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I'm An Athiest!! (this Is Hard Being A Christian Part 2)

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Lifeasweknowit, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. I need yawls help. Love ya'll btw.

    The more I began to profess my love for Jesus and the more I begin to talk about him, the more I'm learning about those who don't love him or downright state that his existence was a lie. Worse, that he was a man, but not the son of God.

    Sometimes I don't know if I can make this. I don't discipline myself enough to read the bible because every time I do, I will see a discrepancy of the wording or story, which will make me question things. When I question things, I step away from things that make me question Him. Hence, the bible or even sometimes this site. Then I just pray..."Lord, give me truth. Show me who you truly are. Help me not to loose my faith."

    I come on here for fellowship, which I love, but even many of you can't agree on the interpretation of parts (sometimes significant sections) of the bible. One day I will hear about how you are to take the word for what it is and you either follow it or you don't, the next I hear that it should be taken in "context" or actually this word doesn't mean that word, etc. For a new believer, this is tough, but I'm still here...still sticking it out. I notice a lot of newbies who say hello and then disappear.

    My friend told me the other day that when people have divine dreams or things that made them realize their God was real to them, the God appears in the way they know Him. So for example, those who believe in Mohammad have been saved in the name of Mohammed. Same goes for Allah, Buddha, etc. This was probably the most profound thing I have heard from an atheist that actually made me step back and think....

    Is my faith wavering? No. I know God exists, but how do I know it's MY God. I mean I know, but how do I explain that to an unbeliever who poses the above?

    If God gives free will and someone is not allotted that free will because they never heard about Him, why would he send them to hell as some of you believe?***Are you saying that our loving God and Savior would not only have a little child be punished by being forced to stay in a cage her entire life, raped by her dad, never seeing a TV or book, never knowing about God, and then to add insult to injury, Our God would cast her into hell for not accepting Christ when she never knew of Him?

    Please answer with solid supporting documentation/sources. Please do not assume or interpret things in your own way. I want my faith to strengthen, which it certainly has, but I want it to stay that way. Sometimes, as I said, I come on here only to ask more questions as I leave.

    Thank you.
     
  2. I think there may be some confusion with the my headline. I am NOT an atheist.

    One other thing I wanted to ask, is if any of you had done extensive research in other religions as well as atheism. This is commendable in my opinion and I would love for you to share.
     
  3. Code:
    My friend told me the other day that when people have divine dreams or things that made them realize their God was real to them, the God appears in the way they know Him. So for example, those who believe in Mohammad have been saved in the name of Mohammed. Same goes for Allah, Buddha, etc. This was probably the most profound thing I have heard from an atheist that actually made me step back and think....
    
    Ive always seen you as a christian and a good one at that going from yur posts.

    Dont let your doubts win you over. As for the Mohammad/ budda (made of wood by a craftsman) thing that is the devil doing that because if it will help us to turn away from Jesus then hes done his job(yeah here i go with the devil thing again) But you do believe he exist right? Some christians think otherwise. Theres a God and a devil a heaven and hell, both want us desperately. One for eternal life the other to take us away from eternal life from God thats why we have a choice

    One of the devils best tools he loves to use against christians is turning us away from Him, don't let a good thing be a waste of time.Ask Jesus for help.

    Anyway i got blessed today and salvation, so ther is no way im gonna fall:)
     
  4. What are you looking for Tink? "Religion" or liberty? There's plenty of religion on every street corner. What does Christ offer that no one else does?

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
     
  5. just read your 2nd post. Ok.
     
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  6. After I got saved-I got my hands on my old NIV Bible that I received when I became a member of the Presbyterian Church in my hometown. I was given a Bible comparison pamphlet and started checking out the differences in versions and was shocked to discover some things in my NIV Bible. I settled on the KJV eventually and solidified my position there.

    In that same time period, I started investigating 'other' religions. I quickly turned away from them as a baby Christian recognizing that there was no need to study them at that time. For example: I was given a 'The Book of Mormon" and made it to chapter 2 and decided it was enough. (No offense please Mormons). I picked up bits and pieces of other religions over the years-but never committed to any full study as I still consider myself a baby Christian. I am not prepared to argue or debate other religions-there is no commandment in the Bible for that that I know of. However, the Bible does tell us to be prepared to answer for our faith. Therefore, I think it prudent to get a firm grasp on the Gospel first, and then the history and law second.
     
