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If God Knows Everything Why Do We Evangelize?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Lifeasweknowit, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Sometimes I don't feel as though I am saved. Satan loves to tell me that...or is it him? Am I really saved? If God has the Book of Life and knows what is going to happen, who says that because I accept Jesus as my savior that means I am truly going to heaven. Jesus also said "I never knew you..."

    Why do I struggle with this and the fear of death if Jesus is within me. Why do we spread the word if God already knows who is going to enter the kingdom of heaven.

    I hate more than anything to doubt my faith. I pray I do not doubt my faith. I truly believe in Jesus. I'm tired or worrying about dying, whether I am saved, if this is all real, and all of these questions that I feel sometimes pulls me further away from God.

    Does anyone else struggle with this and if so, how have you dealt with it? Oh, and please answer the subject question as best as you can...

    Thank you so very much in advance~
     
  2. Good question :). God does NOT know who will accept and reject Him. He knows everything that is to be known. Our choice is not something to be known. He does what pleases Him and giving us true free will pleases Him. It would also imply that He is a respecter of persons as He would surely know who would go to hell. The bible says on MANY occasions that He is NO respecter of persons. We do have true free will. That is a fundamental belief of Christianity. God has got hope for all the living to come to Him.

    As for why He uses us, well, how does a rich man find a bride? He chooses to work through us and not appear as a burning bush to the unsaved. We are given the honour and opportunity to serve Him and be rewarded in heaven.

    Our salvation is something we need to be 100% certain of. It is very possible to as you said think we are saved but not be saved! Consider these 2 verses and especially the underlined.

    John 10:27
    27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me

    Matthew 16:13-17
    13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
     
  3. Hello LIFE! May I say to you taht you are wadding out into "deep" waters here. We are approaching the doctrine of Election. Strap in and hold on because this can get a little rough.

    With all due respect for my dear friend KingJ, I believe that God does in fact know all things including who will be saved when called.

    Ephesians 1:4-5............
    According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.....Having predestinatedus unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

    Election does not mean that God merely knew who would believe and on that basis elected them. The great Bible preacher and teacher, D. L. Moody thought that election meant this:..........
    "God chose me for himself, but the devil chose me for himself. My choice is the tie-breaker."

    Consider this, Election does not do away with human responsibility. Each person is held responsible before Almighty God as to what they will do with his Son.

    "There are unsaved people alive today, who, though elect, are now lost and will not be saved until they believe."1 Cf. Ephesians 2:3.

    Election is necessary because we are totally depraved sinners. In other words, we would not choose God unless he first chose us.

    Non-believers are sceen as unable to do or think anything which would move them one step closer to God. There is nothing they can do or say which would please God.

    That fact is confirmed in Romans 3:10-23 and Ephesians 4:17-19. In fact, non-believers are spiritually dead until the Spirit of God calls them: that is, they are unresponsive to anything outside the realm of sin as sceen in Ephesians 2:1-3.

    Just as Lazarus was dead until Jesus called his name, so unbelievers are dead until the Spirit of God calls them. And just as Lazarus could not boast, "Jesus couldn't have done it without me!", neither can we. Dead men don't have much to bargain with. It is important to note that Ephesians 2:8-9 is in the context of God raising us from the dead spiritually.

    The process of election, as worked out in our own lives, does not violate our will. That is, the doctrine of "irresistible grace" does not mean "divine coercion," as if God bullies you into submission to do his will. Rather, it is compelling persuasion. The devil has blinded the eyes of the world (2 Cor. 4:4) and once our eyes have been enlightened by the Spirit of God, we see clearly what God has done for us. Further, if grace were resistible, this would mean that the person who can resist God's will is a strong and powerful individual and those who can't (and thus those who get saved) are weaklings. That is not the biblical picture.

    The means of election is always through human agency and always concerns the saved. There is no Biblical doctrine whatsoever of an Election of the LOST unto damnation.

