1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

In Defense Of The Triunity

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Abdicate, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. Every cult and false religion denies in differing ways that the Lord Jesus is God Almighty in human flesh. The doctrine of the Trinity is what makes Biblical Christianity stand alone.

    The late Dr. Walter Martin said several times: 'If you are wrong about God and who He is...you are wrong enough to lose your soul for eternity!! How true that statement is. (Dr. Martin has written several excellent books on the cults and false religions)

    In His Word, the Bible, God has revealed Himself as a Triune God. The definition of the Trinity is as follows: The Bible says there is only one God but within the one God there exist three Divine Persons; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three Divine Persons are the one God.

    This study on the Trinity gives Biblical proof to those who doubt or deny the doctrine of the Trinity. First I will show from God's Word that there is only one God. After this point is made, I show that there is a Person called the Father and that He is God. Next, I show that there is a Person called the Son and He is God. Finally, I show that there is a Person called the Holy Spirit and He also is God. Three Divine persons...One God.

    Keep in mind that we as finite men cannot fully understand an infinite God by our own understanding. However, God has revealed Himself to us in His Word and through His Word He is revealed as a Triune God.

    ONE GOD

    The Bible teaches there is only one God

    God reveals in His Word that there is only one God and that no other gods exist apart from Him. The following verses illustrate this fact:

    "Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him" (Deuteronomy 4:35).

    "Ye are my witnesses saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10).

    "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:6,8).

    "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:...Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:5,22).

    "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)

    These verses show that there is only one God that exists. Men may call different things gods or worship different objects, but there is only one eternal God who exists apart from His creation.

    THE TRINITY: One God --- Three Divine Persons

    Hinted in the Old Testament

    "And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Genesis 1:26).

    "And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil:..." (Genesis 3:22).

    "...let US go down, and there confound their language..." (Genesis 11:7).

    The Trinity: Revealed in baptism

    "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mark 1:9-11). This verse shows the Father speaking, the Son being baptized, and the Spirit descending.

    "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

    The Trinity: Revealed in salutations

    "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:..." (1 Peter 1:2).

    "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." (2 Cor 13:14).

    The Trinity in the Resurrection

    (1) The Father raised the Lord Jesus

    "Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities" (Acts 3:26).

    "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come" (1 Thess 1:10).

    (2) The Lord Jesus raised Himself

    "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up....But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19,21).

    (3) The Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus

    "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).

    The previous verses show that the Father raised the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit raised the Lord Jesus. The Trinity is shown in the resurrection.

    This final verse shows that it was God Almighty who raised the Lord Jesus: "Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead" (Acts 17:31). Remember, there is one God: three Divine Persons.

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5:7).

    NOTES on the TRINITY:

    * Who RAISED Jesus from the dead? The Father (Romans 6:4)? The Son (John 2:19-21; 10:17,18)? The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11)? Or God ? (Acts 3:26, 13:30, 17:30,31; 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; Hebrews 13:20)?

    * Who does the Bible say is God? The Father (Ephesians 4:6)? The Son (Titus 2:13; John 1:1, 20:28)? The Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4)? The one and only true God (Deuteronomy 4:35)?

    * Who CREATED the world? The Father (John 14:2)? The Son (Colossians1:16,17; John 1:1-3)? The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2; Psalm 104:30)? Or God (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 11:3)?

    * Who SAVES man? Who REGENERATES man? The Father (1 Peter 1:3)? The Son (John 5:21, 4:14)? The Holy Spirit (John 3:6; Titus 3:5)? Or God (1 John 3:9)?

    * Who JUSTIFIES man? The Father Jeremiah 23:6, cf. 2 Corinthians 5:19)? The Son (Romans 5:9, 10:4; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21)? The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:11; Galatians 5:5)? Or God (Romans 4:6, 9:33)?

    * Who SANCTIFIES man? The Father (Jude 1)? The Son (Titus 2:14)? The Holy Spirit (1 Peter 1:2)? Or God (Exodus 31:13)?

