Importance of Works?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by TrueChristian1990, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. I agree. Can I expand on this? Heb 11:1 has so many wonderful words which are lost in English. Faith is the "goo" that allows the unseen to become seen. It is "sprayed onto the unseen" via the mouth. Declaration of faith via the mouth from the heart is how faith comes to fruition. Faith is the currency of heaven, as such, all the spirit realm can see it. We too can see it when tuned in, Acts 14:8-10.

    One must collect the word of God in the area you wish to overcome and study them, meditate on them, and then become fully persuaded...

    Romans 4:21 (KJV)
    And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.​

    Speaking the word of God brings faith because when you speak it, it goes into your own ears and since it's coming from your own lips your brain rationalizes that it must be true and starts to tell the heart. This is building up your faith. Then your heart accepts it and you have delivery. All while eliminating the negative thoughts about what the word of God states. This is the process of working out our own salvation! One must be teachable by the Holy Spirit, the Author of the word of God.

    Wow! Thank you Lord!! I need to keep this for myself!
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  2. The Apostle Paul sets the record straight:
    Rom 4:2-8
    2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God.
    3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
    4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
    5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
    6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
    7 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
    8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

    "we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law" Rom 3:28
    In fact
    "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10

    Yes, salvation is free.

    "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:21-24

    As for concerns about one's performance, those whom God saves he also sanctifies as saved people. Once a person is saved God gives them the Holy Spirit that so changes them such that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

    So the suggestion that those who are saved have the ability to go on to live a lifestyle of sin is a strawman argument. It just doesn't happen.
  3. Which also begs the question: if you're still sinning, are you truly saved? Don't get me wrong, we won't cease form sinning over night, but if after years as a professed Christian and you still wrestle with the same sins, it's time to return to the beginning as evaluate if you're in the faith.
  4. #44 Complete, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
    'If we say that we have no sin,
    we deceive ourselves,
    and the truth is not in us.
    If we confess our sins,
    He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    If we say that we have not sinned,
    we make Him a liar,
    and His word is not in us.'

    (1 John 1:8-10)

    Hello there, @Abdicate,

    Sin is dealt with at the cross, the works of faith have nothing to do with sin.

    Faith obedience as manifest in Abraham, was to obey God. It is no different for us,

    'Then said they unto Him,
    "What shall we do,
    that we might work the works of God?"
    Jesus answered and said unto them,
    "This is the work of God,
    that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent."'

    (John 6:28,29)

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus

  5. Indeed that is true, so does that fact give us a license to sin? How is continuing in sin Christ-like?

    2 Peter 2:14 (KJV)
    Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: ​

    I suggest reading the entire chapter of 2 Peter 2. If we cannot overcome, as Jesus promised, then why bother? If we do not teach we must turn from our sinful ways, what's the use in teaching repentance? A little leaven fills the whole lump. This is why so many are so far from the power of God. You cannot have the power of God if you're still fighting sin in your life. This is why so many deny its existence for us today as believers and followers of Christ. As Paul said:

    Romans 6:1-3 (KJV)
    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ​


    1 Corinthians 6:17-20 (KJV)
    But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. ​

    So I reiterate: if you're still sinning, are you truly saved?

    Finally dear sister, we are not sinners because we sin, we're sinners because we're born that way, that's what 1 John 1:10 means. Rightly divide the word of God. Your intentions imply it's ok to sin because, well, we're sinners. That's not what the word of God says. It takes God's word, prayer, faith, trust, time and surrender, learning from the Holy Spirit to overcome sin in our lives. We're free from it, why continue in it? :D
  6. Hello @Abdicate,

    Of course we are to seek to walk worthy of the Lord, in every aspect of our lives.

    The fact that we are no longer under condemnation does not mean that we have licence to sin.

    In Christ Jesus
  7. I'm glad we agree. :)
  8. Many are of the strange opinion that the Apostle Paul and the Apostle James preached two different Gospels, Paul's was totally grace and no works, while James was a mixture of our works plus God's Grace. But they both preach God's Grace plus His own work thru the Spirit in the Christian life.
    8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-9
    Thee two verses are often used mistakenly to try to prove we are not saved by works. But if one reads the following verse by Paul; we see that Paul make a very interesting statement.