    God uses other believers to communicate the gospel to the lost. ( Romans 10:14-17.) Therefore, we cannot excuse ourselves from sharing the gospel by saying, "If he's elect, God's going to save him anyway. He doesn't need me to do the job." It's true that God doesn't need any of us to do his will, but it is equally true that God uses those who are willing to obey him. Consequently, the doctrine of election should motivate us to share the gospel--not out of fear but because we want to be used by God to do his will.

    I hope this helps you in your understanding.
     
    xspinningisfun likes this.
  4. Well spoken Major, that's about the best commentary I've seen on this subject.
     
  5. I just cant see God being 'no respecter of persons' except by limiting His omniscience, Major. But from reading your post we definitely are in agreement on the final picture ;) .
     
  6. I think ALL Christians struggle with their Faith especially at the beginning...

    Please don't take this the wrong way; I am poising a hypothetical situation-not judging your faith: IF you are born again Christian, you're are going to be subject to attack. Since the beginning Satan has used 'doubt' as a tactic to distract the children of God away from the Word of God. Remember the Garden of Eden:

    Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (DOUBT) 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (DECEIT) 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Doubt can be a GOOD thing believe it or not, that means you are fighting the spiritual battle, but you need to groom your spirit of discernment knowing what is of God and what is not...Don't give Satan too much credit either-not every anti-god thing is Satan himself whispering in your ear. Usually our fellow humans do a sufficient enough task to distract us from God. Also, Satan is power hungry and angry-he resides near thrones of power and where ever God's work is being done.

    As far as sharing the Gospel, we are choosing to be children of God; therefore we are telling God 'yes, I will OBEY and follow you.' Most of us-including myself, have a problem with the obedience part. Which is also why so many people choose not to become Christians-because they do not wish to obey God's Word. There are multiple examples of this:

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    We-as Christians-are also commanded to share the Gospel:

    Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

    Mark16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    I do not agree with all the above statements from the others, but there is not any point arguing, that is why we as individuals must seek our own personal relationship with Christ, to work on our own heart condition. That being said-by no means am I trying to tell you that my interpretation is better than the others; always seek good counsel and fellowship, this will help build you up.

    In my opinion,I think you should spend time devouring the Gospels for a while-maybe start with John...
     
  7. Bless you my brother.
     
  8. KingJ....
    Acts 10:34........
    "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

    That means God does not play favorites. ANYONE from any nation can be saved, all on the same basis....FAITH in Christ! We all come to God the same way today.......by Faith in Christ which MAKES GOD NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS"!

    John 3:16.....
    "For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son that all who believe in Him shall have eternal life".

    Peter here is explaining that what was once impossible is now possible. Gentiles can be saved in the same way that Jews have been saved!!!
     
  9. First, we do not walk by sight nor feelings. We walk by trust (faith). If you have truly been born again you would know it. Second, you sound like you are young in the Lord. When I was young in the Lord I had those same thoughts and "feelings." It took several touches of the Lord through the years for me to finally realize and accept that I did in fact know Him, but more importantly, that He knew me. And if He knows you He will not leave nor forsake you.

    We are not all called to "spread the Word." However, as Peter said, always be ready to give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you with fear and trembling. We are not all apostles. At least, not where the Great Commission is concerned. And whether we are called to the ministry of the Word to others as commanded specifically of the Lord to any one or many of His servants so called to fulfill, we are to live our lives distinct from the world. And when the Lord brings someone into your life who asks of that distinction (hope), then we respond in kind with our testimony of the Lord in our lives. God does know who is going to heaven and He has written the names of those who will receive salvation in the book of life of the Lamb slain BEFORE the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13: 8 ).
    Just remember to spread His Word, not your own for it is by the Word of God that people are saved:

    1 Peter 1:23
    23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    If you are truly saved you will only get as "far" from the Lord as He desires for you in order to teach you something about Himself and yourself. And others. I used to doubt early on in my walk too. And after 35 years I look back and know that God has never left me nor forsaken me. At least for me, this lesson had to be learned in the process of TIME.