    * Who propitiated God's just anger against man for his sins? The Father (1 John 4:14; John 3:16, 17:5, 18:11)? The Son (Matthew 26:28; John 1:29; 1 John 2:2)? The Holy Spirit(Hebrews 9:14)? Or God??? (2 Corinthians 5:1; Acts 20:28)?
     
    MichaelH and AllieWi say Amen and like this.
  2. "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:...Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:5,22).

    This is not the Original trinity Doctrine but a made up version based on it.

    One reason why I do not subscribe to any of these man made doctrines.


    What everyone in Christianity must understand is that it's a Roman Catholic Doctrine. The same folks that keep Holy Water around in Case of vampires. The copy cat fakes followed after it.

    The Nicene Creed Original Trinity Doctrine 325ad.

    I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
    And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made. Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man


    This is the true Trinity Doctrine established 325ad before the council of Trent.

    The big difference in the Real Doctrine is that There is One Lord God as scripture states, and One Lord Jesus Christ. The bible affirms this.

    Jesus was not God incarnate. It was Jesus incarnate as a man.

    There is one Lord God, there is none like me.

    For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
    (Jud 1:4)

    Jesus is not his Father, and Jesus is not the creator. The Father made all things for the son.

    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

    Scripture once again shows this.

    God in Trinity never refereed to a person. It refereed to a substance................ 3 divine persons Nician 381 of the same essence.
    All God of the same Substance.

    The Holy Spirit did not make the roll call of the original.

    by this as Abdicate Posted leaves ZERO scripture contradictions............... The Father, raised the Lord Jesus and crucified him. There is only One Lord God (Creator) and revealed to us in the last days, His Son, One Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now how they become ONE............ is a mystery. Only one scripture shows this and that is contested.

    It's modelist and Oneness after 1914 that Mashes them together..................... 1 God that becomes 3 people.

    A lot of modern Trinity Doctrines today are not Trinity but Modelist doctrines twisted to suite someones needs.

    A few things I don't like about the Trinity Doctrine. Jesus being begotten before the Worlds were made. Scripture just shows him always being here, and the only scripture that refers to him being begotten is when God spoke the Word and he was begotten by that spoken word or made flesh by the Word. Nothing about a Begotten date before the Worlds were made.

    this one substance.......... God substance? Trinity does it's best to make 3 Gods to keep from contradictions so makes a new Term that includes this God substance not mentioned in the Word. 3 of the same substance, God of God. This way Trinity can avoid problems with "Who raised Jesus from the dead" and still have a ONE only concept of the same substance.

    Later it was moved to just Godhead. 3 in the Godhead.

    Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead is another term. Sort of denotes Jesus as number 2....... but Jesus was given all things and Now is Lord of all Lord's. His Father handed him everything scripture says and we are Joint heirs with Him.

    Great post........... i am done rambling. Know what you believe, Know the Original, take time to study the History.
     
  3. I'm not a label maker so I just stick with the Scriptures. Thanks for the kind words :)
     
  4. It's a Fascinating Study to be sure. I think we all like to believe we just (Stick with scriptures)

    I don't mind the Trinity Doctrine. Not say I am 100% for it, but Rome did a fairly decent Job considering it was 325ad under Constantine.

    The original Doctrine was not about who God was, it was a debate between Alexander and Rome. A debate if Jesus was a demi god of some sort. Never occurred to them about a Trinity thing that would be the main subject many years later.

    Whatever the case, I am completely against oneness or Modelism.
    1 God that manifest as 3.

    You also have to deal with people who think they are Trinitarian but really are not. No clue what the doctrine stated.

    If there is only one, then you have to erase one. I don't believe God is so complex he would forgo His own design of what a Father and Son is, then ask us to forget how to add.

    Some believe he did just that, I don't buy into it.

    Be blessed.
     
