Is Getting Baptised Needed?

How do you know He lead them out?
Consider this: there are about 49,000 different denomination, all claiming to be lead by the Holy Spirit, yet they teach different individual doctrines. Are they all right that God teaches different interpretations? Can there be more than one right way? Or can they be mislead?

Each week, there are multiple new denominations that get started. Every single week.

I don't believe that there are new denominations that start every week. People disobey God by being sectarian.

These are things we can know. When one is seeking and asking, God will answer.

Christians have many different denominations, but that is because man has become highly sectarian. Jesus is anti-sectarian. However, the one thing that denominations that matter hold to is the truth about Jesus Christ, that he has come as God in the flesh and borne our sins on His body, died and was raised again. It is His shed blood that cleanses us from all sin, and it by faith in Him that we receive the grace gift of His righteousness. If we agree on who Jesus is, then we agree. Doctrinal differences can be set aside because we are united in Christ.

However, certain practices that are rooted in idolatry are not acceptable, as we see in Catholicism.
 
I don't believe that there are new denominations that start every week. People disobey God by being sectarian.

These are things we can know. When one is seeking and asking, God will answer.

Christians have many different denominations, but that is because man has become highly sectarian. Jesus is anti-sectarian. However, the one thing that denominations that matter hold to is the truth about Jesus Christ, that he has come as God in the flesh and borne our sins on His body, died and was raised again. It is His shed blood that cleanses us from all sin, and it by faith in Him that we receive the grace gift of His righteousness. If we agree on who Jesus is, then we agree. Doctrinal differences can be set aside because we are united in Christ.

However, certain practices that are rooted in idolatry are not acceptable, as we see in Catholicism.
I have to stop you right there. Catholiosm does not not has it ever practiced idolatry. I'm going to address it in two different posts so that it's not overwhelmingly text-heavy. But I think I need to really get into it...

1) "What's with all the statues? Don't Catholics practice idolatry with them?"

Statues are very heavily used within the Catholic Church, and there is a big reason for it which will be explained. But one thing is for sure – it rubs a lot of non-Catholic Christians the wrong way, and I think without explanation, it’s reasonable. But WITH explanation, it gives reason as to why it isn’t bad at all…and in fact, why how statues have been an excellent part of the Church.

The reason why people hold concern with Statues is because of Exodus 20:4

“You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.”

Exodus 20:4 is one of the Commandments, and the Commandments are Divine Law. It still holds valid today. So does that mean the Catholic Church is taking and leaving what it likes and doesn’t like in the Bible?
No. The passage continues on verse 5:

“You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me”

The Commandment is addressing putting God 2nd, making gods, worshiping other things, etc, especially while there was a lot of superstition taking place, and God had no image (He had not come into the world as flesh yet). Catholics agree with Protestants that statues and anything else used for worship is totally wrong.

One of the problems may be that Protestants don’t know what Catholics use the statues for. Some think they are used for worship, but of course that’s not true. For the most part, we use them the same way Protestant churches use them…and yes, many Protestant churches use religious images too. I remember a few of my old churches had nativity scenes set up around Christmas time. Some churches include stained glass windows. But if the problem is that the images are statues, not flat paintings or window art, then there should be concern with God’s commanding of the Ark of the Covenant in Exodus 25:18:

“You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.”

Or in Numbers 21:8​

“Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live.”

Let’s remember the difference between statues and idols; statues are images often used for memory and honor. This is why we have pictures of our loved ones or statues of individuals who have inspired us to be great people.

Catholics use statues of the saints or Mary to recognize their holiness and inspire us to be like them – obedient to God. And statues of Jesus can often be used to remind us of His suffering for us and a focus for when we worship Him. An idol, however, is a replacement of God. If we begin to worship the statue itself, then we’ve made an idol out of it.
Catholic history is full of imagery and art. In fact, the Catholic Church has been a patronage of the arts, and its beauty has been a form of evangelism in itself. But one of the most interesting aspects of Catholicism and statues, in my opinion, is its use for teaching the scriptures to the poor and the illiterate.

Back when a Bible used to cost three year’s wage and only the very wealthy could afford it, statues and art that depicted scenes from the Bible were used to illustrate the gospels. In fact, they used to call these statues “The Gospel of the Poor.”

