I'm Confused

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by mattjanes, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. What would you think of a Father who could help his child as it is drowning but just watches and does nothing? What would you think of a Father who watched his son/daughter get raped, tortured, and murdered, and have all the ability to to intervene but instead just watches and cries and says, "i love you, i'm sorry"?

    God is our Father and he can help all these people. He's extremely wealthy, extremely strong, and all knowing, yet refuses to even answer my simple questions for instruction on what to do with my life and who to trust.

    All im asking is that he would direct me and give me some instruction. I dont want it to come from a book. I want it to come from a Father/Mother/God.
  2. Simplistic answer I know but I think he wants us to see the sadness in this world and to question.

    It's hardest when it is you either directly or someone you care for.

    You probably won't believe me on this but the last time I was on a hospital detox. I got really angry with Christ and said to him you can see the chain of events that led up to this, why did you let this break, why did you let this peson do this, why did allow this person to behave this way, I know enough to know I was under assault. If this is all you have to offer I'll jump into the Waveney (river in Nowich UK) tonight.

    Somehow, He seemed to say to me. "I've been with you every step and I'll stay with you" (not that quelled my anger and my annoyance at the time).

    Sometimes we don't understand why someone else suffers. Sometimes (even when we see some of our own failings) we don't understand why we ourself suffers. We ask for the type of answers you (and I) want but somehow you've got to try to believe he never forsakes anyone:

    christianbacktobasics likes this.
  3. You are confused. We have free will and so do others, so bad things happen. God could stop all of them but He doesn't want robots. Just because He doesn't stop those things doesn't mean He is at fault in any way.
    Dave Lucas and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  4. I didnt say he wants robots. If he guides me and answers some questions and simply tell that child "dont get in the car with that serial killer", that is not a violation of free will.

    Ted Bundy and other serial killers would create a cast around their arm or leg or pretend to be injured. Find a kind soul that would get them to help with whatever and get in the car and they would be taken out in the middle of nowhere to be humiliated, tortured, raped, terrorized, and murdered.

    If God loves those victims he could have simply told them, "this man doesnt need help, he's a con artist". An act of kindness and charity cost these people their lives!!

    Serial Victims were often the kindest and sweetest people. People that would get into the vehicle of some "poor injured person" and be transported wherever to help him move whatever...and that is what they get?!? A humiliating inhumane death for an act of kindness?

    A father who just watches and cries and doesnt speak up?
  5. Maybe they don't pray? Maybe they aren't Christians? Maybe God gave them a gut feeling and they didn't listen? You know what a lot of rape victims say after the fact? That they knew that something bad was going to happen. That they knew the guy was creepy. They say things like that all the time.

    God may love everyone but we don't listen most of the time when He gives us signs. If we don't listen or pay attention then He won't help us.
  6. We want something. Whatever the thing is; money, girlfriend/boyfriend, good job, ...you name it. God answers often with "no" or "wait until you are ready", but the only answer we want is "yes" or "here is the direction to get what you want". We don't like "no" and we go for it anyway. We don't like "wait" and we go ahead anyway. We don't even like "here is the direction to get what you want" because it isn't how we want to do it. And when we get the "yes", we mess it up and are worse off and blame God. I wanted a nice Camaro when I was 19 years old. I got one, and wrecked it in one month. I was not ready. I wanted a certain girl and God gave her to me and I married her. I'm divorced from her cause I messed things up with my attitude. God knows what is best for us and we do it our own way and get ourselves in trouble. God has given us power in this life to affect things. We use this power improperly most of the time, and some abuse others with it. If God stepped in every time to stop this, we would no longer have this power or this life, and the purpose He created us for would be meaningless. If there was no bad, the good things would be ordinary and the thrill of life would turn into mousey blah.
  7. The 'book' is God's word. Everything you need to know is in there. For example...

    The word is God:

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    Why God can't help, hear all:

    Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
    John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
    John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
    Matt 6:24 No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    Why God does not jump through hoops / come to us on 'our' terms:

    Matt 16:24 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
  8. How can a Father help a child who has left Him? If you leave your father, move far away, and never communicate with him, how is he to know you need help?
  9. Except that the kids things Father is not watching him.. But the kid escaped the presence of Father and wants to swim in the water himself.. And not being equipped, he is drowning..
  10. I think to ask WHY is there suffering in the world is a poignant one.

    God may help some of us physically, and that's always a good thing, but what's especially important is God helping us spiritually.
    I am reminded of Mark 2:1-12 where some people brought Jesus a paralyzed man to be healed. Before he is healed physically, Jesus says "Son, your sins are forgiven." After that, Jesus made it so he could walk again.

    While making someone able to walk again is incredible, the bigger miracle was his sins being forgiven.

    God, while there could even be times where it seems He has gone silent, doesn't abandon. And the evil in the world that takes place isn't due to God, but due to man. Though anyone who accepts God will especially find Him.

    But what about heaven and hell? If someone has rejected God, while God wants them to be in heaven with Him, He won't force anyone into His presence because He loves them, and love can only be freely given.

    Think of some guy, Jack, who is pursing a girl, Jill. Let's say Jack keeps pursing Jill and Jill says "No way, Jack...I only like you as a friend." And Jack keeps going and even tells Jill that he loves her, and she still says no...wouldn't you agree it is ridiculous for Jack to say, "OK Jill -- I will force you to love me."? He can't do that. And if Jack really loves Jill, he would respect her wishes and leave her to her own devices, even if it hurts him.