  5. I'd like to know why you and people like you take what others have said and twist them to meet some religious box and slapping a label on it. I don't give a hoot about the catholics or buddhists or baptists, I care about the word of God and if you believe it, you cannot get past the fact God says His One and yet there are three distinct Entities to which they refer to One Another. Give it a label of Refejoy (that means nothing) and slap it on this mystery if it makes you feel better. This is why I put the label of TriUnity because people like you blow a gasket over a word that doesn't even appear in the word of God - Trinity. But really, when you deviate from the conversation about scripture to what other religions profess, to me you're judging me first for assuming I got this information from some man-made doctrine and then secondly assuming I believe that religion's doctrine, that's just rude. I don't care if you don't believe it or not, but reconcile the all verses on their own merit and decide for yourself and give your thoughts. Otherwise you're only here to debate like it's a sport. I'm here to get people to read the scriptures for themselves, present MY understandings and provoke others to do the same so we can grow in the knowledge and wisdom of the Lord together.
     


  6. I put this on another post, but noticed that you Michael H said "Jesus was not God incarnate. It was Jesus incarnate as a man."

    Jesus was both God and man which is why he sometimes refers to himself as Son of God and sometimes as Son of man.

    But regarding Jesus as being God here:

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John1:1). "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

    From these two verses we can see that Jesus was the Word and it says, "the Word was God."

    "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am (John 8:58).
    "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you (Exodus 3:14).

    Again by comparing scriptures we see that Jesus was God.

    "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:5-8).

    "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8).

    Jesus is not God the Father, but God the Son.

    If I am misunderstanding you, please forgive me, but do you not believe that Jesus was God on earth?
     
  7. Also, these verses show Jesus as creator.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John1:1). "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

    From these two verses we can see that Jesus was the Word and it says, "the Word was God."
     
  8. Why are we joint heirs instead of Jesus giving it to us. Because Jesus the Son of man is an heir.
     
  9. Even the verse you gave, "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe (Hebrews 1:2) shows Jesus as creator.

    Maybe I am misunderstanding you. But is this what you were saying, that you don't believe Jesus to be creator?
     
  10. let's examine Jesus, God the Son. Let's stay very consistent on how we read the Word.

    That verse shows a few things............. God sent his son in the last days to speak the Word. God appointed Jesus heir of all things through whom he made the Ages (Aion)......Worlds.
    The Key word here is Through................... Everything the Father did was Through and for the Son of God. Your translation did a better Job than the KJV........... it's the Word dia which means for the sake of something, by reason of, through something else.

    The KJV pulled a neat little trick to help a Trinity concept along. If you believe something is right, then you give it a little push.

    All things were made through, for the sake of, and because of the Son.......... Nothing was made, that was not because of the Son, for the Son and through the Son.

    dia
    dee-ah'
    A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that,

    For by (through and because of, by reason that) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    (Col 1:16)

    Every thing the Father did, was for, through, for the sake of, His Son.

    Jesus the Word Part of God. Is Jesus just some Word?

    (only if you want to stay inconsistent in understanding and translating to make a doctrine)

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
    (Joh 1:1-2)

    The Word is with God, Was God, The same and no different than God here from the beginning.

    Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

    If Jesus is the Word part of some god, then the Word would speak of himself and not what told to speak by commandment.
    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    So, it needs translated like we normally would.

    God speaks:

    Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    When God speaks, that is it. It will come to pass at the appointed time. Nothing can change that. God spoke, saying I declare the decree, the Lord has said unto me, Thou art my Son, this day have i begotten thee.

    God is speaking to the Son here, He is giving His son a (Earthly) Begotten decree.

    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    (Joh 1:12-13)

    John tells us through Jesus, He gives power to become a Son of God just like himself, Born of God.
    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    (Joh 1:14)

    John is not telling us the literal Word becomes flesh. John is telling us The Word came to pass and was Made into Flesh. What God Declared has now happened. Only Modelist and Oneness folks change their consistency in understanding that When God says something, it will come to pass.

    Act 13:33
    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    Is Jesus God?

    Well, I just gave the scripture that we also are given power to become Sons of God. Jesus is called God 3 times. One by Thomas, one by John and one by The Father Himself. All 3 times give a idea of not only God, but a God with authority.

    There is only one LORD GOD.

    That is scripture. One creator, One whom crucified the Son (Isa) One who Made all things.

    Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    (Joh 3:16)

    Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
    (Isa 53:10)

    Just because there is only one Creator, One Lord God, One Savior who Gave his son. Nothing in scripture denotes there was no REAL SON.

    The NT backs this up.

    Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    There are two here. In fact the NT mentions both Father and Lord Jesus Christ together 31 times. we don't ignore 31 scriptures. If there was just ONE GOD, then it would have said that.

    These Doctrines of Monotheism (One God) from men have made our minds to be blinded. They have made us to forget how to count, have made us over look Jesus was never called Lord God or creator.
    It's when we Translate with a doctrine of man, we miss what the Word does say.

    It also makes us dumb when the Word God is mentioned.

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    (1Co 8:5-6)

    One God the Father of whom are all things................ One Lord Jesus Christ by (through and because of)

    2 here........... One whom all things were made.............. One through and because of all things were made. TWO

    Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus the Son of God, who has always been with the Father, Like the Father, One with the Father (As we are in him) from the start of time.

    When we say there is ONE GOD..................... We deny one of them. It's the Antichrist that denies the Father and the Son. It was God the Son that came in the flesh.

    1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    Jesus Came as a man in the flesh............ Not God the Father incarnate. Anyone that says it was God the Creator, the Father is an Antichrist. It was God, His son that came, a Real son that He gave glory to before the World was even made.

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
    (1Jn 4:3)

    Not me.............. There are Two, Two Gods, to us as Paul said....... Father and Son. The rest that believe different are from the Antichrist, not my words, but scriptures.

    Be blessed.
     
  11. So, you're declaring that these seven verses of the Scriptures are either wrong or null and void am I correct?

    "Unto thee it was showed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him" (Deuteronomy 4:35).

    "Ye are my witnesses saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10).

    "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:6,8).

    "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:...Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:5,22).

    "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble" (James 2:19)

    That would make you saying, in your own words, that God lies too according to Isaiah 43:10 which states that no God was formed before or after God. If Jesus isn't the Creator but became a God, then that makes Isaiah 43:10 wrong and God a liar. Is that what you're saying?

    And as to 1 John 4:3 is says the spirit of the antichrist are those that do not believe Jesus, God, came in the flesh... but you're saying this verse means that Jesus is NOT God come in the flesh and anyone that says otherwise is of the spirit of the antichrist. I think you've got a lot of wrong ideas.

    What of the Holy Spirit? Is He not God?

    GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT - Third Person of the Trinity

    "But a certain man named Ananias with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God" (Acts 5:1-4).

    "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Cor 3:17,18).

    The Holy Spirit is God and He is the third Divine Person of the Trinity. We see in the first verse that to lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God. In the second verse the Holy Spirit is called God.

    The Holy Spirit is a Person with personal attributes

    He speaks

    "Then the Spirit said unto Philip , Go near, and join thyself to this chariot" (Acts 8:29).

    "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them" (Acts 13:2).

    He wills

    "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will" (1 Cor 12:11).

    He testifies

    "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me" (John 15:26).

    He intercedes

    "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered" (Romans 8:26).

    He leads

    "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" (Romans 8:14).

    "But if ye be led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law" (Galatians 5:18).

    He commands

    "Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not" (Acts 16:6,7).

    He appoints

    "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28).

    He can be blasphemed

    "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come" (Matthew 12:31,32).

    He can be insulted

    "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" (Hebrews 10:29).

    He can be grieved

    "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Ephesians 4:30).

    "But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them" (Isaiah 63:10).

    He teaches

    "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

    He has intellect and understanding

    "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual with spiritual" (1 Cor 2:10-13).

    He has a mind

    "And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God" (Romans 8:27).

    He is a Personal Being

    Many cults and false religions believe that the Holy Spirit is nothing more that the power of God. They deny that He is a personal Being. The above verses show that He is a Person with personal attributes. He is not the force or power of God.

    For example: electricity is power but it cannot talk. One can stick his finger into a light socket and get power but that power will not give advice or guidance. Radio waves are a form of energy but it is impossible to lie to a radar beam. Radio waves and electricity are both impersonal forms of energy but the Holy Spirit is God Himself...a personal Being.

