Is abortion a game changer?

Discussion in 'Evangelism' started by Michael Douthat, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. #1 Michael Douthat, Feb 1, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2015
    I have been a Christian over 40 years and I've generally had the love of Christ for the unsaved. I was able to look past a person's sin because, as we all know, the unsaved are worldly and follow the ways of the world.

    Most of their sins I could look past when looking for opportunities to evangelize. I knew that if they ever accepted Christ, all their sins would be forgiven and they would have the power of the Holy Spirit to reject temptation coming at them from the world.

    I think most of us who do evangelism can look past the main sins of an unsaved person but I also think most of us are a bit hesitant to even attempt to evangelize a murderer or someone who sexually abuses children. We know that God can forgive all sins but we generally look upon some people as beyond help. Such is my problem with those who support abortion on demand. I truly believe, with all my heart, that abortion is murder and that it is no different that walking up to new born baby on the street and stabbing it in the heart. Murder is murder, whether you can see the victim or not.

    Now, I also know that these people who support abortion have somehow had their conscience burned so that they consider a baby in the womb to be just organic matter and not yet a human being. It's a ridiculous argument but one that Satan has convinced millions of people to accept.

    My question is how do I love these people? I am barely able to tolerate them not only for their stand on abortion but also their stand on homosexuality and the atheistic agenda that is slowly destroying this nation's founding principles. I see them as a cancer on our society, without any moral fiber and totally blinded by Satan. Look at some of our congress men and women and tell me they don't want to make you throw up with their insane agendas.

    One part of me says there is hope for them but another part of me looks at the statistics and realizes that the hope is one in a million. It is a known fact that the older an unsaved person gets, the less likely they are to turn to Christ. I have trouble seeing any hope for them. Their hearts are so hardened that it would take a lifetime of chipping away with a chisel to get to the soft part.

    How do others deal with this? Do you have trouble loving or even liking these people? When I look at a pro-abortionist, I see a baby killer. I see the blood of 56 million babies on his or her hands. Christians of my generation have fought the fight for innocent children and continue to lose the fight to those who support abortion. Are these people "children of Satan"? The Bible seems to indicate they may be:
    1John 3:9-10 "Children of God
    9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

    I know I need to be careful here not to render "final judgement" on anyone. Only God through Christ will render final judgement. We, however, make daily decisions on being a evangelist. After being a Christian for decades, I have concluded that time is limited and I want to spend my time evangelizing those who have an open heart. You know the kind of people I'm talking about. Those whose hearts are not hard. Those who are considering their relationship to God and don't assume they are saved because they go to church or do good works. Those who ask probing questions and have enough humility to listen to what Christians have to say. Aren't these the people we need to reach out to? Missionaries are successful in their ministry because the people have an open heart and are searching for answers.

    Waggles likes this.
  2. I am involved in a prison fellowship. I meet with those people you mentioned (murderers, rapists, etc.). It has come full-circle for me, as I have been incarcerated myself, many times.

    The one component that is missing in prisons is LOVE. There is no love there.

    To answer the OP; the "game changer" is not abortion. The game changer is LOVE. And God is love. Unconditional.

    Do you have any idea of the power you wield for the kingdom, under the authority of the King, when you love unconditionally?
    SHB, Cturtle, Where is the Messiah and 4 others say Amen and like this.
  3. Hi Michael. You reminding me of Jonah ;).

    I agree with your view on abortion! It is up there with the worst of sins. Are they more lost? I don't think so. I think those who have one foot in church and one foot out are more lost.

    Rev 3: 15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

    At least we know they are lost. When it is their time for karma and we deliver mercy and love = instant conversion.
    Michael Douthat likes this.
  4. „Do not dare judge them hard lest you wear their skin.“
    Where is the Messiah and Michael Douthat say Amen and like this.
  5. The other day, I read these verses and they really struck me....

    Revelation 2:13
    "... and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied MY faith,...."

    2nd Timothy 2:13
    "If we are faithless,
    He remains faithful;
    He cannot deny Himself."

    Whose faith do we rest on? Our own faithfulness? No... We rest on the word of JESUS' faithfulness towards us!

    Is abortion a game changer? In the lives of the women who get abortions - absolutely... Frequently, it drives them into depths of despair that we can hardly imagine..... It's frequently the sort of thing that drives them TO Jesus if we don't drive them away in the process.

    That's why compassion and love is so important....
    Michael Douthat and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  6. To begin, God bless you for not being indifferent on this subject. Abortion is one of the worst evils taking place today, and has taken place for centuries.

    You asked how do we love those who are for abortion?

    To begin, understand that so many people who are for it don't know what it actually is. They've been fed so many lies about it that what they are supporting is not what we know it to be factually. They have been told

    1) that abortion addresses the mother's body when in fact it addresses the fetus's body with the intention to kill it,

    2) that abortion is a right. The right to intervene on someone else's life does not exist -- it is not a right.

