And?
Is fear a sin?
- Thread starter Mykuhl
- Start date
Job said a lot, specifically what do you think God was referring to?
I don't know. That is what I am trying to resolve. I assumed He meant in general, but maybe not.
Yea it's called sin nature and the natural man and God has given us His way to delete this type of behaviour from oour beings too !!
Thank God !!
And what? He repented of being bitter in complaint.
God was talking of Job's words at the beginning of the chapters 40 and 42:
Job 40:1-5 (KJV)
Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct [him]? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. Then Job answered the LORD, and said, Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
Job 42:1-6 (KJV)
Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every [thing], and [that] no thought can be withholden from thee. Who [is] he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor [myself], and repent in dust and ashes.
He repented of his self-righteousness which God called him out on it:
Job 40:7-8 (KJV)
Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
If this is true, and it is, what started this entire episode? What gave the devil the right to attack Job?
Satan took on the job of tearing down Job because Job was a righteous man. God allowed Him to do so short of taking his very life. Job came through well without cursing God. He wasn't perfect, but He was still righteous in God's sight.
Well... I disagree, but to each their own. *HUGS*
Ok, I do see this, this is clear. So with that being said...was God referring to what was said about Him apart from this, when He made the statements that Job was speaking what was right about Him?
Well... I disagree, but to each their own. *HUGS*
Please tell me where you disagree. I am interested. Maybe I've missed something?
Job repented and spoke correctly... before God calling him out, he was in self-righteousness saying he didn't deserve it and he was righteous. Maybe a different version will help:
Job 40:7-8 (ESV)
“Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
By Job declaring his innocence was saying the evil that befell him was not right, which is effectively saying "Will you even put God in the wrong? Will you condemn God that you may be in the right?"
Ok... you said:
Job was righteous indeed and the reason why the devil was so interested in him, but, why did he have a RIGHT to do what he did? Not because God allowed it, but because Job allowed it through fear - what the entire thread is about. God set limits. Why is the devil the prince of the power of the air? Because Adam allowed it. God puts boundaries and when we stray, the devil has a legal right to attack. If you eat until you become a fat diabetic, is God allowing Satan to inflict the disease on us? If someone drinks until their liver is a solid rock, is that God allowing Satan to inflict the consequences? No, it's us. Job admitted he had an obsessive fear his children would sin. Instead of praying for them and surrendering them in faith to God he chose to sacrifice over and over and over for them, which did no good, and happened just as he had feared. He said himself he was not at peace, nor quiet, nor at rest on this matter. After all that happened to him, he held his tongue so as not to sin against God for what happened to him by cursing God. Yet he still blamed God by declaring his innocence. What is not done in faith is sin, Romans 14:23. Job is a great book to learn tons of stuff, but the most important reason is never taught - God is righteous and perfect and holy and doesn't allow His enemies to do anything, we do. That's why I specifically pointed out what Elihu stated:
Job 36:18(KJV)
Because [there is] wrath, [beware] lest he take thee away with [his] stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.
It's a legal matter... "satan" is a legal term to mean "prosecutor". We have to go into God's courts to proclaim to the Judge that satan is wrong and do enter through the gates with thanksgiving, Psalms 100:4 and proclaim His promises for us! You don't get what you don't ask for...
Hi Mykuhl,
I am going to try and answer this question and a few others in this reply.
First I want to paint a few pictures about a few scenes or seasons found in Job and his life.
Job starts out and we learn he is walking in thee Blessing of the Lord. This is where all of us are intended to be living. In this place "Thee Blessing of Thee Lord" could also be called our piece of the garden of Eden. This is when we are living fruitful and prosperous and victorious lives. Every area of our lives are bearing much fruit and life is GOOD !! This where Job was when all of this began. Job probably did not even grasp that he had a tempter ( satan ) for he was living under the Blessing. However when all this was said and done he knew good and well.
Now then satan's motive here was to steal this blessing from job just like he had tried with adam and failed terribly. The devil wanted this power or the blessing and began trying to get job to curse God and die and in doing this he the devil thought he could then have this blessing or power he saw in job's life. Nothings changed for the devil is still doing the same thing with Christians today but has gotten much better and deceiving people over these many years.
Now lets back up to satan wanting job to curse God. The devil knew he would have to get jobs mind and heart away from God or " SIN AGAINST GOD by cursing God" but job never did do this in all that he suffered and went through. This is why God says job did not sin for this entire situation was created by satan to steal, kill and destroy job's life and gain the Blessing which satan viewed as power he did not have.
Ok now lets look at several key points in this.