    This is God's response to anyone who rejects Him. He will continue to love us, but He won't force anyone to love Him.

    So for all of the suffering, it can only be caused by a rejection of Him, but anyone who hasn't rejected him, even if suffering occurs, doesn't last forever.
    Tropicalbound and Big Moose say Amen and like this.
  11. I dont pray to God for material things but for wisdom to do his will and know it and not beconused (clarity). He refuses to grant even that.
  12. I spent many hours in agony crying out to God for some simple instruction on how to do his will. He refused and left me in darkness and confusion. His word returned void and I saw it for myself when he promised it wouldn't.
    autumn oddity likes this.
  13. Lysander,
    is that a Catholic Saint in your avatar. He looks very familiar. Who is he.

    I havent rejected God. When something good happens I try to always say thank you Jesus.

    In regard to the rest of your post, I addressed it in previous posts. I would love God if He is faithful to His word and would stop letting people be tortured for all eternity for what they did with this one second, short, confusing life.
  14. From my experience, those claim that God refuses to speak to them are not listening. It is a small, still voice, He does not shout, He should not need to.

    People are "tortured for all Eternity" do to the evil habits developed over an entire lifetime (decades), not for acts that occurred in a supposed "one second, short , confusing life".
    An average person is awake for roughly 900 to 1000 minutes each day. You'd think with all the rediculous amounts of time given to us to think things over that some folks would take the time to search out God's will.
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  15. I think it's safe to call him a saint, though he hasn't been canonized as a saint yet (meaning the Catholic Church hasn't recognized his sainthood officially), but he has been beatified. His name is John Henry Newman (hence JHN). I have a sort of kinship with him since we have both come to Catholicism in a very similar way. Probably the same with Tolkien too. But he was an Anglican reverend at Oxford University in the 1800s and became a Cardinal. He's a fascinating guy and his writings about Jesus are incredible.

    I'm not suggesting you rejected God, though when I say "you" or "I" did, I mean mankind did. Even though mankind did, we have an opportunity to accept him regardless.

    I think God is being faithful to His word. I'll assume when you mention torture, you are talking about hell. I think you're asking a good question and one that probably all of us have asked at least once or twice -- I know I have.

    Maybe 3 things have to be defined to get a good understanding...1) what is Love? (Baby don't hurt me), 2) What is evil? 3) What is hell?

    To say "God is love" isn't just some poetic phrase, it's an factual phrase. God is literally love in that love can and only comes from God. God is also goodness.

    What is evil? Evil is like darkness in that darkness isn't so much a thing as a lack of something--a lack of light. Evil isn't a thing but a lack of something--a lack of goodness, and goodness only really coming from God. God doesn't want people to lack Him, but people may reject Him and "lack" Him anyway. And when this happens, because God won't force anyone into His presence, hell is literally a quarantine of evil.

    Now many of us here have a different perspective on what happens to people after death. I believe in God's mercy and if someone was legitimately seeking truth which ultimately would lead to God, I think out of His mercy, He would deliver that person to Him. Though if someone actively, intentionally, and consciously rejected God, then God wouldn't force that person into His presence.
  16. This life is one second compared to eternity. The time should fit the crime. A hundred thousand yours of wailing and being burned head to toe in flames should be more than enough for 80 years of sin.

    That is more than a thousand years of suffering for every year of sin. they deserve a second chance. People change.
  17. I could be flippant and say "don't do the crime if you can't do the time", but that would be flippant, and a bit over the top.
    What exactly God has in store in the long run for those who defy Him is really none of our affair. I, as a peasant, have no right to tell the King how to run His kingdom. I have only a ignorant and vague inkling of what is going on, whereas He knows what is going on in exhaustive detail.

    If you want to know the "whys and hows" of reality, I would suggest to put aside the whining and complaining and get to work actually becoming a better and wiser person to become closer to God so that He may instruct you personally.
    That's how the Saints do it and it's worked out wondrously well for them.
    autumn oddity likes this.

  18. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” Epicurus

    If we were talking about a human they'd probably be liable for arrest for depraved indifference manslaughter.

    But we're talking God here.
    I think it's the Gnostics who said that God created all things in our reality and the left everything to survive, or fail, while imbued with the mechanics he installed into each and every thing so that it's destiny could be decided according to free will.

    You're asking a question that people of faith have asked probably since the beginning of such things. And every answer will be informed by circular logic. That's why in the end it's all called faith.

    Of course, there is a difference between religion and faith in Jesus. Maybe look to the big picture in your model there.

    If a father stands idle and watches their living human child drown and that father does not save the child, what does it say about the father and child?
    The father should have taught the child how to swim. The father should have made every effort to save the child. But if the father stands there and does nothing but welcome the spirit of the dead child home after they inhale the water that fills their lungs and kills their human life, is that evil?
    What is preferred? This world, where Satan is lord and prowls seeking souls to devour? Or paradise for eternity?

  19. I've already told you about different beliefs for the afterlife but you refuse to listen. You'd prefer to think God is some hateful being that's sole purpose is to make our lives harder.
  20. #20 Big Moose, Jul 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
    It is clear you are not close to the Father. That is why you don't hear Him. You must trust that He knows what He is doing, first. It is a very difficult thing, indeed, to help a person to change from "God must make sense to me" to "I will do it God's way." Amen

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