Indwelling Holy Spirit In Old Testament

For me, labels say in shorthand what takes paragraphs to say otherwise. No intention to create problems for others! :D
 
What about John the baptist as he was filled with the Holy Spirit from birth? And he lived under the Old Testament.
 
Ravindran said:
I haven't seen the movie :) You might have to use some other analogy..
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Awwww. Well, I do it out of tradition. :) There is a longer answer, but you MAY not want to read it. Maybe I should write that while it is tradition, it is also a way to protect the Holy Name while writing. And yes, I do know that these are not His Names, but in the States, they are used as his Names in both prayer and epithets.
 
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Ravindran said:
Reformed huh.. I see.. I try to avoid denominational labels.. I am a mix of everything.. Believe in pre-destination and election.. Believe gifts are there for today also.. But not in the typical charismatic way.. I attend Assemblies of God Church.. Do not believe in Covenant theology.. More of a leaky dispensationalist..

In short, a born again Christian :)
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What's covenant theology?
 
Wasn't the Old Testament sacrifices just a covering, a kaw-far' that didn't take away the sin of the person presenting the sacrifice, but rather covered him, an atonement until the Lamb that took away the sins of the whole world would present Himself? Ge 22:8, Jn 1:29

There are three words in the Greek that describe the action of the Holy Spirit in the lives of men (but I have forgotten them right now :eek:), along side of, inside of and upon, the Holy Spirit is along side of a man when He is drawing them to Jesus, He is inside of them when they are born again and He comes upon them for the anointing and empowering the gift He has given them for service, the only people that have the Holy Spirit living inside of them is the Church, Paul makes that clear in his teachings.

John the Baptist was in a special time of transition between the end of dispensation of the Law and the coming dispensation of Grace, yes he was filled with the Holy Spirit, but he wasn't indwelt by the Holy Spirit like we are, if that were so he would be a part of the Church and Jesus specifically states he is not. Matt 11:11

The key to this is remembering Dispensations do not over lap, when one is finished then the other starts.

Blessings,

Gene
 
I believe like most here, that the Holy Spirit only dwelled in and upon the Old Testament saints on a temporary basis. Once their ministry was done which God gave them to do the Holy Spirit left them. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit upon birth, (luke 1:15) and he preached repentance with the fire of the Holy Spirit in him. His mission was to preach repentance and to testify to whom the Messiah was. This required the Holy Spirit power. He proclaimed the coming Kingdom with out fear, and warned those who were living in wickedness, even condemning Herod who was living with his brothers wife!! He never feared for his life. Only someone filled with the Holy Spirit could do that. It is very interesting that after John,s arrest and being placed in prison, not to long after witnessing that Jesus was the Son of God he began to doubt whether Jesus was truly the Son of God.

Luke 7:19 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?
Luke 7:20 When the men were come unto him (Jesus), they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

This tells me the Holy Spirit had left John as his mission in this life was complete. Jesus mentions some things I think that give us a clue as to why the Holy Spirit was only temporary in the Old Testament saints. This is only my opinion, but I think it comes from the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells us that only new wine is put into new wine skins or else it will burst the container it is but into. Wine being a form of the Holy Spirit which comes and dwells within us after the new birth (new wine skins) We are also told to protect our heart because out of the it flows the forces, and issues of life. Proverbs 4:23 The Lord protects his heart from things that could grieve it or cause it harm.
We can after being born again grieve the Holy Spirit by speaking with all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, and all malice: If we can do these things after being born again, how much more harm could we do before coming to Christ? To protect the Holy Spirit from these God first makes us new wine skins and then he places in us the Holy Spirit which is now protected by Christ who is our new life. Christ can not sin, die, or ever fail. Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you. The Holy Ghost is with us for ever through out all eternity, Oh happy days....
 
Ravindran said:
There is absolutely no question that Holy Spirit indwells in New Testament believers.. How about days before Pentecost? Were OT believers indwelt by Holy Spirit? They were all saved by faith.. And they had faith in Lord only because of work of Holy Spirit.. I think we all can agree? If so, did the Holy Spirit continue to indwell in them? I have my personal view (with Scriptural understanding).. I will come to that later.. I think this is a good topic to discuss around Pentecost time :)
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My brother, the Holy Spirit did not in-dwell the believers of the Old Test. but instead "came upon" them.