Job tells us in his own words where he messed up and how he opened the door to satan. This same way applies to every single born again Christian and every person alive on this earth. The problem is most Christians simply will not except this even though it has been this way from before God spoke and created this earth. Words do have power and do give life and death. This is not some little sunday school saying. Just as our actions and re-actions prepare the things in and around our lives. We do not have to believe this but it still and always will work this way.
Real quick for I know this is longer then I had thought.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God
This is not just so we learn scriptures but how we are to live 24/7/365
This enables Gods word and way to develop us into walking in His ways and in His Blessing or our garden.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Chris
This is telling us as well how to walk in His kingdom and live a victorious life. One key here is the word THOUGHTS......alone thoughts are less dangerous unless you meditate on the wrong ones to much and then they begin to form how you think and act and believe.
This is why it says take EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE....don't even speak them until you have sifted them and weighed them against the written wortd of God or another words..what true meaning do these words have ? Bless or tear down ? Hurt or Build up and so forth.
This is also why Jesus told His disciples " Take No Thought SAYING" How do you take a thought ? By saying it.....by releasing it into action or being by giving it power to bless or curse.
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh
Our goal is to be perfected so much that we walk only in the spirit and not the flesh. This simply means walking under His ways or way of living. We then only are speaking His words which have NO doubt or fear or worry and so forth.
Now then job forgot this or turned his back to it and gave way to the pressure that satan was placing on him and this was through- Fear-Doubt and unbelief. Job knew how to walk up right and Holy before God and his life was proof of that but job did not Take His thoughts captive for he gave way to them or he acted on them by speaking them and doing things issued from his thoughts that satan was pressuring him with.
Now Job shows us this or what he had done
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
This shows us that job himself tells us that he took his eyes of of God and His ways which kept job in Thee Blessing of Thee Lord or our garden place in this earth.
He began speaking out of the pressure satan was applying to him stemming from fear for his children and in doing so began to speak fear which pulls you from Faith to doubt and unbelief for our actions and reactions dictate to what happens in our lives more then most Christians will admit. This goes back to being perfected into His ways seen in. Romans 12:2 and 2Corinthians 10:4-5 and of course Galatians 5:16 and remembering saying is putting a thought or word into being or giving it permission to do something.
That is where Job messed up big time which then gives right to satan to come in and set up shop and steal, kill and destroy.
One last point..........satan goes to God to convince, or try to get God to hand Job over to him. People do not take the time to grasp meanings of KEY WORDS but then again they also fail to grasp or are willing to except that Gods Kingdom operates by Kingdom Rules and words and actions have been set into motion or set to function in a certain way and it does not take believing this in order for them to function. They function because God said they would.
Look at .........What God really said to Job. God started His answer with the word BEHOLD......meaning....... in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
Now why did God give such an answer to satans request for God to give him permission to attack job ? BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT LIE so he had to speak the truth to satan.
What was this truth ?
God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
Then once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.
But in all of this Job did not sin ? The sin of this topic is still the same thing as in the beginning of this.........Job never cursed God. Job said a lot of stupid and dumb things BUT he never cursed God as satan had planned for him to all along. Then in the end God sends in the Calvary, a Preacher boy to talk some sense back into job.......I enjoy happy endings like this.
I hope this helps to answer your questions....
God Bless
Jim
Thank you Jim.Hi Mykuhl,
I am going to try and answer this question and a few others in this reply.
First I want to paint a few pictures about a few scenes or seasons found in Job and his life.
Job starts out and we learn he is walking in thee Blessing of the Lord. This is where all of us are intended to be living. In this place "Thee Blessing of Thee Lord" could also be called our piece of the garden of Eden. This is when we are living fruitful and prosperous and victorious lives. Every area of our lives are bearing much fruit and life is GOOD !! This where Job was when all of this began. Job probably did not even grasp that he had a tempter ( satan ) for he was living under the Blessing. However when all this was said and done he knew good and well.
Now then satan's motive here was to steal this blessing from job just like he had tried with adam and failed terribly. The devil wanted this power or the blessing and began trying to get job to curse God and die and in doing this he the devil thought he could then have this blessing or power he saw in job's life. Nothings changed for the devil is still doing the same thing with Christians today but has gotten much better and deceiving people over these many years.
Now lets back up to satan wanting job to curse God. The devil knew he would have to get jobs mind and heart away from God or " SIN AGAINST GOD by cursing God" but job never did do this in all that he suffered and went through. This is why God says job did not sin for this entire situation was created by satan to steal, kill and destroy job's life and gain the Blessing which satan viewed as power he did not have.