    3) They have been told that the fetus isn't a person -- that it only becomes a person much later. This is bad science and theology. I marched a couple of weeks ago at the March for Life, and there were some people that came along to counter the protest by chanting "A baby isn't a baby until it's born -- that's the point!" But that's silly. Many people choose to believe this because they don't want to accept the truth, but many other people actually take their word for it and so see nothing wrong with abortion. To them, it's like an appendectomy.

    But what about those people who actually do support abortion despite knowing what abortion is (disembowelment and dismemberment) and know that the fetus is indeed a human being, albeit in its youngest, most vulnerable stage?

    Being pro-life isn't limited to Christians. There are tons of secular pro-life advocates, and they're core concern is the life of the child. We're glad they come to the rallies and defend the unborn.

    As for us who are Christian and pro-life, we don't stop there. We are not only defending the lives of the unborn because we care about them, but we also care about the mothers, and beyond that, we care about the abortionists. Everyone will die at some point. Satan doesn't love abortion because it kills children. What Satan loves about abortion is that abortion makes murderers out of people. They are committing a grievous sin in their promoting and involvement of abortion. THIS is why we as Christians are so gung-ho about stopping things like this. Not only do we want to protect the lives of the innocent, but we want to try and stop people from becoming aggressor's against God's Word.

    For the people who sought out to kill abortionists, they are falling for half-truths. They miss the point. For protestors who yell and thrash at mothers who abort and abortionists, they miss the point.

    We definitely get upset sometimes -- downright furious even -- at those who think abortion is a good thing. But we must pray that God softens our hearts, that we can look not only at the souls of the unborn, but that we can really look further into the souls of the those who promote and commit murder.
    SHB, Michael Douthat and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  7. It is rather amusing (in an odd sort of way), that if I were to climb a tree and destroy an eagles egg (an unborn eagle) I would be commiting a Federal offense and would be looking at years in prison and thousands of dollars in fines.
    If a woman kills her unborn baby she is being "progressive" and faces no recriminations at all.

    We live in a very messed up world.
    Where is the Messiah, Ravindran, JG27_chili and 3 others say Amen and like this.
  8. It's terrible.
    Well you may think of it this way..those women who are convinced they must abort their babies are deceived. Satan comes to lie, steal and destroy. Jesus said those who harm the little ones ought to have a millstone tied around their neck and be cast into the sea, and those responsible will have to answer to God on judgement day. So leave the vengeance up to Him and rather spread the gospel to those that don't know how much Jesus loves them. He can forgive those people when they repent.
    Michael Douthat likes this.
  9. They are just acting the way they aught to act.

    2 Corinthians 4:4
    In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

    It's alot like a puppy chewing up your shoe when you are away from home. Instinct, his "sin nature" tells him it is okay to chew up this shoe, without a recognition of a master, there is no reason for him not to chew up the shoe, he is blind to the supremacy of the master. If another puppy comes along, with no master, there is nothing stopping him from joining in, and soon it becomes a socially accepted practice.

    Without God, there is no moral fiber, there is no reason for it. All we can do to these people is love them, and present them with the gospel and God's love, because the difference between us and them, is the holy spirit. And we, in the flesh, are no better than they are. We simply just received God's grace before they did, as God's plan was.
  10. "My question is how do I love these people? Do you have trouble loving or even liking these people? When I look at a pro-abortionist, I see a baby killer. I have concluded that time is limited and I want to spend my time evangelizing those who have an open heart. You know the kind of people I'm talking about. Those whose hearts are not hard."
    Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 2Timothy 4: 2-5
    For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 1Corinthians 9:16

    Michael, there is much emotion and personal offence in your heart and reaction to some of these more highly contentious sins and wrongdoings.
    As Spock would say it's the humanness in us. We are emotional beings.
    But, when it comes to issues of salvation and evangelizing we need to put aside our emotions, lest we pick and chose according to our likes and dislikes.
    In the parable of the sower and the seed (Mark 4: 1-20) the seed is broadcast out into the field, and then there are consequences or outcomes. Some fell on stony ground, some fell on shallow soil, and some on good soil and took root.
    Michael, you and I do not know who is stony ground or good soil. Some of the worst murders and rapists, or drug dealers, etc. have been converted by the power of the Gospel and filled with the Holy Spirit, and born again. It is the whole point of Jesus coming into the world to call sinners to repentance (Mark 2: 17).
    Remember the story of David when he was the youngest in the family and Saul was sent to anoint the next king of Israel after Saul. How Jesse presented all the older brothers to Saul and God kept saying no, not this one. Finally, Saul had to ask if there was anybody else left in the family who had been overlooked. David gets called in from being a nobody tending the sheep, the "runt" of the family; and God says to Saul: "Arise, anoint him: for this is he."
    But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. 1Samuel 16:7

    It is our duty to love the unlovable. Not with emotion. But with compassion and mercy for they are in darkness. Only by preaching the gospel of salvation is there any hope for them, and for them to depart from wickedness and embrace Jesus' righteousness. Every person has the right to hear the gospel preached.
    SHB likes this.
  11. I think it is important to ALWAYS remember that it could be you aborting a baby or abusing children. It was only out of God's love and mercy that He saved us while we were yet in our sins.
    Klub likes this.

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