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Interpretation of Scripture

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by freedom07, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. Interpretation of Scripture

    Where does the comma go?

    Consider the vastly different meaning of these 2 versions of Luke 23:43, the only difference being the placement of the comma: "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
    "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

    http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/interprt.htm
     
  2. entering satans realm,a play on words,even thinks he,ll get of on a technicality.funny.:)
     
  3. Might be a good time to look at the KJV again just for clarity and to refute some translations that were done in error or changed deliberately...

    "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."
     
  4. to....day we will be in paradise.give you the morning star......sunrise.a day person who see,s the sun rise.:read-bible:
     



  5. You speak of satan alot as i have noticed from some of your posts do you know him well

    And to answer the original question in koine greek what the bible was written in there was no comas in this scripture at all.this was added by english translators. but i believe it ment to as soon as the theif died he would go to be with the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Bless You
    damiel2macarius
     
  6. Sorry, maybe this wasn't the best interpretation of scripture to choose.
     
  7. The answer lies pretty much within the context ……did Jesus go to paradise…that day? And the words into thy Kingdom are key to understanding verse 43
    Luke 23: 42 & 43 And he {the malefactor} said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
    43: And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise
    Verse 42 states “into thy kingdom†Christ’s kingdom was here upon earth and is being held in abeyance until it picks up again in Revelation. Just before Christ ascended his disciples asked Him Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
    7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
    Now remember we are not speaking of heaven, the words paradise and heaven are two distinctly different words. According to biblical definitions paradise is used as someplace here on earth, heaven is anyplace above the earth.
    In verse 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise
    One little comma changes everything. Translators starting in the 11th century started adding punctuation, there was no punctuation in the originals. Here in this verse 43 they placed the comma after today, so the Bible would read that when you die {that day} you will be with me in paradise. The problem with that is, Jesus didn’t go to paradise that day. The Bible states He was in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. According to Jewish law it took 72 hours before you were officially declared dead; and Jesus fulfilled the law.
    By placing the comma after the word today, you then have an accurate rendering of the truth. Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise. Jesus was saying unto him “that dayâ€â€¦.. that sometime in the future, he {the malefactor} would be with Him in paradise.
    Now to us that might be a funny way of stating something, but it was an idiom commonly used in the eastern culture. References of this are scattered throughout the Bible some of these are used in Deuteronomy 6:6 – 7:11 – 8:1 – 9:3 – 10:13 – 11:2
     
  8. nearly sent me mad for nearly 2 years,so yep i know him.:).feel better when i need not know him anymore.:read-bible:
     
  9. Hi all This verse is a super example of having to use common sense to figure out the meaning. Christ was "today" not in paradise - he was in the tomb. Three days later he had not even gone to paradise since he had not ascended to the Father yet by early Sunday morning. And the thief on the cross would have to wait for the last trump to be resurrected. So clearly, IMHO, the punctuation is "I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise"
     
  10. That's what I believe also. :israel:
     
  11. While his body was in the tomb some say His Spirit was setting free the ones waiting in Abrahams bossom ( paradise!?)- then there is the ? of what was considered a day ( a day with the Lord is as a thousand years) just a few wrinkles to think about:D
     
  12. "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

    Kind of sounds like the Lord didn't always tell the truth. But on this day he did. Doesn't make sense.

    Peter said on pentecost:
    Acts 2:15
    These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

    The implication is that they don't normally get drunk until later in the day. :)
     
  13. what are you sayng JAsher- Jesus is the Truth
     
  14. Might help to see how the early church folks understood this passage...
     
  15. Hi Mr Jim and amen brother!
     
  16. This is from Theophilus, about 180 A.D.

    God transferred man from the earth, out of which had been produced, into Paradise, giving him meanse of advancement...In respect of beauty, this place, Paradise, was made intermediate bewteen earth and heaven.

    I've understood and been taught that there is an intermediate place between earth and our eternal destiny, whether heaven or the Lake of Fire.

    For the believer it is paradise~for the lost it is hell. These are places where the soul is kept. Then at the resurrection and judgement the body & soul is reunited for our eternal destiny (Heaven or the Lake of Fire).

    Some (Like the 7th Day Adventists) believe in "Soul Sleep", that when ya die, the soul is dormant/sleeping until the resurrection, then judgment is meted.

    Anyhow, that's how I've understood these things:)
     
  17. From the Original Greek Language Texts, this simply means that when the criminal on an adjacent cross spoke with Christ about his sorrow in being a malefactor, Christ told him not to worry - He would see the malefactor in Paradise that very day.

    [Remember from Luke 16:19-31 (KJV) - Lazarus and the Rich Man both died at the same time and were on OPPOSITE sides of the Gulf IN Paradise (Heaven). One side was for the believers and the other side was for those who did not believe or never had a chance to HEAR the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Heaven has two sides.]

    However, since the criminal crucified with Christ still was under the LAW, God knew it would not have been fair for everyone who was under the LAW to not have the same chance at Salvation as all those who came AFTER Christ's death under Grace. God sent his only begotten son to preach to all those on the bad side of Paradise so they, TOO, could choose to believe upon Him and be saved. That's where Christ went after the tomb was sealed - He was transfigured and went to teach those on the bad side of the Gulf. That's why he said, "Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise."


    Christ appeared to several persons who were walking on the road to Emmaus. If you read Luke 24:1-53 (KJV) very carefully, especially Luke 24:16 (KJV) you can discern that Christ appeared to them in a transfigured body.
     
  18.  
  19. Hi Jim

    The following scriptures are from the Bible (not the SDA's manual) and all seem to support soul sleep.

    Acts 2:34 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
    Job 14:14-15 14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
    Psalm 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
    1 Corinthians 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    John 3:13 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    How do you explain them?

    And how do you explain that Christ himself said he would be "as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. " Matthew 12:40

    That does not sound like "paradise" in the heart of the earth.

    Mark 8:31 31 "And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. " Christ said that "after three days" he would rise again - not during those three days.

    Even the two witnesses have no life when they are dead for 3.5 days. Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. "
     
  20. Please allow me to clarify my previous Post:

    Previous Post:
    "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

    Kind of sounds like the Lord didn't always tell the truth. But on this day he did. Doesn't make sense.
    End of previous post:

    Clarification:
    If I say to you "I tell you the truth today, comma" The inference is that I don't always tell the truth everyday. So the comma can't possibly go at the end of the word today because Jesus always told the truth. It has to go before the word today.

    Previous post:
    Peter said on Pentecost:
    Acts 2:15
    These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

    The implication is that they don't normally get drunk until later in the day. :)Close previous post.

    Likewise this verse also could be misconstrued by inference like the first. However, we know from the history of the NT that The Apostles were not drunkards, so we would never take it that way. But I have seen many deliberate misinterpretations like this on the Athiest forum on another large site by those who have a spirit that wants to ridicule the Gospel.
     

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