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Intro to Revelations

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Sep 1, 2011.

  1. 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God [1] gave him to show unto his [2] servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [3] it by his angel unto his servant John; * 2 who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, even of all things that he saw.
    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. (ASV)

    There a large and disconcerting number of Pastors and Lay Preachers that are scared to teach the oft misnamed book, The Revelation of Jesus to His Servant, John. This means there is a serious lack of education, in my opinion, in the Colleges that prepare the Bible Teachers and Pastoral Staff that fills our church buildings and assumes to prepare (Matt. 28:19, 20) the Lost man for Salvation and the Saved Man for his or her Transition into Heaven!

    Any Holy Spirit indwelt Christian will never, and I´ll be bold enough to emphasize, never, die! The fragile, temporary, vessel they are resident in at the moment will expire, but neither I, nor they will ever die! This book, written in the same fashion and manor as the original Bible, the Old Testament, is not and never will be a book of doom for the Saved Man. That, alone, is a sermon by it´s self but Iĺl try to stay on subject here and help you to study the Revelation.

    [1] The opening statement alone should draw the Saved Man and the Bride of the Christ to hunger for understanding of this, last, book of the Holy Scriptures. I do realize that most Saved Men, and Women, have quenched the Holy Spirit so badly that it has become common to see folks say the HS and completely dishonor God but for those of us that have dedicated our lives to the service of God´s wishes, the study of the Revelation should always be on our minds. This, complete, book is given by Father God to Jesus, the Son of God, to send an Angel of God to reveal to us.

    [2]Now we must come to grips with the term ¨shortly¨ when it has the Eternal perspective of Heaven involved. Jesus, in 2Pet. 3:8, left us with; But forget not this one thing, beloved, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Shortly, in a Heavenly perspective could be a couple of days, which to the human and Earthly perspective, is, easily, Two Thousand Years! (Just a foot note: Throughout the scriptures we see that God considers, things in regard to perfection, in sevens.) It was about 4 days when Jesus came to die for us and it has been about 2 days (Heaven´s time) since He ascended. That leaves us, just about ready for the One Thousand Year (The final day) reign of Christ and the Bride on the Earth before God destroys the Earth with Fire. That puts the Seven Year (Earth years) Tribulation Period and the Rapture, right at our front door and knocking to enter!

    [3] John, loving God and willing to die for Him is honored, among men, by God, to bring this to you and me. Can you afford to ignore it?

    And finally, verse three. If you read or, and, you hear these words, to meditate on and to consider them, you are blessed by God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Do you honestly believe you can afford to not read and meditate on these words from the heart and the vision of God?
  2. Bill,
    The Revelation is the ONLY book of the Scriptures in which the reader is promised a "blessing".

    Those who say it is too hard to understand or has too many symbols simply has not taken the time to do the study required to receive the blessing promised.

    I have and I did!!!!
  3. Major...AMEN!!

    I teach the Grumpy Old Men´s class (GOM) and we normally follow the SBC Quarterly but in my class is an ordained Deacon a former Pastor that does Interim work in his later years and they and all the class wanted to do the study and I agree, there will be more for me to learn and of that I am certain! I feel deeply for those that refuse to teach and to study this book.

    I am never dogmatic in my teaching here, as I am on many points, because prophecy is always 20/20 in hindsight but to begi to understand this book is indeed a great blessing.
  4. Hi Bill you brave man :).

    I am painfully aware that whilst my understanding of Revelation accords with what is written it does not accord with the beliefs of many in the wider Christian community. People have a tendency to argue with me a lot and I don't want that tendency to hijack your thread so this comment is for you and I will not enter into debate with others here about it but it is something I know you will think about and I hope others here will also.

    It has to do with your observations about the 7 day Sabbath cycle being a model for the history of the world in terms of a day being a 1,000 years. It is a valid concept even though we have to be very careful that in applying it we do not contradict what is written in the Lord's word. It is something we always must be careful not to do with any theology we come up with or are inclined to believe. The comparison however is valid because it is also used in Hebrews 3-4 in relation to the Lord's rest into which only the believers enter.

    BUT the thing I want to draw your attention to is Hebrews 4 and in particular to Hebrews 4:8 . In speaking of the Lord's rest Hebrews makes it abundantly clear that it is an eternal rest and that there is no other "day" after it. This also accords with ALL references to the Sabbath. For 6 days He created the world and on the 7th day He rested from all His work. For 6 days we are to work and on the 7th we rest. UNDERSTAND the significance of the fact that there is NO 8th Day. The rest the Lord speaks of in Hebrews is the ETERNAL rest we have in Heaven, not earth. There is NO 8th day.