The relationship of statues and Christianity isn’t a dirty one. It’s a rather healthy one. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2132, says this:

“The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, “the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,” and “whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.” The honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God alone: Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is”

Idolatry is always bad. Statues though—they’ve served as inspiration and understanding to grow closer to God.

Since you read the Catechism, can you show me where it teaches to worship statues?
 
I don't believe that there are new denominations that start every week. People disobey God by being sectarian.

These are things we can know. When one is seeking and asking, God will answer.

Christians have many different denominations, but that is because man has become highly sectarian. Jesus is anti-sectarian. However, the one thing that denominations that matter hold to is the truth about Jesus Christ, that he has come as God in the flesh and borne our sins on His body, died and was raised again. It is His shed blood that cleanses us from all sin, and it by faith in Him that we receive the grace gift of His righteousness. If we agree on who Jesus is, then we agree. Doctrinal differences can be set aside because we are united in Christ.

However, certain practices that are rooted in idolatry are not acceptable, as we see in Catholicism.

2) "But doesn't the Catholic Church teach Marian worship? Christians should only worship God alone!"

Christians MUST worship God alone -- show me where the Church teaches Marian worship...
To start, I think I should cut to the chase on something that most Protestants are concerned about when it comes to Catholics and Mary…
CATHOLICS DON’T WORSHIP MARY.

The misconception comes from Marian prayer, the Immaculate Conception, and her title as the Queen of Heaven. There is an explanation for it all, and none of it equals worships.

So if Catholics don’t worship Mary, how do Catholics respond to Mary? The answer is we honor her. But many people would still have issue with that. Here’s why we should honor Mary. Exodus 20:12 (NASB) says

Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.

Jesus loved His mother and, being obedient to the Commandments, honored her. As Christians, we honor Mary because we are imitating Jesus.

To quote Saint Maximilian Kolbe:

“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.”

BUT WHY PRAY TO MARY IF WE ARE ONLY TO PRAY TO GOD?

Let’s not confuse prayer for worship in every account. When we pray to God, it should always be done in worship. Every prayer involving Mary should never bypass God. This is why prayers said by Catholics begin with the sign of the Cross (in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Going further, prayer to Mary isn’t so much prayer TO her as it is asking her to pray FOR us.

HOW WE CAN ASK MARY TO PRAY FOR US IF SHE’S DEAD?

As Christians, we believe those in heaven have eternal life (John 3:16). We believe Mary is in heaven. Therefore, we believe Mary is alive. Let’s remember that God is not of the dead, but of the living who love through Him (Luke 20:38).


BUT WHY ASK HER TO PRAY FOR US WHEN WE CAN GO DIRECTLY TO GOD?

We are told in James 5:16 to confess our sins to one another and PRAY FOR EACH OTHER. Have you have had a problem and went to a friend or pastor for support and asked them to pray for you? This is what Catholics do when we go to Mary.

Many people, when they really need prayer go to a pastor. Why so you think that is? It’s because we recognize that he is very close to God. No one was ever as close to Jesus than His mother, and this is why Catholics put emphasis on Marian prayer.

John 2:3-5:

When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

Mary has a way of directing us to her Son, and that is her role. Mary wasn’t merely an incubator for Jesus, she has always acted as a model Christian — she was technically the FIRST Christian.

WHY DO WE NEED THE HAIL MARY PRAYER IF IT’S NOT BIBLICAL.

Well, it is actually!

Here is the break down of the prayer:

Hail Mary, full of grace
The Lord is with thee

(Luke 1:28)
Blessed art thou among women
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus

(Luke 1:42)
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us, now and at the hour of our death
Amen

(James 5:16)

Most of the prayer, if you research the verses, are taken directly from the Bible while all of it is backed Biblically. Mary said in Luke 1:48 that all generations will call her blessed — and she was right for saying that.

Catholics love Mary, we honor her, and do these things because we have a bigger love for her Son…but we don’t worship her — that is reserved only for her Son.