I think the question has always been.......length. How long did He operate.

The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers in 1 Cor. 3:16-17. When we place our faith in Christ for salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to live within us at the moment of conversion. The Apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance” in Eph. 1:13-14.

But in contrast to this work in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua in Num. 27:18. David in 1 Saqm. 16:12-13, and even Saul in 1 Sam. 10:10. In the book of Judges, we see the Spirit “coming upon” the various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors.
 
gonefishing said:
What's covenant theology?
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Covenant Theology isn’t so much a “theology” in the sense of a systematic set of doctrine as it is a framework for interpreting Scripture. It is usually contrasted with another interpretative framework for Scripture called “Dispensational Theology” or “Dispensationalism.” Dispensationalism is currently the most popular scriptural interpretative method in American evangelicalism, and has been so from the latter half of the 19th century. Covenant Theology, however, remains the majority report for Protestantism since the time of the Reformation, and it is the system favored by those of a more Reformed or Calvinistic persuasion.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/covenant-theology.html#ixzz34RCMMuXX
 
Major said:
NO.
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It is hard for me to accept this.. The reason is, no one can do anything apart from Spirit.. There is no way for a person to glorify God through their own except for working of Holy Spirit in them.. As a believer, our works are not because of our spirit, but because of a yielding of our spirit to Holy Spirit.. If that is the case in NT, that has to be the case in OT as well..

But I think it is not a major disagreement.. The main thing to agree is that the OT saints did all those great things only because of Spirit of God.. We can disagree on whether Spirit simply fell upon them or dwelt in them.. As long as we agree it was Spirit of God, we should be okay I guess :)
 
Ravindran said:
It is hard for me to accept this.. The reason is, no one can do anything apart from Spirit.. There is no way for a person to glorify God through their own except for working of Holy Spirit in them.. As a believer, our works are not because of our spirit, but because of a yielding of our spirit to Holy Spirit.. If that is the case in NT, that has to be the case in OT as well..

But I think it is not a major disagreement.. The main thing to agree is that the OT saints did all those great things only because of Spirit of God.. We can disagree on whether Spirit simply fell upon them or dwelt in them.. As long as we agree it was Spirit of God, we should be okay I guess :)
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I agree brother. It is only when we consider the teaching of Jesus Himself that we see He promised the coming of the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit to come in John 7:39. The Holy Spirit could not come to minister to man if He was already indwelling in the hearts of man during the Old Test. You see, this according to Jesus was something new. The Holy Spirit was going TO COME when He ascended to heaven so that man would not be comfortless.

Does that help any ?
 
Major said:
I agree brother. It is only when we consider the teaching of Jesus Himself that we see He promised the coming of the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit to come in John 7:39. The Holy Spirit could not come to minister to man if He was already indwelling in the hearts of man during the Old Test. You see, this according to Jesus was something new. The Holy Spirit was going TO COME when He ascended to heaven so that man would not be comfortless.

Does that help any ?
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I always saw that as an expression of Jesus indicating that Holy Spirit will permanently indwell in a person empowering them.. The empowerment in OT was temporary.. Whereas in NT it is permanent..

It does look like the word "given" was not there in the original text.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/7-39.htm

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
(39) The word “given” is omitted in nearly all MSS. except the Vatican. “Holy” before Ghost is also probably an insertion, though it is found in some of the oldest MSS. and versions. These are additions of copyists who were anxious to preserve from all possibility of misinterpretation the doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit.
 
Ravindran said:
I always saw that as an expression of Jesus indicating that Holy Spirit will permanently indwell in a person empowering them.. The empowerment in OT was temporary.. Whereas in NT it is permanent..

It does look like the word "given" was not there in the original text.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/7-39.htm

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
(39) The word “given” is omitted in nearly all MSS. except the Vatican. “Holy” before Ghost is also probably an insertion, though it is found in some of the oldest MSS. and versions. These are additions of copyists who were anxious to preserve from all possibility of misinterpretation the doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit.
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Isn't the highlighted portion above the reason why the OT saints could not be indwelt?

Gene
 
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