    If you are applying the 1,000 years of history represents one day of the Sabbath cycle ( and I am NOT saying that is not a valid thought) you need to appreciate a very important fact. On that basis the earth only has 6,000 years of history, not 7,000. On that basis the rest of the Lord begins at the END of the 6th day not the 7th. There is no 8th day on which the believers ONLY enter the rest of the Lord. As Hebrews 4:8 points out the lord's rest has no end. There is no other day after we enter the Lord's rest and the Lord rested at the END of the 6 th day, not the 7th. The Bible does NOT SAY the Lord rested for a day (or 1,000 years) but that He rested from all that He had done. He rested on the 7th day, a day which has no evening, a day which has no end for there is no 8th day to end it.

    If you are looking for when the Earth will end and we will find our rest in Heaven you must look to the end of the 6th day. If you are equating each 1,000 years to one day the world has only 6,000 years of history before it ceases to exist - not 7,000 years. And as you said 6,000 years are nearly up!!!

    As I said you seem to be a person who will think and ponder this thing and that is what I offer it to you for. Hopefully others here might also.
  5. Mistman, you err! You are speaking of this mythical eighth day and that does nothing but confuse the entire issue. So to remove the inherent confusion, cast that aside as nothing more than what it is, garbage! Now, letś deal with the manor in which God patterns His cycle of work in the scriptures, the seven day cycle, not seven day week, that is where you have run amuck. God gave us the seven day week and the seven year Sabbath for the best pattern to run our lives by. Had I ever imagined this issue ever arising I would have held up the OP until the Spirit gave me better to work with but I must say, in the past 21+ years of study and teaching you are the first to confuse this issue in this manor.

    First and fore most it must be noted that every single word of the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek texts are God inspired and the Sovereignty of God is not ever limited, therefore the translations are both inspired and governed by God or they pass away! Couple these truths with the fact that even science today puts man on the Earth for only about six thousand years and this can never be discounted. Then there is the matter of the Millennial Reign of the Christ that comes after the Great Tribulation and your claim of immanent doom will always fall on deaf ears when speaking to men and women that have not quenched the Spirit and are Prayerfully and Submissively studying the Word of God.

    I´m not going to tell you that I´m sorry, I´m not, but you are in need of Holy Spirit led education.
  6. Bill I am genuinely saddened by the content and tone of your response as I thought you might be one who would realize the fundamental error that underlies the theology you proposed in your original post when it was pointed out.

    What is this mythical 8th day you speak of. My post made it abundantly clear there is NO 8th day therefore I am not speaking of a mythical 8th day but that an 8th day does NOT exist. The theology YOU spoke of in your original post infers an 8th day that does not exist. Perhaps if I explain it a little differently.

    The theology you spoke of is confusing the 7 days of creation and the 7 "days" of world history with the 7 day calendar week. If I might explain.

    In the calendar week there is a day AFTER the 7th day that marks the END of the 7th day. But it is not an 8th day of the week but the FIRST day of the NEXT week. The fundamental error of the theology you speak of is it regards the 7 days of creation and world history as a calendar week where the 7th day is followed by another day. However both the seven days of creation and the 7 "days" of history are NOT a repeating cycle but a single cycle of 7 days only. What ENDS the 7th day of a calendar week is the first day of the next week but in both creation and history there is NO next week just the one week with an ENDLESS 7th day of rest.

    If we take a close look at Genesis we can appreciate it more. Genesis calls the light "day" and the EVENING and the MORNING were the first day. Then there was evening and morning, the second day. Then evening and morning the third day and so on. Note especially NOT the daytime period morning and evening but the period of NIGHT, evening and morning. In typical Hebrew fashion the days were marked by their ENDING not their beginning.

    But note there is NO evening and morning, the SEVENTH day. That is because there is nothing beyond the seventh day to stop it. The seventh day is a day without evening, a day without ending. An ETERNAL day of rest.

    The Lord rested at the END of the sixth day, not the end of the seventh day for the seventh day has no end. It is NOT a 1 day /1,000 year period but a time without end ... Eternity.

    But your presumptiveness that my understanding does not come from the Holy Spirit as if only those who believe the things that you believe could ever have the Holy Spirit is not an arrogance I would have expected of you. Whether or not I have within me the leading of the Holy spirit will be judged by the Lord and HIS word not the words, traditions, theologies and imaginings of man. My words do not accord with YOUR theology but they DO accord with the written word of the Lord.
  7. Mistman, understand from the git-go that I am not nor will I be dogmatic on the teaching of fundamental prophecies found in the Book of the Revelation to John, nor will I go beyond a discussion on the matter, please be careful and never hesitate to agree to disagree.