  7. I have to agree with Dirty: first things first.

    I spent years investigating other religions and can talk with people of almost any religion with no problems because I know what they understand and their religions history.....

    BUT.....Having accumulated all that knowledge BEFORE I gave my heart to Christ did not in any way lead me to Him.

    Error has no redeeming quality; it just sinks an unsaved person deeper into the mud.
     
    Dirtyrottensinner likes this.
  8. I really hope these^ get addressed. Thank you all so far for the posts.
     
  9. It's not about what Christ offers...please understand I already know all of this...I tried explaining it to my friends. I know I wrote a long post everyone, but please look at the meat of what I'm getting at.
     
  10. A book by C.S.Lewis called Mere Christianity shows how a brilliant atheist became an even more brilliant christian. Lewis had to be convinced logically and ,logically speaking, he found he simply must fall to his knees and confess "my Lord and my God". I highly recommend that book.
    Walking on a daily basis, you might want to do a study on the full armor of God. There are some pretty "spacey" explanations of it so beware of those who equate it with salvation. It's about getting through our day as Christians and the armor is the tool by which to get through your day and to deal with unbelievers.
    Put on Christ everyday. Have a relationship with Him. Don't just pray to Him while on your knees. Contemplate His words. Talk with Him as you go about your day. Ask Him questions. Learn to wait on Him. Submit your life.
    As far as "playing in the mud", by which I mean delving into other religions, philosophies, or other worldly "wisdoms", you should concentrate on the Word. The Lord says "My people perish for a lack of knowledge". So it is very important to know what our Lord has to say about each of our individual lives.
    This is how I look at the things of the world anymore......If you place a baby in a park left unattended, that baby will even pick up and eat dog poop if no one intervenes. The baby just doesn't know or even appreciate the consequences of their actions. We are much like this spiritually. We get ourselves involved in things because we are ignorant of the consequences, especially as unbelievers and frequently as new Christians. We are curious by nature.
    As the baby matures it knows not only to not eat the poop, but to avoid it altogether. We mature spiritually as well. We learn not to put ourselves in situations that tempt our Lord. I used to love a good horror movie. No more. I used to look at pretty women. No more. I used to study cults. No more.
    I know I simplified my walk to a dog poop analagy but I always do that sort of thing(simplification) for my own benefit and teaching my kids. Don't mean to insult anyones' intelligence....just my own.
    Now. If you feel called to minister to those in cults or others religions then, by all means, you should research other beliefs in order to help pull others out of that quagmire into a relationship with Christ. A few years back I thought of studying Islam. But now I ask myself "why bother?" I know the Truth through Christ and thats all that really matters to me. I want to know Him until every last bit of doubt has been erased. I won't get that through distraction. That's all anything else is .....distraction....it's just playing in the sewer.
    One analogy of knowing the Lord's Word goes like this. A bank teller is trained to initially detect counterfeit money by it's feel. The teller gains this feel not by handling counterfeit money, but by handling ligitimate currency. After a time of handling the real deal, a teller can identify the fake immediately by a touch.
    We should strive to know our Lord's Word in much the same way. If we immerse ourselves in Him, then we will know by feel that which is in error.
    I'll pray for you and please pray for me as well.
     
    Dirtyrottensinner likes this.
  11. Lifeasweknowit,

    I know how you feel. Really I do. I question things daily. When I see pyramids all over the world and on the planet Mars, it makes me question why? It makes me question how the Sumerians knew our solar system without telescopes. How can they of lifted these stones for these walls and pyramids when we have to build massive machinary to do it today and still probably be so precise on the cuts. How can a stone be cut so precise to build a wall that you couldn't put a human hair between the gaps of the rock?

    It doesn't make me question God, but question our history. There is proof that man and dinosaur walked together, whether there is carvings of them in rock, or human footprints with dinosaur prints on a fossilized river bed. Just like scientist do today, we come up with a theory or utopia to try to explain things. We have no way of knowing since many civilizations didn't record the things we do today, like daily weather, events, and so on.

