!!
    To the "heathen" who does not suppress this fundamental light, the Lord Jehovah grants additional enlightenment of His person. But whosoever is guility of suppressing the available truth about God does not receive light unto salvation.
    Abdicate likes this.
  8. 'bout sums it up :) Thanks for the kind words.
  9. Does all things are possible with God strike a chord? Your belief is that after death God will simply choose not to help anyone who died in ignorance, which I understand and may very well be the case, but the Bible is chalk full of miracles. In addition, Christ descended to the dead after His crucifixion to "harrow" those held captive there. One example of such a miraculous act.

    Also, Noah, had no concept of the Holy Son, or the Trinity, yet he had favor with God, despite the fact he died without a savior. Few would think that Noah is not a saint.

    All I am saying is that we shouldn't judge someone no matter how certain we are of their state because God can perform miracles that no man can do.
  10. Matt 7 So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'…
    In this context many Christians will not be in heaven.
    and Ghandi by virtue of his Christ like works shall be entitled to enter?
  11. This is interesting. Yes if someone sincerely/diligently searches for Yahweh they will find Him. Can you show me the Bible verses that disagree and also can you show me how you believe a pre anglo Australian Aborigine could know Jesus ?

    If you want to have a discussion with me you'll need to stop using logical fallacies and stick to what I say. If any person truly seeks the One true God they will find Him.

    Yahweh said anyone who truly seeks Him will find Him. How do you suggest Yahweh revealed Himself to the pre anglo australian Aborigine ?

    Searching for Yahweh is what he wants. How do you suggest a person who has never heard the Name of Jesus can e saved ?

    Do you allow people who have not heard the Name of Jesus the opportunity of Salvation ? Also do you think someone who seeks Yahweh is attempting to be saved by his works ?
  12. Do you think a person who has never heard the Name of Jesus can be saved ?
  13. You seem to be insinuating that I have something to do with this. Believe n=my friend I do not have anything to do with this.
    I posted the Bible verses for you and I said that I was not intending to arguing the point and I am not.

    I simply believe what God said and posted the Bible verse where he said it. Your problem is not with me my friend.

    And as for wanted to have a conversation with you without fallacies and stick with what "you say".........In as nice as a way as I can say it.........
    Good bye and my the lord bless you.
  14. Ok thank you for your input.
  15. You are welcome and may the Lord bless you!
  16. You said.......
    "Do you allow people who have not heard the Name of Jesus the opportunity of Salvation ? Also do you think someone who seeks Yahweh is attempting to be saved by his works ?"

    Do you reject John 14:6...........
    "I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by me".

    Ephesians 2:8.....
    "We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves least we should boast".
  17. I'll assume you answer no to both of my questions if I'm wrong let me know.

    Joh 14:6 KJV Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Jesus is the only way any man can be saved because of His one time for all time sacrifice and resurrection. This means that any person who will inherit eternal life only has this opportunity because of Jesus. The OT Saints for example never heard the Name of Jesus and yet are saved by His sacrifice because they followed the One True God .

    Eph 2:8-9 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Yahweh asks us to believe in Him and this is not a self righteous work but a requirement of faith.

    Heb 11:6 KJV But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
  18. My brother.....that is NOT what it is saying!!!!

    Not everyone who says they are believers are in fact believers! Even the outward verbal belief of Christ is in itself enough to save the lost. A real born again believer will actually be doing the will of the Father.

    The real question is......."What is the will of the Father"?
  19. Old test. saints were saved by faith pointing toward the Messiah who was to come. We are saved by faith looking back at Messiah who we now know is Jesus.
  20. Yes. Did the OT Saints know the Name of Jesus ?

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