    Here you stand in offense, you slander me by insinuating that I erred by using the Seven Day Creation Model and I did nothing of the kind placing you on short notice! You brought up that erroneous model while I used the entire workings of God in the scriptures. Now, admittedly, that model does include the One Week Creation with the day of rest on the Sabbath but that is not available to be singled out in this discussion.

    Then, you are in need of intensive study of the Word of God, it is sharper than any two-edged sword, dividing the bone from the marrow. Those that are in the Spirit are of one accord (Acts) and that accord is not built by Honda! You and I are at odds (not in one accord) and that puts one of us out of or quenching the Holy Spirit! I and in constant, perpetual prayer every day and I watch God work, every day, as He reconciles my requests, as they fall within His Will. I am not the one quenching the Holy Spirit, so what is left?

    What you need to do, and this will offend you, is to do a Spiritual Inventory! If you have made more than two or three trips through the Bible, you already know what should be there and the inventory will be very simple. Now, before you jump down my throat with another false allegation, I have not placed you state of Salvation into question, your obedience... yes, Salvation, no!!

    And right there, Iĺl agree to disagree with you.
  8. Bill from the things you have said it would seem I have seriously misjudged you and for that I am truly more sorry than you will ever know. But perhaps others here may see in my words a good reason to take great care in testing what they have been told against what the Lord Himself has actually written. Those in Christ are indeed of one accord BUT they are of one accord WITH the word of the Lord Himself. No matter how many believe the same as we do, if what we believe is not in accordance with the truth of what the Lord has written then our beliefs are in vain.

    As to our individual spirituality I am sure it will not go unnoticed that in inferring I have not the Spirit you have done the very thing you accuse me of, and condemn me for, doing. As to being offended by you asking me to do a " spiritual inventory" the only one taking the opportunity to be offended here is you, not me.

    As to your assertions as to just how spiritual you are I could in all truthfulness say exactly the same thing. But then I have no doubt you could get the same assertions from a Roman Catholic person, an Eastern Orthodox person, an Anglican person, a Baptist person, a premillennialist, postmillennialist, or a-millennialist, probably even a Muslim or two. BUT any follower of Christ KNOWS that bearing witness of ones OWN spirituality is worse than useless for those who obey Christ will not do it. Those who follow Christ KNOW it is useless because Jesus Christ Himself has told us it is no witness at all:-

    John 5:31 "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

    Christ himself, the Holy Spirit, and the word of the Lord itself will bear witness for those who are truly in Christ. For those who are in Christ take on the nature of Christ, display the fruits of the Spirit, and accord with the word of God.

    I will not bear witness of myself but will allow THESE three to bear witness of me whether I am in Christ or not.

    But I see little purpose in prolonging this discussion. I have drawn attention to what the word of God declares. I assume everybody here has their own Bible where they can read the written word of the Lord for themselves. If nobody stands between us and Christ then one must ask oneself why do some insist that a theology of man MUST stand between you and understanding the word of God. To those out there who may be watching this thread and are in Christ remember that the Holy Spirit is not out there somewhere, He is THERE inside YOU!

    But in finishing Bill at the beginning of this thread you asked why so many were afraid to discuss and teach on Revelation and end time prophecy. You may find the answer lies in your own posts here.

  9. That is good news Bill! I would also encourage you to study Daniel along side the Revelation. Daniel was told to seal up his book until the time of the end, and the Revelation is the unfolding of Daniel's 70th week of prophecy.

    Blessings to you always......AND KEEP TEACHING THAT CLASS MY FRIEND!!!
  10. I have and do still study Daniel, regularly but in this case we have one quarter to do The Revelation in and thatś one chapter per week with a summation in the twenty-third week. That is why Daniel will only be touched on lightly.
  11. Good byw!
  12. Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit, is LOVE, joy, peace , patience, kindness, goodness, faithfullness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

    1Cr 13:3-5 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames and have not love, I gain nothing.
    Love is PATIENT, love is KIND. It does not envy, it does not BOAST, it is not PROUD, It is not RUDE, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily ANGERED, it keeps no record of wrongs.
  13. I know what you are saying. I hate the way the SBC does that. It just can not be studied in 1 or even 2 quarters!
  14. Thank you for you keeping me in line, every one of us is responsible to every one that is following Jesus, but, you must consider any scripture in the light of all other scripture. So it was and is today, when Jesus sent the Twelve out, He instructed them on the time to kick the dust off of their feet and to move on to those with the ears to hear and and the eyes to see.