    The Holy Spirit has God's Attributes

    He is eternal

    "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself..." (Hebrews 9:14).

    He is all powerful

    "...The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee..." (Luke 1:35).

    "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:..." (Acts 1:8).

    "Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost....Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God;..." (Romans 15:13,19).

    He creates

    "...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2).

    "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life" (Job 33:4).

    "Thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth" (Psalm 104:30).

    He is everywhere present

    "Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there..." (Psalm 139:7-10).

    He is all knowing

    "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God....even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God" (1 Cor 2:10,11).

    "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).

    Old Testament and New Testament Comparison

    In this section the Holy Spirit will be shown to be God Almighty as we compare a verse in the Old Testament with its counterpart verse in the New Testament.

    First, let us look at Isaiah 6:8,9 "Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not". In this verse God gave Isaiah a commission to go and speak to the children of Israel.

    Now lets look at the counterpart verse in the New Testament. "...Well spake the Holy Ghost by Isaiah the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:" (Acts 28:25,26).

    When these two verses are compared it can be easily seen that the Holy Spirit the one who is speaking and He is God.

    We read in Jeremiah 31:31-34 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more".

    I think that it is clear that it is God Almighty who is talking in this verse.

    Next, we compare this verse with Hebrews 10:15-17 "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more". Again, it is clearly shown that the Holy Spirit is God Almighty as He is the one speaking in each verse.

    This section has shown that the Holy Spirit is a Divine Person with personal attributes. He is not a mindless power or the force of God. He is God Almighty, the Third Person of the Trinity.
     
  12. You need to go back are Re-Read what I said.

    There is ONE LORD GOD by whom made all things............ ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST through whom all things are made.

    Paul said that, and I gave 4 scripture references.

    Jesus Christ the SON Came in the Flesh. Not GOD HIS FATHER.

    Nobody said Jesus the Son of God became a god. You said that.

    Jesus said he was here before the foundation of the World, With the Father who gave him Glory. I gave two scripture references to that.

    I never mentioned the Holy Spirit one time. You mentioned all that.

    You also just put a bunch of scriptures up that contradict yourself. I will allow you to go back and fix that. Here is one example out of ALL OF THEM.

    There is ZERO Scripture denoting the Holy Spirit as a god.
    God has always taken ownership of the Holy Spirit...... ALWAYS.

    The Spirit OF............OF............OF God moved according to the Word spoken. The Word framed the Worlds through the Power of the Holy Spirit. (Heb 11)

    The Spirit OF........ God. made him.

    God sends fourth HIS Spirit.
    Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

    Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    He comes from the Father, He is not God or the Father.

    The Holy Spirit is NOT GOD (By definition of Theos he can be classified as one but not the Father) He is the Spirit of God, God's Spirit that is sent from God, proceeds from God.

    Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    (Joh 16:13)

    If he is God, then He does not need to hear a thing, and would certainly speak of himself.................


    Jesus was here as he said with the FAther before the World was made. It was Jesus the Son that came in the flesh, God so loved the World he sent his Son........ Not himself.

    There is only ONE LORD GOD, but that does not remove the ONE LORD JESUS. Jesus has a Father, just like He said he did how many times?

    The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, Comes from God, is the Power of God. He does not act on his own, does not seek his own, does not speak anything until he hears it from the Father. He has to hear, before he acts!!!

    And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    (Gen 1:2-3)

    Remove your doctrine, and read again.
     
  13. #13 Abdicate, Mar 22, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
    So you're saying Jesus isn't God... I thought you just said He was God... "TWO GODS" you said... so which is it? You speak in such double talk it doesn't make sense. Explain yourself. What you're implying and saying is tantamount to blasphemy. Don't tell me what I've said, explain yourself please. Spell it out like a two-year old. You have this issues because you're trying to divide God into who knows what.
     
  14. See, this is why I have X'ed out certain people that I go scriptures with. Major, Paul, Gene......... Now you accuse me of trying to divide God's Word into who knows what........