    10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    Ephesians 2:10
    So here we see that a Christian is also saved by works, not our own filthy works; Isaiah 64:6. But the works which the Holy Spirit will produce in the True believers heart; Luke 8:15; Matthew 7:15-20; Galatians 5:22-23; Hebrews 6:9-10,
    The Apostle James in James 2 speaks of faith without works being dead, because faith without the Holy Spirit power producing His fruit/work in us is dead and of no use to anyone. Scripture is clear that my salvation is solely base on Jesus finished work, so that i am saved by His gift of grace but His gift also includes the Holy Spirit indwelling me, and Holy Ghost will produce His Own work in every believer, so that in this sense God's Spirit working in us, we are saved or by the Holy Spirit producing His good works in us--see Romans 5:5; Galatians 5:6; I Peter 1:22-25.
  9. Just because Paul used the word 'WORKS' and James used the word 'WORKS' does not mean they were talking about the same WORKS!
    Paul was speaking about works (as of Caine) where by we cannot be saved or BORNagain or justified by them.
    James was speakign about those good works that were preordained before the foundation of the world that we should walk min them .
    An unrighteous man cannot do a righteous work.
    and all his 'works ' are to no avail.
    if a man is then counted righteous through faith in Christ and Gods good work .
    Then he should begin to produce good works of rightoeusness.
    Perhaps the first and foundational one being baptised.

    in christ
  10. Works do not save us. Works are evidence of our salvation.
    The Saints are not referred to as sinners by Jesus in scripture. It is before we find him that we are in sin. Then when we repent of our sins, are redeemed, they are put under the blood and God remembers them no more.
    If God doesn't remember our former sins once we've received Jesus and the baptism of God's Holy Spirit, why would he see that we sin after we come to Christ?
    No, no Christian is perfect. But we are no longer sinners either. That's why the Holy Spirit convicts us when we do wrong. God knows we have erred. We confess it to cleanse our own sense of wrong before the Father.

    God Be Praised!
  11. Our works is what God the Father does (works) through the person who has faith in his Word. Any other action(s) on our part would be called "iniquity" as faith only "works" by love (God) (Gal 5:6)
  12. This new mess hiding under the disguise of "Saved by Faith Alone" is poison and it's destroying real faith by attempting to define "faith" as what you wish for in your head while at the same time teaching that we should despise action consistent with that belief.

    Should we despise the fruit of the spirit? No...

    For instance.... Would Abraham have been called "father of the faithful" if he had never left Ur of the Chaldees? Would "Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness." have been written had he taken no action in response to God's call on his life?

    I think we need to understand "works" in Paul's case as things men do to attempt to compel God into action on their behalf. These "works" are all the things that men do in an attempt to fill up their balance sheet in lieu of trusting God to take care of that end of things.
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  13. I just want to say, what a great thread! I am sorry I did not see it sooner. Praise the Lord.

    "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them" -- John 13:17

  14. I think it's interesting that when you boil it down - a big piece of faith is trying to align your will with God's will and act in that direction. When we do this - God's grace picks up the pieces that we cannot accomplish and the power of the spirit works mightily.

    The interesting thing is that this is when we see things not adding up in a worldly sense. It's "the foolishness of God confounding the wisdom of man." For example - the way to achieve leadership success via the world's ways is not to serve and help those under you but to lord your position over those under you, compel them to serve you, hoard knowledge, and withhold as much as you can for your own good. But when you align yourself with God's will... You end up serving, giving, and helping and people follow you. You achieve great things because of God's mighty hand.... Not because your actions merit success independent of God and His mighty hand.

  15. Any person can have "works" without having any faith at all, but, it is impossible for a person to have true faith without works. This is so true, and we find this through out Christianity were persons have works, but no faith. It is a deception, and it looks cool, holy and just yet it is devoid of power or authority to change any body or anything. The person who has true faith in the Word of God, God will be doing his works through that person, and it does change people, and things!!

    There is a deception that is spreading that says "faith" is just believing without any works connected to it. That is simply not true!! It takes "work" to believe, and have faith. In the Old Testament God told Israel to take possession of the promise land, but before they would be able to enjoy that land they had to first destroy all the enemies in it. The cities had high walls, with castles that were fortified, and they had to be torn, and pulled down. In the new Testament we also have a battle, but our enemies are not just those on the outside, (principalities, powers, wicked spirits in heavenly places) but those on the inside within the human unrenewed mind which are the enemies of God.

    Rom 8:6.. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
    Rom 8:7.. Because the carnal mind is enmity (enemy) against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    The weapons we use are not physical in nature as Israel used against their enemies, our's have divine power to pull down fortress, and castles that have been built, and fortified with in man's mind.

    2Co 10:3.. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
    2Co 10:4.. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
    2Co 10:5.. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

    The word "strong holds" means castles, and fortresses that have been lodged inside man's mind, which is why it calls them imaginations, and thoughts in verse 5. Man can not have faith, and belief until he first pulls these things down, so he becomes "single minded". This takes "work", and it is not easy to accomplish. Man can not enjoy the Kingdom in which he has already been translated man into until he destroys these enemies within himself.
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  16. Indeed one cannot have two masters.

    Good thread


    Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

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