    My thoughts on things is we lost our knowledge of many things. It was wiped clean and we are trying to find our way back to God, by testing our hearts daily and keeping our eyes on Him and the promises He gave. Weeding out the ones that don't love Him. I look back on my life and all I have been through and still am going through, or when I bring things up in the forum I am constantly being kicked down. I get back up. I keep seeking and praying.

    We all seek answers. I haven't looked outside the christian beliefs. That is all that I have grown to know. We will find things in the Bible that have discrepancy of the wording or story. Could it be because it was misinterpreted or the word used in the original was changed. This will throw off any story. There are gaps in the bible like I have stated before. That is why I go outside the bible and read other text like the Book of Enoch.

    You are doing what you feel is right. Always ask questions and seek answers. Without reading into things and researching you will always be left in disbelief. Once you start understanding the truth then that is when you get excited and get the zeal to know more and more. Don't give up. I have faith in you.
     
  12. I'll just make a couple of comments.

    I will see a discrepancy of the wording or story, which will make me question things

    Remember that the Bible is written about God, not by God. It is mainly history, and as such can be trusted.
    The many authors were writing down their experiences and what they heard of at the time. If some things seem contradictory, remember that the authors were not writing their doctoral dissertations, they were trying to provide commentary on the experiences in their lives.

    when people have divine dreams or things that made them realize their God was real to them

    People often make bad assumptions on worse evidence. A dream and a fiver may get you a cup of coffee.
    Dreams come from many sources, almost all of them are completely invalid. A very poor source for doctrine of any kind.

    If God gives free will and someone is not allotted that free will because they never heard about Him, why would he send them to hell

    How God deals with the innocent pagans is not directly addressed in scripture. But, nobody ends up in Hell until they have "refused Christ". So, at some time or other each person will have the opportunity to make that choice, and until that choice is freely made, none go to Hell.

    You need to be patient with yourself, Rome was not built in a day.
     
    KingJ and Rusty say Amen and like this.
  13. I want to encourage you to continue to examine beliefs and theories and all that until you feel comfortable with the beliefs you hold. People will tell you that "if you don't believe this-or-that doctrine than you're not a christian"... but that is not necessarily the case. Believe it or not, outside of our American evangelicalism, there are other beliefs within the Christian religion! ;)

    In regard to God giving us freewill, does he? In regard to sending us to everlasting hell, does he? Your points are good points. They are points that I brought up to myself. Every honest Christian needs to ask that question. I feel like explaining everything to you in a long thread would just be another set of beliefs to look at. I just want to encourage you to find what you think sounds right, and then go from there in refining those ideas. Some of our greatest church fathers were staunch advocates of the role of doubt in our lives.

    I will share my ideas on some of the issues you brought up if you would like. I will also provide, if you want, some resources for study if you would like, that aren't just "don't let doubt win" diatribes. For now I'll just stick to encouragement :)
     
  14. My friend told me the other day that when people have divine dreams or things that made them realize their God was real to them, the God appears in the way they know Him. So for example, those who believe in Mohammad have been saved in the name of Mohammed. Same goes for Allah, Buddha, etc. This was probably the most profound thing I have heard from an atheist that actually made me step back and think....

    I purposely posted Romans 1 scripture to address some of your questions. Did you absorb anything from the scripture?

    If God gives free will and someone is not allotted that free will because they never heard about Him, why would he send them to hell as some of you believe?***Are you saying that our loving God and Savior would not only have a little child be punished by being forced to stay in a cage her entire life, raped by her dad, never seeing a TV or book, never knowing about God, and then to add insult to injury, Our God would cast her into hell for not accepting Christ when she never knew of Him?

    From the beginning, the 'creation' has been aware of the 'creator'.

    Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    We -the creation- ALL know in our hearts there is a God. Yet since the beginning He was been rejected by us. How many times would you like our God of Power to repeat Himself?

    We live in a fallen sinful world-because of the curse of Adam & Eve (Genesis 3). WE -the creation-got kicked out of the Gardenbecause of the sin of our ancestors -not because God wanted to be mean. But because God MUST maintain His Holiness; regardless of the creations habits. Do you even have the beginning of comprehension to the Power that we have access too? I don't....but I know I want that access. I don't want to be denied eternity with Him.

    Here's an exercise to play in your mind: put yourself in Eve's (or Adam's) shoes pre-sin. That is where we are supposed to be when we are born. Instead, we are in this corrupted Earth. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WAY. But God was not the one to force the creation into sin. Were Adam & Eve ALLOWED to be tempted? YES> Else we would not have free will.