    In light of his opening post and my friendship/association with the other grounded members of this forum, followed by his inflammatory and argumentative post structure, it is he that as failed the tests of brotherhood and it is he that has rejected sound understanding of the scriptures. This means I can agree to disagree with him and say good-bye to him or I can follow him into his sin and reject the sound doctrine given me by the Holy Spirit and that will not occure here!
    Major likes this.
  15. When the class requested that we study The Revelation of Jesus I asked them did they want to just by pass the quarterly and do this quarter or did they want a year or a five year, intensive, study and they opted for the quarter. Itś difficult to make a horse drink when you´ve led him down to the river. They are just to trained to the quarter by quarter ad it remains tough to teach old dogs!
  16. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (KJV)

    In this verse we see John is addressing the seven Churches that would be found in, I believe, what we call Asia Minor today. It is popular to also apply these statements to the different time spans of the growing Church from the death of the Christ until now. That would place us, today, in the Laodicean Church Age... I agree! This makes all of what Jesus said to John relevant to us.

    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    We notice in the (b) portion of 4 and the (a) portion of 5 that the greeting and wish for Grace is from nine individuals, Jesus, John and the seven Spirits (Angels) of the seven Churches that can also be found standing (in audience?) at the foot of the Throne of God. In the latter part of 5 we see the credentials of our LORD and King, Jesus, the Messiah. And then we see the portion of this chapter that is, perhaps, the most debated, every one of us that has taken Jesus and have accepted being cleansed by His Blood is a King and a Priest, directly responsible to our Holy Father, God the Father!

    Each and every one of us has direct access to he Father, through the Son of God. That is not only an honor, it is also an Eternal responsibility!

    7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    In verse 7 we find the reason John and the members of the Early Church were always on alert, expecting the return of the Son at any moment and the very reason we, every one of us must also stand ready. Jesus will return with the clouds, just as He left! This could have been so at any point during the past twenty centuries and it is even more possible today as we approach the end of the sixth day.

    A point worth noting is that in this verse we see that Jesus will be visible, live, to all the world when He returns. Before the recent past this has not been possible but today, with the ability to broadcast live television around the globe it is a well practiced event.

    8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. 9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

    In verse 8 we find our brother, John, quoting the Master! Not only is Jesus the beginning and the ending, He is the Almighty, (John 1:1-3) Creator of everything that is. Then in verse 9 Brother John begins to explain how he came to be locked away on Patmos. And in verse 10 he explains that he had slipped into the spirit on Sunday and these things were revealed to him.
  17. Bill,
    You are welcome to tell me not to in put anything to your thread, but I thought I would point out to you that the
    7 Spirits really do not indicate 7 personalities but instead they speak of COMPLETE/PERFECTION.

    SEVEN has to do with God's covenant and His dealings with Israel. Example: the Sabbath, circumcision, and worship all hinged around the seventh day.
    The people went around Jericho 7 times.
    Naaman went down 7 tiomes into the River Jordan.
    There were 7 years of plenty and 7 years of famine in Egypt.
    Nebuchadnezzar was insane for 7 years.
    There are 7 beattitudes.
    There are 7 petitions in the Lords Prayer.
    There are 7 parabels in Matthew 13.
    7 loaves of bread fed the people.
    Jesus spoke 7 times from the cross.
    7 candels in Revelation.
    7 churches in Revelation,

    The 7 Spirits are "from Him and from the seven spirits" which actually presents the teaching of the TRINITY to us.
    The 7 Spirits refer IMO to the complete of the God head.
  18. I´ll do nothing of the sort! Just as iron sharpens iron so do Christians, grounded in the Word, make better Christians

  19. 9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    In this verse we find that John had been arrested and found guilty of preaching the Gospel. Research this further and you will find that John survived being boiled in oil first. How much are you willing to suffer for the cause of the Gospel?

    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

    John had not only walked with and was taught by Jesus for over three years, because he had suffered for the truth, he was privy to be the LORD´s messenger. We must remember why John was given this honor, it was not cheap.

    16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    I have been the member of two Baptist Church Families when the Golden Lamp-stands were removed. When that happens the LORD is no longer blessing that assembly and Worship is no longer received by God and it is miserable. When we select a church building to meet in we must not choose the building but judge, carefully, the teacher and the family attitude there. If there is a two edged sword coming out of our LORD´s mouth ad best avoid Ear Ticklers.

    19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    Just as we find in Daniel, there are real Angels amongst us. There is an Angle of the LORD in every church that teaches the truth of the Gospel and if they do not teach the Hell Fire and Brimstone truth, there is no golden candelstick and the angel is replaced by Satan´s deamons.

    God bless and happy LORD´s Day.

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