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If God be for us

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by woundedsoldierofCHRIST, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. If God be for us

    ERSE 31. What shall we say to these things? That is, what is the inference
    from what has hitherto been said?
    If God be for us, if he has delivered us
    from the law of sin and death, if he has renewed us by his spirit which
    dwells within us, it he recognizes us as his children and his heirs, and has
    predestinated us to holiness and glory,
    who can he against us? If God’s
    love has led to all the good just specified, what have we to fear for the
    future? He who spared not his own Son, will freely give us all things. This
    verse shows clearly what has been the apostle’s object from the beginning
    of the chapter. He wished to demonstrate that to those who accede to the

    plan of salvation which he taught,
    i.e. to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    there is no ground of apprehension; their final salvation is fully secured.
    The conclusion of the chapter is a recapitulation of all his former
    arguments, or rather the reduction of them to one, which comprehends
    them all in their fullest force; God
    IS FOR US. He, as our Judge, is satisfied;
    as our Father, he loves us; as the supreme and almighty Controller of
    events, who works all things after the counsel of his own will, he has
    determined to save us; and as that Being, whose love is as unchanging as it
    is infinite, he allows nothing to separate his children from himself.
    It has been objected, that if Paul had intended to teach these doctrines, he
    would have said that apostasy and sin cannot interfere with the salvation
    of believers. But what is salvation, but deliverance from the guilt and
    power of sin? It is, therefore, included in the very purpose and promise of
    salvation, that its objects shall be preserved from apostasy and deadly
    sins. This is the end and essence of salvation. And, therefore, to make Paul
    argue that God will save us if we do not apostatize, is to make him say,
    those shall be saved who are not lost. According to the apostle’s doctrine,
    holiness is so essential and prominent a part of salvation, that it is not so
    much a means to an end as the very end itself. It is that to which we are
    predestinated and called, and therefore if the promise of salvation does not
    include the promise of holiness, it includes nothing. Hence, to ask whether,
    if one of the called should apostasies and live in sin, he would still be
    saved, is to ask, whether he will be saved if he is not saved. Nor can these
    doctrines be perverted to licentiousness without a complete denial of their
    nature. For they not only represent sin and salvation as two things which
    ought not to be united, but as utterly irreconcilable and contradictory.
    ERSE 32. He that spared not his own Son, etc. That ground of confidence
    and security which includes all others, is the love of God; and that
    exhibition of divine love which surpasses and secures all others, is the gift
    HIS OWN SON. Paul having spoken of Christians as being God’s sons by
    adoption, was led to designate Christ as his own peculiar Son, in a sense in
    which neither angels (Hebrews 1:5) nor men can be so called. That this is
    the meaning of the phrase is evident,
    1. Because this is its proper force;
    own Son being opposed to adopted

    sons. An antithesis, expressed or implied, is always involved in the use​
    of the word
    i]diov, see Acts 2:6; Romans 11:24, 14:4; Titus 1:12. The
    Jews, we are told, took up stones to stone our Lord, because
    i]dion e]lege to<n Qeo>n
    , thus making himself equal with God. Christ is
    in such a sense the Son of God, that he is of one nature with him, the
    same in substance, equal in power and glory.
    2. Because the context requires it, as Paul had spoken of those who were
    sons in a different sense just before.
    3. Because this apostle, and the other sacred writers, designate Christ as
    Son of God in the highest sense, as partaker of the divine nature; see

    Romans 1:4.
  2. I've never understood the purpose of that verse, "If God be for us, who can be against us?" Well,our adversary, the devil, is definitely against us, and all unbelievers are against us.

    Now, had that verse said, "Who can STAND against us", I would have to say only those that God allows to stand against us. However, there's an untold number of people and fallen angels who are against God and anyone who believes in Him.

    However, we are told NOT to fear those who can kill our body, but to fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Matt. 10:28
  3. Hi JM If you don't mind I'll rephrase that verse It might help.

    "With God standing for me, Who can win any attack on me?"

    You're right there my friend, Nobody can hurt us in any way with God on our side. Actually we're on Gods side, grin, but since we have a covenant with God, He fights our battles for us. And NOBODY can stand when our God fights them.