Ok now lets look at several key points in this.
Job tells us in his own words where he messed up and how he opened the door to satan. This same way applies to every single born again Christian and every person alive on this earth. The problem is most Christians simply will not except this even though it has been this way from before God spoke and created this earth. Words do have power and do give life and death. This is not some little sunday school saying. Just as our actions and re-actions prepare the things in and around our lives. We do not have to believe this but it still and always will work this way.
Real quick for I know this is longer then I had thought.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God
This is not just so we learn scriptures but how we are to live 24/7/365
This enables Gods word and way to develop us into walking in His ways and in His Blessing or our garden.
2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4... For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to pulling down strong holds
5... Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Chris
This is telling us as well how to walk in His kingdom and live a victorious life. One key here is the word THOUGHTS......alone thoughts are less dangerous unless you meditate on the wrong ones to much and then they begin to form how you think and act and believe.
This is why it says take EVERY THOUGHT CAPTIVE....don't even speak them until you have sifted them and weighed them against the written wortd of God or another words..what true meaning do these words have ? Bless or tear down ? Hurt or Build up and so forth.
This is also why Jesus told His disciples " Take No Thought SAYING" How do you take a thought ? By saying it.....by releasing it into action or being by giving it power to bless or curse.
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh
Our goal is to be perfected so much that we walk only in the spirit and not the flesh. This simply means walking under His ways or way of living. We then only are speaking His words which have NO doubt or fear or worry and so forth.
Now then job forgot this or turned his back to it and gave way to the pressure that satan was placing on him and this was through- Fear-Doubt and unbelief. Job knew how to walk up right and Holy before God and his life was proof of that but job did not Take His thoughts captive for he gave way to them or he acted on them by speaking them and doing things issued from his thoughts that satan was pressuring him with.
Now Job shows us this or what he had done
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
This shows us that job himself tells us that he took his eyes of of God and His ways which kept job in Thee Blessing of Thee Lord or our garden place in this earth.
He began speaking out of the pressure satan was applying to him stemming from fear for his children and in doing so began to speak fear which pulls you from Faith to doubt and unbelief for our actions and reactions dictate to what happens in our lives more then most Christians will admit. This goes back to being perfected into His ways seen in. Romans 12:2 and 2Corinthians 10:4-5 and of course Galatians 5:16 and remembering saying is putting a thought or word into being or giving it permission to do something.
That is where Job messed up big time which then gives right to satan to come in and set up shop and steal, kill and destroy.
One last point..........satan goes to God to convince, or try to get God to hand Job over to him. People do not take the time to grasp meanings of KEY WORDS but then again they also fail to grasp or are willing to except that Gods Kingdom operates by Kingdom Rules and words and actions have been set into motion or set to function in a certain way and it does not take believing this in order for them to function. They function because God said they would.
Look at .........What God really said to Job. God started His answer with the word BEHOLD......meaning....... in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
Now why did God give such an answer to satans request for God to give him permission to attack job ? BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT LIE so he had to speak the truth to satan.
What was this truth ?
God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
Then once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin with after job with vengeance.
But in all of this Job did not sin ? The sin of this topic is still the same thing as in the beginning of this.........Job never cursed God. Job said a lot of stupid and dumb things BUT he never cursed God as satan had planned for him to all along. Then in the end God sends in the Calvary, a Preacher boy to talk some sense back into job.......I enjoy happy endings like this.
I hope this helps to answer your questions....
God Bless
Jim
So, then what you are saying is that Job did not sin by fearing and doubting God, and by blaming Him for his afflictions? That he did not speak wrongly of God for blaming Him for what he was going through? I just want to have the point cleared up because I am still hung up on why God said in chapter 42 that Job spoke what was right about Him, if he blamed Him for what happened to him.
Ok... you said:
Job was righteous indeed and the reason why the devil was so interested in him, but, why did he have a RIGHT to do what he did? Not because God allowed it, but because Job allowed it through fear - what the entire thread is about. God set limits. Why is the devil the prince of the power of the air? Because Adam allowed it. God puts boundaries and when we stray, the devil has a legal right to attack. If you eat until you become a fat diabetic, is God allowing Satan to inflict the disease on us? If someone drinks until their liver is a solid rock, is that God allowing Satan to inflict the consequences? No, it's us. Job admitted he had an obsessive fear his children would sin. Instead of praying for them and surrendering them in faith to God he chose to sacrifice over and over and over for them, which did no good, and happened just as he had feared. He said himself he was not at peace, nor quiet, nor at rest on this matter. After all that happened to him, he held his tongue so as not to sin against God for what happened to him by cursing God. Yet he still blamed God by declaring his innocence. What is not done in faith is sin, Romans 14:23. Job is a great book to learn tons of stuff, but the most important reason is never taught - God is righteous and perfect and holy and doesn't allow His enemies to do anything, we do. That's why I specifically pointed out what Elihu stated:
Job 36:18(KJV)
Because [there is] wrath, [beware] lest he take thee away with [his] stroke: then a great ransom cannot deliver thee.