    There are those that are commanded specifically to evangelize just as the twelve disciples and later the eleven disciples were commanded to do (Matt. 10:1; Matt. 28:19-20). These men were commanded to evangelize. But we are not all apostles. We do not all have the same ministry (service) to the Lord. And for those who are not apostles, we share of the hope in us when others ask us about it. This is why it is important to not only know the Word (memorize), but to also understand it. We evangelize because we are commanded for one, and it is the Word of God that saves an individual, second (1 Pet. 1:23).
     
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  10. I agree with this Major. But the base argument remains. God either knows or does not know what choice we will make. If God knows the decision we will make (total omniscience) then we simply have not got true free will. If God does not know (inherent omniscience), we do. Since scripture says God is no respecter of persons and that He does what pleases Him we have the ability to deduce the third side in this sound trig eqaution, which is, God limits His omniscience in His dealings with us and the angels.

    When I think about Jesus on the cross I clearly grasp that He upholds scripture to the maximum, so when it says He is no respecter of persons I think in absolute terms. If He could limit His protection of His Son and allow Him to suffer, He can limit His omniscience for us to have free will.

    I just can't see where I am wrong :).
     
  11. @KingJ: He DOES know. How else would Jesus been able to say?: " 21Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."If God had not a clue as to who was going to enter heaven, IMO, there is no way he would have been able to state the above, which essentially makes claim to the fact that he has knowledge of those who will enter. Also, isn't the whole point of Revelations about the end times when he is "seated at the thrown?" How is he able to paint a clear picture of everything up until who is saved and who is not?

    Do you believe God is Omniscient? That is having complete and utter awareness and knowledge of everything. Then yes He knows! :)

    1 John 3:19-20: By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

    Revelation 20:11-15 "....15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

    Furthermore: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." God knows who we are before we are even created. How can he know all of this yet be unaware of our salvation? I don't see the logic in that. Can you point to any scriptures in particular that support your case? Btw, this is in no, way, shape, or form an argument. I am genuinely interested! If I am to follow God for the rest of my life, I want to follow the RIGHT teachings and not just take what this person or that person says depending on how they interpret the bible.


    I realize I am a born again and a "beginner" so please correct me if I misquote anything. :)
     
  12. @KingJ, when I refreshed my browser after I sent the above message, I just saw that you responded to this post~
     
  13. @KingJ: I actually see your point on free will which is why this topic has been so confusing to me myself. Hypothetically, if we have free will but the verses I stated above state that He knows, then which is right? Free will or not??
     
  14. The verses you quoted do not support your view.

    21Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven

    The underlined is to the 'whomsoever will do His will', He does not know. It can be anyone living. Note it says 'he' and not James, Matthew, Luke, John and Bob.

    22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."

    This is just referring to those who think they are saved and are not truly saved. It is not implying He knows who will prophecy and be fake. Note it says ''Many'' and not Matthew, Luke, John and Bob.

    Everyone is destined to be in Christ. God had hope for even Hitler to accept Jesus. Jesus died even for Hitler. He can paint the picture clearly because He knows that there will be those that reject Him. He saw it with Adam and Eve. He saw it with Cain nd Able. He saw it with the fallen angels. He knows that with free will there is a 50/50 chance of someone chooosing Him as our options are either accept or reject. He knows everything except for who will choose Him. He does know when we have rejected Him and have no more hope. He does know when we have accepted Him. But He does not know what our choice will be when we are still babies. He is NO respecter of persons. We simply cannot believe in true free will and His total omniscience at the same time!

    There is a distinction between:
    • inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
    • total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
    Some modern Christians theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill and dignity of his creatures.
     
  15. :) As did I, you lol.
     
  16. Thank you KingJ~Sadly this is just confusing me even more... :unsure: I gather you are stating that He knows some of who will make it but not others?
     
