Immaculate Conception

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All right, I am still unclear.

ALL of them are under divine light and guidance

Revelation 1:20New King James Version (NKJV)
20 The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw[a] are the seven churches
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I think I understand what you're trying to suggest now. Are you suggesting that Thyatira is in fact the Catholic Church?

It is a mystery, it can liken to individual, or to group of individuals/organization/church, IF it is to liken to a group of individuals, based on personal opinion, yes....

I visit Catholic Churches as well as Protestant Churches, listen to sermons, I think you agree that the bible, the traditions, the churches, does not save us....
 
Aha, if you are trying to be clever in your responses you are falling short.

Please be clear and plain in your words so that folks can understand what you are trying to say.

I think your question is not clear and plain, can you be more specific?

I am comparing the church in Thyatira to the Catholic Church? yes...
 
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Going back and reading prior posts, I had to connect the dots. It sounds like of the seven Churches of Asia Minor in Revelation, people are making the claim that Thyatira is the Catholic Church. (And I think I remember hearing this argument back in 2010 when a friend of mine made this case--though it's a fuzzy memory).

Though this claim falls apart very easily. To begin , it is a very modern perspective with no basis in the book itself. Nowhere does the Scripture indicates that these seven churches represent seven future periods of Church history, especially since even if I were to grant that the Catholic Church is wrong for argument's sake, it wouldn't be the ONLY wrong Church -- it would be weird to say "they're all right except for this one Church" when they all have different teachings.

Second, this is a pretty arbitrary division of Church history. It could be divided many other ways -- taking into account many more elements and movements than the limited ones presented here.

Moving forward, this is entering into the belief that we are now living in the last days (since Laodicea represents are current era). But that's not sound because we have no idea when Christ will return. God didn't reveal it to us because it is not for us to know (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7) -- But we do know that Christians in every era, since the time of Christ, have thought their era to be end times, and they were obviously wrong. Does it follow only the modern group saying this is right?

The case for Sardis era drops the subject of Catholicism altogether, but that would mean the counter-reformation movement, the Oxford movements, etc. never existed. I'm only suggesting that this isn't sound evidence. Also, Christ's statement that the false prophetess Jezebel told people to "practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols" is said to signify the introduction of pagan practices into Christianity, a charge some non-Catholics bring against the Catholic Church. I don't think this is a fair assessment, Catholicism actively rejects paganism very strongly and always has. It does hold strongly to the Christian teaching however.

It's difficult to accept this notion. However, and this is just me stating what I believe in regards to early Church history, they would technically all have to represent the Catholic Church since there was only church in existence of that time.
 
I think your question is not clear and plain, can you be more specific?

aha, your comments can be difficult to read. I think I finally got what you were trying to say, but only because I've heard the sentiment in the past.

It's easier to discuss if the language is done in simple English.
 
Am not sure why am not clear....

I am comparing Thyatira to the Catholic Church...

It has members who are corrupt, and has members who are not...

Does all the churches Protestant, Orthodox have it as well? So why it is difficult to understand?
 
I think your question is not clear and plain, can you be more specific?

I am comparing the church in Thyatira to the Catholic Church? yes...

Fundies have a nasty habit of making history up as they go along.
I guess it helps to have something to support your views, even if that something is pure fantasy.
 
Fundies have a nasty habit of making history up as they go along.
I guess it helps to have something to support your views, even if that something is pure fantasy.

OK, question: can the Seven Churches be liken to individuals? how we fare?
 
Am not sure why am not clear....

I am comparing Thyatira to the Catholic Church...

It has members who are corrupt, and has members who are not...

Does all the churches Protestant, Orthodox have it as well? So why it is difficult to understand?

No, indeed you are right that you'll find corruption everywhere. But does it follow that Thyatira is the Catholic Church if all sides have may have bad apples? One difference is people who are corrupt and the other is an entire entity that is corrupt out of existence. You wouldn't claim Protestantism is corrupt -- that only people who may be part of Protestant churches are corrupt.
 
OK, question: can the Seven Churches be liken to individuals? how we fare?

No, they cannot be likened to individuals. The letters were to the leadership of the seven churches, as the text in Revelations plainly states.
Trying to make something symbolic and far reaching out of it is being dishonest with the text.
 
Like us, Christians, who accepted Jesus Christ as our light and guidance...
Catholics ARE Christians.

You know, I was one of the ones trying to keep this thread going so we could keep working out and discussing our differences, but I'm begging the admins to give it a mercy killing as soon as possible. The amount of anti-Catholic hate on here is absolutely palpable.
 
Going back and reading prior posts, I had to connect the dots. It sounds like of the seven Churches of Asia Minor in Revelation, people are making the claim that Thyatira is the Catholic Church. (And I think I remember hearing this argument back in 2010 when a friend of mine made this case--though it's a fuzzy memory).

Though this claim falls apart very easily. To begin , it is a very modern perspective with no basis in the book itself. Nowhere does the Scripture indicates that these seven churches represent seven future periods of Church history, especially since even if I were to grant that the Catholic Church is wrong for argument's sake, it wouldn't be the ONLY wrong Church -- it would be weird to say "they're all right except for this one Church" when they all have different teachings.

Second, this is a pretty arbitrary division of Church history. It could be divided many other ways -- taking into account many more elements and movements than the limited ones presented here.

Moving forward, this is entering into the belief that we are now living in the last days (since Laodicea represents are current era). But that's not sound because we have no idea when Christ will return. God didn't reveal it to us because it is not for us to know (Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:7) -- But we do know that Christians in every era, since the time of Christ, have thought their era to be end times, and they were obviously wrong. Does it follow only the modern group saying this is right?

The case for Sardis era drops the subject of Catholicism altogether, but that would mean the counter-reformation movement, the Oxford movements, etc. never existed. I'm only suggesting that this isn't sound evidence. Also, Christ's statement that the false prophetess Jezebel told people to "practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols" is said to signify the introduction of pagan practices into Christianity, a charge some non-Catholics bring against the Catholic Church. I don't think this is a fair assessment, Catholicism actively rejects paganism very strongly and always has. It does hold strongly to the Christian teaching however.

It's difficult to accept this notion. However, and this is just me stating what I believe in regards to early Church history, they would technically all have to represent the Catholic Church since there was only church in existence of that time.
I believe you will find all seven churches present throughout history. Does one particular church dominate in a given period of history? Maybe, but history can be stretched to fit over many different theories.
 
Catholics ARE Christians.

You know, I was one of the ones trying to keep this thread going so we could keep working out and discussing our differences, but I'm begging the admins to give it a mercy killing as soon as possible. The amount of anti-Catholic hate on here is absolutely palpable.

be focus, you are out of line... I just edited it just for you....
 
No, they cannot be likened to individuals. The letters were to the leadership of the seven churches, as the text in Revelations plainly states.
Trying to make something symbolic and far reaching out of it is being dishonest with the text.

Thanks, I accept that. it is valid, it makes sense.

Am easy to convince if it logically presented....
 
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