If you still believe Catholicism teaches to worship Mary, please direct me to the paragraph in the Catechism that says to worship her. You can't because it doesn't.​
 
Well, its looks like we are getting the Catholic propaganda ... here comes the strife and contention, because when the truth is told this is the most ungodly of groups and have proven it throughout recent history.
 
Well you can say that these things are not worshipped, but they clearly are!

No, Catholicism teaches not to.

Please show me where the official teaching is of the Catholic Church that says to worship Mary and Statues.

If you can, then I will take your word for it, but I will not take it at face value.
 
Well, its looks like we are getting the Catholic propaganda ... here comes the strife and contention, because when the truth is told this is the most ungodly of groups and have proven it throughout recent history.

I beg your pardon. This is not propaganda, it is called a defense. This entire thread has become explicitly anti-Catholic, has discarded me as a non-Christian, and has stated fallacy after fallacy with NO sound evidence. I decided to provide evidences and reason for what the Church teaches and what it does NOT teach. It is up to you to decide whether you wan to accept or reject Catholicism, but I am at least providing you with information of what it does teach so that you can at least reject Catholicism rather than a distorted version of it.

I have to be honest, this forum had very welcoming people here at one point. We discussed, found disagreement, but engaged and had a better understanding of where each side was coming from. But if you have an agenda, all of those good things will go right out the window.

I welcome you to discuss and even debate, but leave the insults and slanders aside.
 
Well, its looks like we are getting the Catholic propaganda ... here comes the strife and contention, because when the truth is told this is the most ungodly of groups and have proven it throughout recent history.

I'll be honest...I am not feeling Godly love from you when you make statements like this.

If I have said anything that has offended you directly, I apologize for that, but I do not apologize for defending the faith.
 
I beg your pardon. This is not propaganda, it is called a defense. This entire thread has become explicitly anti-Catholic, has discarded me as a non-Christian, and has stated fallacy after fallacy with NO sound evidence. I decided to provide evidences and reason for what the Church teaches and what it does NOT teach. It is up to you to decide whether you wan to accept or reject Catholicism, but I am at least providing you with information of what it does teach so that you can at least reject Catholicism rather than a distorted version of it.

I have to be honest, this forum had very welcoming people here at one point. We discussed, found disagreement, but engaged and had a better understanding of where each side was coming from. But if you have an agenda, all of those good things will go right out the window.

I welcome you to discuss and even debate, but leave the insults and slanders aside.
No, folks are not attacking your religion. And this issue has not been on this forum (since I have been here) until you made it an issue. We are Protestant reformers and of course you are Catholic...this battle does not need to be fought. Of course Protestants are going to say things that you don't like, Catholics say things I don't like or agree with...but why bring the contention up, if we don't have to? And the rape of children is a sad truth, that relates directly to the godliness of your supposed faith.
 
No, folks are not attacking your religion. And this issue has not been on this forum (since I have been here) until you made it an issue. We are Protestant reformers and of course you are Catholic...this battle does not need to be fought. Of course Protestants are going to say things that you don't like, Catholics say things I don't like or agree with...but why bring the contention up, if we don't have to? And the rape of children is a sad truth, that relates directly to the godliness of your supposed faith.
Most of the time, I don't. Someone else makes a claim and I make a defense. If it were up to me, I'd rather focus on our commonalities like our love for God.

If I had made a remark how people like you make the most ungodly responses, in other words calling hypocrite, wouldn't you feel it was an attack.

I can forgive, and I do, but try to see it from my perspective. I don't expect people to side with me, and I even expert a lot of disagreements, but I would at least expect a mutual respect in a Christian forum.
 
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I have to stop you right there. Catholiosm does not not has it ever practiced idolatry. I'm going to address it in two different posts so that it's not overwhelmingly text-heavy. But I think I need to really get into it...

Idolatry comes into play every time Mary or a dead saint is prayed to or besought for favour, or a likeness is bowed to or kissed. These likenesses are no indication of excellence, but misinformation, spiritual error, and downright disobedience to God's word---far from excellence.

The practice is indefensible, despite the many ways it is dressed up and presented.
 
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Idolatry comes into play every time Mary or a dead saint is prayed to or besought for favour, or a likeness is bowed to or kissed. these likenesses are no indication of excellence, but misinformation, spiritual error, and downright disobedience to God's word---far from excellence.