    Now for Jesus Christ. I believe through FAITH that Jesus Christ is the foretold 'Messiah' throughout the history of the Hebrews/ Jews who is also GOD manifest in human flesh. God-humiliated Himself to reach out to His creation and prove that He is willing to give all to save us from separation by hanging on the cross. Would you go through what Christ did for a bunch of ungrateful people that rejected you?Most sane people don't have a problem with the existence of Jesus Christ as a human being-but A LOT of people want to argue that He was ONLY a man-minus the paternity of the Father (God) through the Holy Spirit.

    So if you want to be upset with someone-it would have to be Adam's fault; however, would any of us be here today if Adam had not sinned? I have no idea.....Are you angry at God for His creation for which He has domain and Authority over?
     
  15. Post #14 Continued: (Apparently I rambled to much)

    If God had not created us where would we be? Instead of darkness there IS Light, instead of void-there IS Life.

    The truth of the matter is, you ask some very difficult questions that even seasoned and aged Christians struggle with. Why does God allow this nonsense to continue? Quite frankly-nobody knows. The best answer we can give is 'love'. And it seems contrary to the evil that is prevailing in this Earth. But maybe that is the point-God IS contrary to this Earth. The world runs on wickedness-whereas the Lord operates in love. As feeble humans-who are we to determine WHEN the clock stops ticking? Do we see all that God sees? We ARE NOT HIM and He has a purpose for us. When do we say tomorrow is not worth another soul saved?

    In my opinion-I think the clock stops on the first day that there is no one left breathing that will profess the name of the Lord on this Earth. Saved or not-humans are responsible for carrying the message of the Gospel: it's not about the messenger-it is about THE MESSAGE.

    As Glomung stated-we don't know what God's plans are for the lost innocents. But from what I know about God-and what I know about how little we actually know-no matter how much science, debate or theology we accumulate-we will NEVER garner the knowledge and wisdom of God on this Earth.

    Again, in my opinion-I think the God of Love has a purpose for those souls that we just can't wrap our minds around. We tinker in the physical realm of knowledge, and yet the wisest of the wise cannot produce the wisdom of God's spiritual domain. We are all but babes...
     
    Rusty likes this.
  16.  

  17. This does not address what I'm saying. Anyone can say God is Allah or Mohammad if they've never come to know OUR God and Jesus Christ. So yes, based on the magnificence of the earth, etc. we know there is A God, but who that God is (if they never knew of the bible, etc.-See my post to G.) then naturally, their God will be different.
     
  18. What about Krishna or other Christ like figures who pre-date Jesus?


    Remember, don't mistake my questions for disbelief.
     
  19. Has anyone else claimed to be the Son of God AND performed miracles AND provided a plan of salvation from the human condition? Tink I am not sure you what you want me to tell you. I have not studied Krishna- but what little I know about Hinduism-I think they pretty much worship everything the imagination can conjure. What I know about Buddha is that it is agnostic -seeking after knowledge to attain spiritual freedom.

    If you believe the Bible-God predates everything. Since Krishna & Buddha were both created by God-maybe they were false prophets of the early history of the Earth-post flood. Are you wanting to argue historical timelines & discrepancies, origins of religions dates? This I am not knowledgeable enough to debate. I believe the Bible-I am sticking to it and not turning back. I have other things on my plate rather than trying to research and prove 7000 years of human history.

    I put my faith in the validity of the Bible-if I am wrong-well I guess when I die I will know then. Perhaps someone else here is better equipped to answer your questions in comparative religious practices and history? My concern is the Gospel.

    I guess what I wanted you to see is that the Bible clearly states that everything is from God. Personally, I don't trust much history anymore in the secular world seeing how easy it is to manipulate it. You could say the same about the Bible if you wish; it is again-a personal choice.

    I chose not to battle people on 'religion'. If they want to know about the gift God gave me-I am happy to share. My apologies for me inability to answer your questions....

    As far as calling out to another God-well I think the Bible is pretty clear on that issue. Consider this; Islam was started 900 years after Christ-they heard the Gospel-so what then do you think happens when it is rejected?
     
  20. 18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
     

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