    I am doing my best here, and I have examined all doctrines and been in the Word for a very long time. I other words I am trying to be nice.

    However, I don't understand how I can be misunderstood. If you read very carefully the scriptures I gave and explanation as all scripture must match perfectly you would know what I am meaning.

    Doctrine can be a bad or good thing. It can force you to look at the Word in the right light, or it can force you to try to make sense of something to fit a doctrine.
    Do we stick 100% by scripture? Do we try to make sense out of it all using someone else ideas?

    There is ONLY ONE LORD GOD in the Bible.

    Just ONE.

    NO more like him, or equal to him.

    The creator of all things, whom made all things.

    There is ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST........... Always been, always has been and always will be with the Father.

    Paul said, God the Father by whom are all things made................. Lord Jesus Christ by Through and because all things were made.

    Paul said though there be gods many, to use there are just TWO.

    TWO

    The Lord Jesus Christ and God the Father.

    Paul said that, I am not making it up. Paul said there are Two Gods to us, though there be many things called gods...............

    For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    (1Co 8:5-6)


    One made it all through and for the son and because of him (Greek Word Dia) One by whom were all things made and consist.

    Jesus is the only (Human) begotten of God by the Word spoke........... We begotten through the Son whom spoke


    All Scriptures say............... that for God made the Worlds through his son and made him Heir of all things sending his son in the last days to speak the Word, and save the World through his son.


    Like a Father that built a business and Gave it to the son who is chief cornerstone of the whole thing.

    Jesus, Like His Father, with the Father, God, just like His father laid down his divine glory the father gave him before the World was made and came in the flesh as a man. God sent his only son to save the Word through Him.

    Jesus Is God, the One and only True God by which the Father gave him all things and is Lord of Lord's.


    Trinity.................. attempted to keep all 3 separate because of these scriptures saying Jesus is the only Begotten of the Father and same essence of the FAther.

    2 Thrones, 2 Gods sit in those thrones our family, Our big Brother and Father.

    Oneness.......... Removes the Son and Holy Spirit............ One God that manifest as 3.

    If you want to call the Holy Spirit God, fine.........................

    For God said I will walk in my people through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is like God just being there, Not God, but it's God's spirit and Rev even talks about the seven spirits of God with Isa.......

    I don't know, I just know the Holy Spirit is the Power side of God in some way and does what he is Told and hears.


    If you lie to someone filled with the Holy Spirit, You lie to God. It's connected like that. It's what Killed Anniaus and sapheriah. (However you spell their names)

    Jesus is God, just like His father, manifest in the Flesh. Just like the Scriptures say.

    Remove your concept of Monotheism.................... (Belief in just One God) and look at the Father and Son whom both are different but the same, one a Advocate on our behalf before the Father, always making intercession for us. He was tempted in all ways, His father can't be tempted. The both even look different in Eze Account and Rev Accounts.

    Now........... when we get to Heaven I am sure lots of things will be cleared up.
     
  15. How can I remove something that's scriptural? How can you make a contradiction of the scriptures? What do you do with these verses?

    "Ye are my witnesses saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me" (Isaiah 43:10).

    "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any" (Isaiah 44:6,8).

    "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:...Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:5,22).

    And Jesus says

    John 10:27-30 (KJV)
    My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. I and [my] Father are one.

    One... One... One... One... again... There are not Two Gods, only One. Answer these verses and tell me how they fit your model. By you saying there are two Gods then you're contradicting the Scriptures.
     
  16. I already Addressed Isiah. I already told you there is only ONE LORD GOD. I don't disagree with that.
    It could be my post are to long and folks just don't feel like reading through all them. I also Gave the NT Scripture that says the same thing. There is ONLY ONE LORD GOD.
    However the Scripture also says there is ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST and I explained this already.

    Let me give you a lesson here. When dealing with other beliefs, different denominations. Ask yourself this. Can this person pull up anything that would refute or put my understanding of a scripture in doubt?

    I look at that all the time. What is the person reading, and how they reading it and are they possibly right. I also might not agree, but understand how they are looking at their scripture.