Euphemia,
To begin, is God a God of the living or the dead? If the dead, then you are right and I am wrong. If the living, then would the saints be living through eternal life with God in heaven? And if so, should they be called dead saints? And if not, then are they still part of the Body of Christ in heaven? And if so, then would we not ask them who are now closer to God than ever to intercede in prayer to God? Remember, Catholics don't pray TO saints or Mary, we include them in our prayer TO God.

I have to point out again -- is honor of anyone other than God always worship? I'd say no. The Bible says no as it tells us to honor our father and mother in Ephesians 6:2 and your wife in 1 Peter 3:7. This is the idea of Marian honor -- not going above Her son and not even measuring it up to worship, but having a love for her because you have a far greater love for her Son.

Christ is the most loving person -- we can't even fathom. And He was even able to translate this love as a son would to his mother, as He did with Mary. We don't love Jesus because of Mary, but rather, we love Mary because we love Jesus -- in fact, we love her because we WORSHIP Jesus. Just as we honor our parents because we worship God, not vice-versa.

The earliest Christians had a Marian devotion because of their worship of Christ. Irenaeus, a student of Paul, wrote about Mary as "the new Eve" explaining the parallels between Eve's disobedience and Mary's obedience, especially with Jesus being the New Adam, fulfilling what Adam couldn't.

When I was in an Evangelical exploring Catholicism, I had a tough time with the term "Queen of Heaven" because it sounded so blatantly idolatrous. Only God is King and no man can serve to masters. I recognized Mary's importance, but I refused to call her Queen of Heaven...

...but I then learned what the title means, and it isn't in regards to a second master, but as a means of recognizing her Son's kingship. Jesus is the King of heaven. He reigns over all. And just as David's mother was the queen mother of Israel, Christ's mother is the queen mother of heaven. I realized it is not blasphemous at all. In fact, it is a wonderful term that ends in directing us to Jesus. And overall, that is Mary's role to the Church -- not directing to herself, but directing us to Christ. This is the importance of John 2:1-5 -- Mary will always tell us to go to her Son and do what He says.

If you still cannot agree with including Christ's mother, then I leave you to your thoughts, but when rejecting Catholics and other Christians groups for it, recognizing what we mean when we say we honor her rather than only criticizing a faulty concept.
 
Mitspa - you really should be very careful of your mudslinging.
"And the rape of children is a sad truth, that relates directly to the godliness of your supposed faith. "
There is no shortage of child rape amongst you protestants either.
The Catholic Church catches the most heat because we're the most visible.
 
And the rape of children is a sad truth, that relates directly to the godliness of your supposed faith.

I must have overlooked this statement.
This is the same argument Atheists have against the Catholic Church itself. How many times have I heard "Oh, you're a Catholic? So you condone pedophiles and rapists?"

Meanwhile, they misunderstand Church teaching and decide to look at faults of human beings. The Church is not the clergy. The Church is a magisterium, and directly teaches against unjust violence, against pedophilia, against rape, etc. etc.

If you are throwing out this strawman argument in regards of how the Church dealt with it in the mid-20th century, then you need to also review how EVERY organization handled it -- it was the given counseling to everyone; transfer the aggressor. The board of education did this (and still do in some places). The NFL did this. The UMC did this. Does it forgive? No. But the Catholic Church was the first to step up and say "This is a terrible way of dealing with this. Something needs to be done here and the priests who abuse need to be dealt with the right way, not just transferring where they can do this again." This was especially proposed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, better known as Pope Benedict XVI -- it's what led to his election as pope.

Anyone who uses this argument doesn't know what they're talking about, and even sadder, doesn't know what the Church is. And when I say that, I don't just mean the Catholic Church, I mean even if they believe Christ founded a Church--Catholic or not--they don't know what that means.
 
Euphemia,
To begin, do you believe that God is a God of the living or the dead? If the dead, then you are right and I am wrong. If the living, then would the saints be living through eternal life with God in heaven? And if so, should they be called dead saints? And if not, then are they still part of the Body of Christ in heaven? And if so, then would we not ask them who are now closer to God than ever to intercede in prayer to God? Remember, Catholics don't pray TO saints or Mary, we include them in our prayer TO God.