    Personally I have never found that the unsaved are against us, but the unbelievers. Hmmm? you say. Unbelieving Christians will bring far more war to you than the unsaved will.
    Let me refer you to the bible to back me up. Jesus came teaching the fulfillment of the Old Covenant. Who fought against Him? The gentiles? No. It was His own people. Covenant people. Believers.

    In all my saved life, since I decided to go further in and farther up, the ones that attacked me were other Christians. Yet I only say what the bible says.
    Does what I say make sense? Or am I babbling?

  4. ARGUMENT 22​
    18. ​
    “If the righteous is scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the
    sinner appear?”
    The Greek dikaios literally means a justified man in
    contradistinction to the
    “sinner,” and the “ungodly,” who are under
    condemnation. The sinner is a person addicted to habits of overt
    wickedness, while the
    “ungodly,” sustaining a good moral character, are
    simply unsaved,
    i.e., without the knowledge and possession of God in the
    heart. Worldly churches are largely filled up with this class. It is frequently
    the case, as with moral outsiders, their greatest sins are self-righteousness.
    As a rule they seem to be harder to save than overt sinners, because they
    depend on their morality, churchanity and good works, all of which are
    utterly powerless to keep them out of hell, into which they plunge
    headlong with all of the outbreaking sinners. Not so with the justified man.
    He goes to heaven when he dies, though
    “scarcely,” i.e., he barely
    squeezes in. But see what a glorious achievement, though he barely gets in
    by the skin of his teeth. Having neglected sanctification during his life, he
    receives it in the article of death, going out of the world under the
    redeeming blood like an infant, and entering heaven in a state of spiritual
    infancy, having forfeited all of the glorious opportunities of spiritual
    growth, culture and development during probation (which at best are
    certainly very meager with the unsanctified). It is fearfully risky to live
    and die in the justified state, without sanctification, depending on its
    reception in the article of death, and then squeezing into heaven. I would
    not like to risk it, lest I be squeezed out instead of in. Peter gives us
    something infinitely better in his next letter,
    i.e., the abundant entrance for
    the man who has not only been justified, but sanctified and enriched with
    the bright constellation of spiritual graces described in the first chapter.

    19. ​
    God is in everything, good and bad, so far as His true people are
    concerned, making all things a blessing to them through perfect submission

    and good works.
    When John Fletcher was asked, “What is the most important Christian
    grace?” he answered, Humility.” To a second inquiry he said, “Humility.”
    To a third he answered, “Humility,” when the inquirer desisted.​
    5. ​
    “Likewise ye younger people submit to the elder, and all put on humility
    toward one another, because God resisteth the proud, but He giveth grace
    to the humble.”
    Oh, how beautiful and bright the sweet and amiable grace
    of humility shines in every walk of life. It is believed that the Archangel
    Lucifer fell from heaven when he permitted spiritual pride to creep in,
    while unfortunately he ventured to contemplate the splendor and glory of
    the gigantic intellect which God had given him. John Wesley pronounces
    pride the great mother sin, whose daughters curse the earth and fill hell. If
    you can keep your pride thoroughly crucified, you will never fall, because
    God’s grace will ever sustain you.

    6. ​
    “Therefore humble yourselves beneath the mighty hand of God in order
    that in His time He may lift you up.”
    The Bible reveals a topless heaven
    and a bottomless hell, consentaneous to the illimitable progress of all finite
    beings, whether on an upward or a downward tread. All the wicked are
    sinking every moment by the tremendous weight of their sins. At an
    unsuspected moment, hell fire rolls over them and they continue to sink
    forever, because hell has no bottom,
    i.e., they illimitably progress in sin
    and misery through all eternity. On the contrary, God’s truly faithful
    people progress in wisdom and holiness, not only through this life, but
    throughout never-ending eternity. We all desire the upward trend, but oh,
    how men and devils deceive us. God’s ways are the opposite of man’s
    ways. Man says, “Climb,” God says,
    “Humble yourselves.” In God’s
    vocabulary, to go up is to go down, and to go down is to go up. Pride lifts
    you up, to drop you the more precipitously into hell. Humility humbles
    you down in the dust, where God’s angels ever linger, to encircle you in
    their pinions of light and favor you with a balloon ride to heaven.

    7. ​
    “Casting your care upon Him, because there is a care to Him for you.”