    Can it be consistently translated to mean the same without deviation?

    Jesus said, I and the Father are One.................... YOUR proof of just ONE, ONE, ONE....... God as you put it.

    I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    (Joh 17:23)

    Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me

    1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

    1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

    Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    So, by your consistent translating of understanding what the Scripture means of being One of something. YOU just made us to be God the Father.
    Since Jesus said I am one with the Father, we are ONE and we are One with Jesus, even His body, then according to you, we are also God the creator.

    Just using your method of looking at scripture and apply it.
    I hope you are starting to understand what Religion does to you. It blinds you and you don't see all.

    your problem is you got some doctrine stuck in you from some bad church somewhere.
    You can't see a Son with the Father, even if I gave you the scriptures.

    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus own words, He was with the Lord God who gave him honor and glory before the earth was even made.
    The son of God was not revealed until the Last days, Jesus words, not mine. We see glimpse of him in the OT.

    Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    How many Lord Gods are here? How many Lord Jesus Christ are here? How many persons does that make it? There is only One Lord God and none like him as Isaiah stated. That does not remove the son however that was with Him before the foundation of the World.

    Once again....... Paul said....... There is one by whom are all things made (God the Father) and there is One through and because all things were made....... (Lord Jesus)

    You don't quote one and ignore 10..................... all the scriptures match!!!!

    One test before I wast to much more time here. A test to make sure Religion has not effected you so bad you forgot how to count.


    Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    How many thrones do you count here?

    If there is ONE GOD, how many thrones does he need and if he needs one for each personality, then where is the Holy Spirits Throne mentioned?

    If there is one God, then why the heck he keep referring to His Father?

    The Apostles 31 times mentioned both God the Father and Lord Jesus Christ. 31 Times!!!

    1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him

    Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    The God OF.........OF..............OF the Lord Jesus Christ........... HIS GOD.

    How many Gods you count in these two scriptures?

    If you lost your ability to even count as some here have whom I have discussed this with, then no need to continue on.

    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    (Joh 17:3)
     
  17. See, this is why I have X'ed out certain people that I go scriptures with. Major, Paul, Gene..

    Because we have warned the flock of this FALSE teaching!!!!!!

    Gene
     
  18. It is my personal conclusion that this discussion is more of a philosophical discussion rather than theological….
     
  19. Jesus has come in the flesh… that’s it.

    this discussion has nothing to do with this verses, imo:

    2 John 1:7
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


    1 John 4:3
    New King James Version (NKJV)
    3 and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
     
  20. "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visit him?
    For you have made him a little lower that Yourself, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
    You have made him to have dominion over the works of your hands; you have put all things under his feet."


    There is only one God, not two or three Gods: and not three persons in God.
    God did not send his son from heaven to the earth; He sent His WORD.
    The Word (commandment) was sent via an angel, and the angel spoke to a virgin girl:
    The Word SPOKEN by the angel entered the womb of the girl and beget/conceived a son:
    The Word, in effect, was veiled in the body of the son.
    This son (body of man) was to be called the Son of God.
    The son (the body of man) "...grew in wisdom...": the only begotten of the Father.
    God (as the Word/Holy Spirit) dwelt in the body of the son.
    The son was led into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil: and overcame temptation.
    The son was sent into the world to preach repentance and the Kingdom of the Father.

    We must make a differentiation between the son and the Word. When the son spoke, he was rejected, and not feared; when the Father spoke in the son, miracles, signs, and wonders took place.
    The glory spoken of the son, Jesus (Jn. 17), was the Word that was sent from eternity; that came and dwelt with man, in the form of man. The Word was made flesh (dressed itself in humanity) through the conception and birth.
    There is only ONE God, who is Spirit and is Holy: and one son begotten of the Father through His commandment.

    "Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." When did Jesus receive this commandment? When it entered into the womb of Mary. But it came not into his (the son of man's) understanding until the time was fulfilled.

    Except a man be born again (conceived of God), he cannot see (understand, perceive, discern) the Kingdom of God."

    Beloved of God, Walk in the Light.
     

Share This Page