I have to point out again -- is honor of anyone other than God always worship? I'd say no. The Bible says no as it tells us to honor our father and mother in Ephesians 6:2 and your wife in 1 Peter 3:7. This is the idea of Marian honor -- not going above Her son and not even measuring it up to worship, but having a love for her because you have a far greater love for her Son.

Christ is the most loving person -- we can't even fathom. And He was even able to translate this love as a son would to his mother, as He did with Mary. We don't love Jesus because of Mary, but rather, we love Mary because we love Jesus -- in fact, we love her because we WORSHIP Jesus. Just as we honor our parents because we worship God, not vice-versa.

The earliest Christians had a Marian devotion because of their worship of Christ. Irenaeus, a student of Paul, wrote about Mary as "the new Eve" explaining the parallels between Eve's disobedience and Mary's obedience, especially with Jesus being the New Adam, fulfilling what Adam couldn't.

When I was in an Evangelical exploring Catholicism, I had a tough time with the term "Queen of Heaven" because it sounded so blatantly idolatrous. Only God is King and no man can serve to masters. I recognized Mary's importance, but I refused to call her Queen of Heaven...

...but I then learned what the title means, and it isn't in regards to a second master, but as a means of recognizing her Son's kingship. Jesus is the King of heaven. He reigns over all. And just as David's mother was the queen mother of Israel, Christ's mother is the queen mother of heaven. I realized it is not blasphemous at all. In fact, it is a wonderful term that ends in directing us to Jesus. And overall, that is Mary's role to the Church -- not directing to herself, but directing us to Christ. This is the importance of John 2:1-5 -- Mary will always tell us to go to her Son and do what He says.

If you still cannot agree with including Christ's mother, then I leave you to your thoughts, but when rejecting Catholics and other Christians groups for it, recognizing what we mean when we say we honor her rather than only criticizing a faulty concept.

There is no excuse, no matter how palatable you try to make it, to pray to anyone other than the One who is there as our ONLY mediator between God and man. Dead saints have no ear for you. They are busy enjoying their reward and being in the presence of God.

As for "Queen of Heaven"---there is no such thing other than a pagan goddess that Jeremiah referred to. Elevating and inflating and ROMANTICIZING Mary beyond what she actually is, which is a sinner saved by grace, used by God for a particular blessed purpose, which she was available for, and which we should be also, is sin. She is my sister in Christ, just like all other women who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are my sisters.

She doesn't tell us anything---Holy Spirit does that job.
 
There is no excuse, no matter how palatable you try to make it, to pray to anyone other than the One who is there as our ONLY mediator between God and man. Dead saints have no ear for you. They are busy enjoying their reward and being in the presence of God.

As for "Queen of Heaven"---there is no such thing other than a pagan goddess that Jeremiah referred to. Elevating and inflating and ROMANTICIZING Mary beyond what she actually is, which is a sinner saved by grace, used by God for a particular blessed purpose, which she was available for, and which we should be also, is sin. She is my sister in Christ, just like all other women who receive Jesus Christ as Saviour are my sisters.

She doesn't tell us anything---Holy Spirit does that job.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the only one that truly does that. I am not disagreeing with that.

Is there only one mediator between God and man? YES! It is Christ! But does that mean we should not intercede in prayer for others or ask others to intercede for us? No--the Bible explicitly says this in 1 Timothy 2:1 and James 5:16 -- to pray for one another and confess to one another. That is intercession, is it not? This is the meaning of involving Mary and saints with prayer to God.

But because you said you believe God is a God of the dead, then this is why you cannot accept this. But I argue against this too. God is not dead nor a God of THE dead. You will find this in Luke 20:38.

Your perspective is not only wrong, it defies scripture very blatantly.
 
Yes, the Holy Spirit is the only one that truly does that. I am not disagreeing with that.

He needs no help.

Is there only one mediator between God and man? YES! It is Christ! But does that mean we should not intercede in prayer for others or ask others to intercede for us? No--the Bible explicitly says this in 1 Timothy 2:1 and James 5:16 -- to pray for one another and confess to one another. That is intercession, is it not? This is the meaning of involving Mary and saints with prayer to God.

