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Irresistible Grace & People "falling Away" From Christianity. How Does This Happen?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Scripture Bird, Jun 22, 2014.

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  1. I met a "woman" who identifies as such when he is actually a pre-op transsexual. We began talking because he saw the tiny dove pendant I had on my necklace and presumed I was Christian.

    Long story short, he said he identified himself now as an atheist. But had formerly been Christian but had fallen away from the faith.

    This got me curious and so here I am.

    When there is such a thing as irresistible grace how does someone fall away? Is it that they were not in grace in the first place? But simply held faith in the institution of Christianity?

    And on that note, when irresistible grace is bestowed by God's predestination through the Holy Spirit, what does that mean as to not only the message of the cross, that Jesus sacrifice saved the whole world, especially those that believe, but for those who are not appointed irresistible grace?

    Does it mean God predestined some people to die unsaved? How does irresistible grace apply when Jesus saved the whole world?

    Thank you for your sincere replies and patience with my questions. Had I not met this young man today I don't think I would have arrived at them. :) God Bless.
  2. Oh boy! That's a touchy subject which undoubtedly will elicit a lot of comments. The verse that came to mind with your first question is:

    Galatians 5:4 (KJV)
    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    The next thing that came to mind was why do you call it "irresistible grace". It's not in the scriptures, so I'm guessing it's some dogma. If it were "irresistible" then everyone would get saved. As to predestination, let's define it:

    G4309 προορίζω proorizo (proh-or-id'-zo) v.
    1. to limit in advance
    2. (figuratively) predetermine
    [from G4253 and G3724]

    G4253 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)
    G4253 πρό pro (proh') prep.
    1. "fore", i.e. in front of, prior to
    2. (figuratively) superior to
    {In the comparative, it retains the same significations}
    [a primary preposition]
    KJV: above, ago, before, or ever

    G3724 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries)
    G3724 ὁρίζω horizo (hor-id'-zo) v.
    1. to mark out or bound ("horizon")
    2. (figuratively) to appoint, decree, specify
    [from G3725]
    KJV: declare, determine, limit, ordain
    Root(s): G3725

    G3725 ὅριον horion (hor'-ee-on) n.
    1. a boundary-line
    2. (by implication) a frontier (region)
    [neuter of a derivative of an apparently primary horos "a bound or limit"]
    KJV: border, coast

    Notice that this word that has become hijacked by Calvinists to mean man has no choice, his destiny is sealed, but in reality it means to set a boundary, to limit in advance. I find this word to be so misunderstood that whole denominations are built by this one word. All it means to me is that God is fully aware of what is going on and sets limits on the ability of evil to grow or rule but when the Holy Spirit is removed, 2 Thess 2:7, the time of the end has come and the devil will unleash the antichrist, 2 Thess 2:8, and God will pour out His wrath. Unlike some, I believe nothing surprises God and He knows the beginning from the end, Rev 1:8; 21:6.

    When one chooses to leave the Lord's blessings, protection, and the like, one does have to wonder if they were just "trying it out" by becoming "christian" in name only, having never truly experienced God Almighty. Then there is this curious verse:

    Revelation 3:5 (KJV)
    He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    In order to be blotted out, one must be in the book of Life to begin with. In the end, only God can judge one's heart.
  3. Satan fell from God's grace and he actually lived in heaven with him.
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  4. Just because God knows what you will chose doesn't mean He made the choice for you.
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  5. To lighten the mood before it gets ugly :D

  6. I love John MacArthur, even though he doesn't believe in the gifts of the spirit.
  7. That doesn't make sense. :( If God foreknew my life before the womb, as scripture tells us, then I can not do anything but follow his divine will and plan that was predestined for me.

    And to be clear, this thread wasn't started so as to get into an ugly discourse. It was started so as to elaborate on a curiosity that was generated by a discussion I had off-line with someone on the topic posted.

    If someone thinks this is going to turn ugly please I beseech you don't participate and make it so. That isn't the purpose here.
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  8. Yes. And God let him live to become lord of this world and prior to humans being placed upon it. And now he roams the earth like a hungry lion looking for souls to devour because he is our omniscient God's adversary.
  9. :LOL: I love that.

  10. A parent knows when their kid is going off the deep end and knows the outcome. The parent can try to explain to the child what'll happen, but the child does it anyway. This is what God does. Plain and simple. Read my first post on this subject above. The child cannot comprehend beyond the level of thinking they're capable of. When they (or we) choose to do something one way or another, God is aware of it because He knows all things. If we choose not to obey and something goes wrong, is God to blame? Was it's God's desire? Were we predestinated? Not at all. Read the definition and understand, repeant of that wrong thinking.
    Heart_for_Christ likes this.
  11. Yes, I read your posting. Thank you for sharing that here. :)

    I think "irresistible grace" or efficacious grace, is the term arrived at from reading the three scriptures in the book of John.

    John 6:37- 40
    John 6:44-45
    John 6:65

  12. #13 CCW95A, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    Every thing a person thinks, says and every decision they will make in this life are already known by God, before the world began. He already knew what your reaction would be to the gospel after hearing it. He does not make anyone do things they don't want to do. Being armed with this foreknowledge God is able to call and save them even before the creation of the world.

    2Ti 1:8, Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
    2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    We can not do anything without the Lord already knowing in advance what we will do. :)
  13. You being able to witness to this person, even if it was only a short conversation was a God appointment. The Lord guides them who are his to places where they should be at the right time. I see it as God giving this person all the chances to return or come to him for salvation.
    Heart_for_Christ and autumn oddity say Amen and like this.
  14. Once saved always saved. Jesus said John 10:28-29. Also, some people are predestined for damnation (tough concept, but a Biblical one). See 1 Peter 2:8. Regarding those who deny that Jesus is the Christ after hearing the Gospel and being part of a Christian congregation, see 1 John 2:19.
  15. I find it sad to say, but I agree with SergioL
    idk, I just really feel that free will is an illusion. If we sin, Satan's our puppet master and if we do right... it was all God.

    We truly are vessels. .for either God or..satan.

    Again,all my opinions ^~^

    Im gonna go draw now
    SergioL likes this.
  16. Why is it sad to agree with me? :D

    PS: I am just kidding. :ROFLMAO:
  17. Calling one's self Christian does not make it so.
    Nobody is "pre-destined" to go anywhere, people go to Heaven because they accepted God's grace and obeyed His will to the best of their ability, people go to Hell because they follow their own desires.
    No, they can't be plucked out of His hand, but they can jump out of their own free will.
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  18. I was concerned with posting this initially because I didn't want to offend anyone. Now in reading all the marvelous heart felt replies, and the God inspired insight, I feel so blessed to have gone with my heart and posted this thread. (GROUP HUG) Thank you all for your wisdom. I think this thread is going to bless many people . Those here that read it and even those on the net who may find their way to this thread via keywords in search engines.

    God is so great. *happy dance* :LOL:
    Heart_for_Christ, TezriLi and SergioL says Amen and like this.
  19. #20 SergioL, Jun 22, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    Nobody can't be snatched from God's hand. You can't lose your faith because your faith is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, Acts 16:14-15, 2 Timothy 2:25-26). Also, you are not drawn to the Father out of your own will, but out of the Father's will (John 6:44).
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