  17. I think ''hope'' is the keyword for you to grasp. God hopes we all get saved. God made us with hope that we will accept His invitation (given to us all!!) to be in-Christ.
     
  18. Well my dear brother, first of all it is not about anyone being right or wrong. We are all at different levels of understanding and this my friend is NOT a basic of salvation.

    Romans 14:5..........
    "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

    Now, do you really think that God DID NOT know that Adam and Eve would sin?

    If God DID NOT know that, then what do we do with Ephesuans 1:4 where God says clearly................

    ""According as He hath chosen us in HIM before the foundation of the world".

    That tells us that God planned our salvation way back yonder in eternity before you and I were a glem in our mothers eye.
    GOD KNEW what Adam and Eve would do. God chose believers in Christ before the foundation of the world, how ever far back that is. That means we did not do the choosing. God did not choose us because we were good or because we would do some good things.

    The entire choice is thrown back upon the sovreignty and the wisdom and goodness of God alone.

    John 15:16 confirms this................
    "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you".

    You see King..........IF God did not know these things, then that would make Jesus the SECOND choice of God and again we see that God according to the Scriptures did the choosing BEFORE tghe foundation of the world.

    Now, that has nothing whatsoever to do with your free will of choosing!!!!!!!

    It does not matter who you are or where you are......all have received an invitation from God. The Lord has extended His invitation to everyone. Whosoever may come.

    John 3:16........
    "For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son".

    1 John 2:1-2..........
    " My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

    Christ DID NOT DIE for the elect but for the whole world my dear brother! You are of the elect if you hear His voice and accept His invitation. You also have the free will NOT to hear His voice and you can reject His invitation. I do not propose to totally grasp all of that, I just believe it.

    Now.....Election is God's choosing us in Christ. I want to say this clearly, men are not lost because they have not been elected. MEN ARE LOST BECAUSE THEY ARE SINNERS, and that is the way they want it and that is the way they have chosen. THE FRE WILL OF MAN IS NEVER VIOLATED BECAUSE OF THE ELECTION OF GOD!!!!.

    The lost man makes his own choice. Augustine said it like this.......
    "If there be not free will grace in God, how then can He save the world? And if there be not free will in man, how can the world by God be judged?"

    Consider now Paul comment in Romans 9:14.........
    "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God" GOD FORBID!"

    This is as I said at the start............a very deep subject that requires a lot of indepth study and contextual comparison.
     
  19. Just been thinking. Sure it is a difficult pill to swallow to believe that God would limit His omniscience for us!...but WHY? It is not supposed to be new to our thinking! God has sacrificed so much for us! 'He will never leave nor forsake us', yet He forsook and left His Son on the cross! for us. Jesus was all powerful, yet He limited His authority to be a sheep to the slaughter for US. He will not hesitate to put us before Himself so to speak. The fact the we have true free will is an absolutely humbling concept! It is a pure gift from God with no strings attached.
     
  20. Agreed. I don't mean to sound all-knowing or be arrogant, apologies if I am coming across like that.
    Sure He did, but did God know that Eve would sin before Adam?

    God knew they would 'eventually' sin. The odds of them sinning was 50/50 until the devil was put there to speed up the fall. The other issue is, was Adam an adopted son in-Christ before he sinned? If mankind never fell, we would still just be a creation and not adopted Sons in Christ. Like the angels. The odds of many resisting the devil and not needing a saviour is virtually zero. Added to that the weakness of the flesh. We were all pretty much doomed for hell when Adam and Eve fell.

    I agree 100% with the rest of your post. But feel that you are not answering the issue directly o_O . No offence Major!

    God either knows our choice to accept or reject Him or He doesnt. If He does, we dont have free will. If He doesn't, we do. As you said, He reaches out to all of us. Why reach out to all of us if He knows some won't grab His hand? Why warn Sodom and Gomorrah if He knew they would reject His warning? He does not know who will grab His hand. He does not know who will head His warning. He reaches out in hope.
     

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