But because you said you believe God is a God of the dead, then this is why you cannot accept this. But I argue against this too. God is not dead nor a God of THE dead. You will find this in Luke 20:38.

Your perspective is not only wrong, it defies scripture very blatantly.

We are called to intercede for one another. That is our job as believers. We do it here in this life on earth as part of our ministry.

Speaking to and begging a dead saint to hear you is futile. Saints are not omnipresent, nor omniscient, nor omnipotent. They have no authority or power to respond to you.

What Catholics believe is a religious fairy tale in this regard. Your perspective is tainted by the evil one, who loves to get in there and stir up religious nonsense---anything that will take away from Jesus. The ignorant and religious fall for it. You defy scripture and most of all, you defy God in this.
 
He needs no help.

I didn't say He needs help, I said we ask others to pray for us. Haven't you ever asked others to pray for you? Maybe a friend or a pastor?

We are called to intercede for one another. That is our job as believers. We do it here in this life on earth as part of our ministry.

Speaking to and begging a dead saint to hear you is futile. Saints are not omnipresent, nor omniscient, nor omnipotent. They have no authority or power to respond to you.

We don't regard the saints as gods. That would be silly. We recognize they are in the presence of God. Their measurement of time is not earthly.

What Catholics believe is a religious fairy tale in this regard. Your perspective is tainted by the evil one, who loves to get in there and stir up religious nonsense---anything that will take away from Jesus. The ignorant and religious fall for it. You defy scripture and most of all, you defy God in this.

My perspective is tainted by the evil one? I'm not the one who believes that God is of the dead. I'm not the one who believes heaven is a place of the dead. I'm not the one who discard's the mother of Christ as a mere incubator for Jesus. I'm not the one who is so full of pride that I can do whatever I want and ignore a magisterium altogether (whether you believe it is Catholic or not, it still exists and you spit in God's face whenever you claim you don't need it).

Would you ever call your mom nothing more than an incubator for you? Or your friend's mom? If not, why would you even begin to do this for the mother of Our Lord? Again, I am very sorry, but you are drastically misguided.
 
I didn't say He needs help, I said we ask others to pray for us. Haven't you ever asked others to pray for you? Maybe a friend or a pastor?

Living people, yes, but never dead people. We are not to be communicating with the dead.

We don't regard the saints as gods. That would be silly. We recognize they are in the presents of God. Their measurement of time is not earthly.

You do if you expect them to hear you when you pray to them and ask them to do your bidding.

My perspective is tainted by the evil one? I'm not the one who believes that God is of the dead. I'm not the one who believes heaven is a place of the dead. I'm not the one who discard's the mother of Christ as a mere incubator for Jesus. I'm not the one who is so full of pride that I can do whatever I want and ignore a magisterium altogether (whether you believe it is Catholic or not, it still exists and you spit in God's face whenever you claim you don't need it).

Yes, talking to dead saints is futile. They cannot hear you. You have been told by God that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God. Speak to Him. It is a slap in His face to bypass Him for a dead human being. Your prayers fall at your feet when you address anyone other than Him.

No, we have no need for a magisterium.
 
Living people, yes, but never dead people. We are not to be communicating with the dead.



You do if you expect them to hear you when you pray to them and to do your bidding.



Yes, talking to dead saints is futile. They cannot hear you. You have been told by God that Jesus is the one mediator between man and God. Speak to Him. It is a slap in His face to bypass Him for a dead human being. Your prayers fall at your feet when you address anyone other than Him.

No, we have no need for a magisterium.

Oh boy. I don't know how many times I've said, verbatim, asking others to pray for us is not bypassing God. We pray to God -- every prayer said is directed up to God, in worship of Him, in recognition of Him.

You can say it all you want, but you know nothing of what Catholicism teaches. This is why you claim you read the Catechism (which I highly doubt you did -- I suspect you googled parts of it), and still have no doubt what it says.

Please find me one verse that says God is a god of the dead. Find one verse that says asking others to pray for one another is wrong. Find me one verse that says saints in heaven are dead. Find me one section in the catechism that says the Church says to pray to Mary.

Why do you think you have no need for a magisterium?
 
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