It's a legal matter... "satan" is a legal term to mean "prosecutor". We have to go into God's courts to proclaim to the Judge that satan is wrong and do enter through the gates with thanksgiving, Psalms 100:4 and proclaim His promises for us! You don't get what you don't ask for...
Thanks for your explanation. I do believe, however, that God considered Job innocent and said, "He is the finest man in all the earth. He is blameless—a man of complete integrity. He fears God and stays away from evil. And he has maintained his integrity, even though you urged me to harm him without cause." (Job 2:3) He passed the harsh tests.
Your Welcome Mykuhl,
As far as sinning against God, no job did not by speaking and acting on fear and worry.
How many people today in this world blame God or think it is God who causes their troubles and problems in life ? Do you think God is holding this against them ?
No He is not but He is saddened by the lack of understanding in their hearts concerning to how much He loves them and would not harm them.
I hope this makes some sense of this for you.
God Bless my Friend
Jim
Mykuhl I will post this here and perhaps it might open up some eyes of others as well.
This has been God's plan all along- To get us walking and living under His Blessing or another words in our Garden. He desires that we live a Prosperous life from victory to victory. He has given us the exact instructions that we need to do so. The problem in this is that man fouls it up with his own desires and ways of doing things and not accepting what God has NOT only said but put into motion or being. Hence all the doctrines and all the denominations and fighting over what is of God and what is not of God.
Pastors who have been called to try and get the body of Christ to grasp a hold of this comes under fire. Now why is this ? Simply because our enemy the devil does NOT want us to live like this for once we realise this he the devil knows we will exercise our authority over him and he is finished.
Now when we live in such a way as He has purposed all of us to live, then and only then will our lives demand an explanation, which simply means that those around us that do not know God or know Him in this manner will see His Glory all around us. They can not only see it but feel it and even though they do not know what it is, well they want it and then it is our duty or better said Privilege and Honor to bring them and God together.
We are to live a Blessed and Prosperous life bringing all Glory unto Him and taking His love and this Blessing to those who have not. It is quite simple really but we tend to make it hard. Not God but we do this by simply not having the Faith as a child and Believing what God has not only said to us but already has placed into effect.
Why is this Faith as a child so important ? Simple really. A child will believe what you tell them. You can convince a child that if they do not go to sleep at bed time a monster that lives in the closet comes out and spanks them for not sleeping and breaks their toys. A child will believe this to the point they will argue this with any one and no one can change their mind.
It is this way in His kingdom. We must learn to have this same type of Faith Concerning Gods every written word. We must believe to the point we always act only in the way He has told us to act and react. This includes believing His promises and ways.
God loves and adores us. He desires we believe in Him and the name of His Son Jesus and walk in His ways. Why does God desire this ? Well it is NOT because He is a control freak but because He Love's Us and wants us to be blessed and wanting nothing. Wanting nothing ? Yep wanting nothing for our Shepard Lord Jesus Christ has supplied all we will ever need by shedding of His Blood and putting into motion a Brand NEW and Better Covenant with God Him self. Gods word is meant for us to Love and Adore and Cherish and Honor with Respect and Integrity.
How do we do this ? Simply by obeying His every word and surrendering our lives unto Him and His ways. BELIEVING in what He says and then Putting forth into being by action His very ways or Word. This is Loving the Father our Creator and our God with a pure Heart and true Obedience unto Him. Look it is UP TO US to either live a Prosperous and Blessed Victorious Life in Christ or not. This is NOT up to GOD any more then if we surrender our lives unto Him and become Born again New Creations in Christ. It is OUR Choice.
God is true to His word. ALWAYS.......He swore and oath By His own Name.
He will not change this. Make the right choices and reap right results. It is that simple. The right Choice is ALWAYS His word or Way of doing things and this includes Faith like a child or another words, If God said it then that is just the way it is and will be. Settle this in your own heart today.
God Loves YOU and desires a life for you Greater then anything you could ever desire for your self. THEE FATHER LOVES YOU !!
GOD BLESS
Jim