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I'm confused about the Trinity...

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by salazar, Aug 29, 2011.

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  1. mistmann

    mistmann Active Member

    Some of them seem to be talking more about ME than the topic. :rolleyes:
  2. Arius

    Arius Inactive

    You're dodging the question. It's not if Jesus and the Father are separate persons, but that you believe they are separate beings. And, that you may believe in the existence of innumerable gods.

    Who do you think is the most important person, since after the first century, in defining true Christianity?
  3. Glomung

    Glomung Well-Known Member

    I would ignore or avoid the use of the word "elohiym" altogether, from what
    Strong's has to say the meaning is so vague as to be useless. See below.
    It can be used to refer to any person or persons who are of authority or
    of a spiritual nature or divine.

    The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon





    Strong's Number: 0430



    Original Word Word Origin
    ~yhla plural of (0433)
    Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
    'elohiym TWOT - 93c
    Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
    el-o-heem' Noun Masculine

    Definition
    1. (plural)
      1. rulers, judges
      2. divine ones
      3. angels
      4. gods
    2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
      1. god, goddess
      2. godlike one
      3. works or special possessions of God
      4. the (true) God
      5. God
  4. mistmann

    mistmann Active Member

    You seem to have a strange definition of "dodging"

    But judge for yourself what the Bible declares to be true. It declares Jehovah sits upon the throne while Jesus stands before it. It declares Jehovah sits upon HIS throne and offers Jesus a seat at His right hand. It declares Jesus sits at the right hand of Jehovah. It declares the Father offers Jesus the scroll and Jesus takes it from His hand. It declares Jesus is brought to appear before the ancient of days. It declares all things are placed under Jesus EXCEPT the one who places all thing under Him (meaning Jehovah Himself). Jesus declares that He does NOT do His OWN will but only the will of His Father. As Jesus is being baptised in the Jordan below the Father is speaking from Heaven above. While Jesus stands transfigured on Earth the Father speaks to the Apostles from Heaven. JESUS HIMSELF declares His Father is the only true God but not Himself for He says "THOU the only true God". and so on, and so on, and so on, ....

    To teach they are the same person/being you must contadict the word of God itself and declare it to be untrue. THAT is why it was a heretical teaching to the churches of the Apostles themselves.

    I do not know who YOU think is "the most important person, since after the first century, in defining true Christianity". But it is totally irrelevant to the issue. THIS I do know - not a SINGLE one of them is more important than the Prophets and Apostles of the Lord HIMSELF in defining what is true and what is not! I will continue to test the word of ALL and EVERY man against THEIR written and preserved word to see if it is true or not just as Jesus and the Apostles taught me to do.

    People can batter me about the head with all sorts of accusations as long as they like but I will ALWAYS call upon the independent witness of the words of the Lord Himself as the ultimate and final authority of truth. Anybody who teaches contrary to the word of God does not have the authority of God to teach it. A true follower of Christ will not do it even under pain of death let alone mere verbal abuse. I am sure (although a little less sure these days) that everybody here has their own copy of the word of God. THEY can judge our words for themselves against what the Lord has declared to be true.
  5. mistmann

    mistmann Active Member

    Thank you Glomung for confirming the truth of my words by providing an independent authority for the meaning of the Hebrew word "elohiym". HOWEVER if you want to avoid the issue by not using the word that the Lord Himself uses then you will also have to avoid using the word "GOD" altogether also. "GOD" is the English translation of "ELOHIYM" you cannot eliminate one without eliminating the other.

    I think the much better solution is for everybody to pay heed to what the Lord Himself has declared to be the truth BY THE WORDS HE choses to use. We cannot go around changing the words of the Bible because we do not want to believe the truth they speak of. To change the meanings of the words of the Bible will not save those who teach contrary to it. The LORD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF has spoken. You can accept it or reject it but you cannot change it for the words belong to the Lord, not to man. He will judge by what He has WRITTEN, not by the way we have chosen to "interpret" it.
  6. Banarenth

    Banarenth Sr Mod/Webmaster Staff Member

    I'm going to end this topic here. Salazar is not around as far as I can tell and this topic has degenerated way past the point of a "friendly Christian discussion".
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