    This is the Christian secret of a happy life. God wants us to be free as​
    angels, disencumbered of every care, swift as birds of paradise to go on His
    missions of love and mercy. He wants to carry us and all of our burdens,
    so we may be perfectly free to do His sweet will on earth, as the angels do​
    it in heaven.
  6. ARGUMENT 25​
    8. ​
    “Be sober, watch.” As nothing but sin can intoxicate the human soul,
    nothing but entire sanctification can make it perfectly
    “sober,” and so
    keep it. Hence,
    “be sober” simply means be wholly sanctified. These two
    “watch and be sober,” walk hand in hand through the
    New Testament. Watch has a double meaning, as our Savior has a double
    nature. We are to keep our eyes on the spiritual Savior every moment we
    can, while He keeps His hand on us, fortifying us against all danger. At the
    same time, we are to be on the constant outlook for the glorified Jesus to
    ride down on a cloud, for whose presence perfect spiritual sobriety,
    entire sanctification, is the qualification.
    “The devil, your adversary, is
    walking around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour.”
    the devil goes about roaring like a lion, ready to eat you up in a moment,
    beware that you do not watch him lest you take your eye off of Jesus. If
    you keep your eye on Jesus and abide in perfect sobriety, He will attend
    to this roaring devil and you too. So the devil’s roaring can never hurt you.
    On the contrary, it will stir you up to the battle and inspire you to fight
    the more Courageously, thus even utilizing the devil as a drummer to make
    music for you while you fight him.

    9. ​
    “Whom resist steadfastly in faith.” Now Jesus is a million times stronger
    than the devil. He says, “It shall be unto you according to your faith.”
    Therefore you have nothing to do but steadfastly resist the devil, having
    faith in Jesus to whip him for you, and He will do it every time.

    10. ​
    “The God of all grace having called you unto His eternal glory in
    Christ, will Himself make you perfect, having suffered a little while, will
    establish, strengthen, settle you.”
    The “little while” you are to suffer in
    order to be made perfect, is just long enough for old Adam to be crucified.

    The omnipotent Adam the Second will slay Adam the First in a moment
    pursuant to your faith. John Wesley said that only one out of three in his
    day having received the grace of perfection retained it. We see here the
    establishment, invigoration and settlement in holiness in God’s order,
    should follow the grace of perfection, as the only available preventive of
    collapse. The Holiness movement is very delinquent in that invaluable
    precaution against apostasy. I dictate these pages in California. A leading
    officer of the Salvation Army declared that thirty thousand persons have
    professed conversion through the work of the Army in this State, whereas
    it is impossible to find more than three thousand. The work of
    establishment is underestimated to the serious detriment of God’s cause.​
    11. ​
    “Unto Him is the dominion, unto ages of ages. Amen.” The Greek here
    eis tous aioonas toon aioonoon which defines the duration of the divine
    government, and also the existence of God, the life of the saints in glory
    and the perpetuity of heaven. Now remember that the Holy Ghost
    throughout the New Testament repeatedly uses the same phrase to reveal
    the duration of hell torment and the future existence of lost souls, suffering
    the retribution of eternal punishment. These positive revelations of God in
    the Bible forever sweep away the foolish dogmata of Universalism,
    Annihilationism, and Restorationism. You have to either throw away the
    Bible or accept the doctrine of endless punishment for the wicked.

    12. ​
    Silvanus was the honored amanuensis of the venerable apostle, writing
    this letter pursuant to his dictation.
    “Exhorting and testifying that this
    same grace of God is true, in which you may stand.”
    The English
    indicative in this clause is wrong. The true reading is
    may stand, involving
    the liability to fall.

    13. ​
    Doubtless the elect sister here in Babylon,. i.e., Rome, sending her
    salutations was the kind sister who entertained the apostle. We see Mark
    was also with him, who is believed generally to have been his amanuensis,
    Peter dictating the gospel which bears his name.

    14. ​
    “Salute with a kiss of divine love.” The kissing salutation will always
    be right, blessed of God, and a means of grace if prompted by divine love,
    as the Scriptures say: But beware of the carnal kiss. In it there is a snare.

    “Peace be unto all you who are in Christ.” ​
    This is Peter’s benediction at
    the close of this wonderful letter. It is very beautiful, and so brief as to suit

    our convenience on many occasions. We find benedictions at the close of
    all the apostolic letters, furnishing us a vast variety, suitable to all
    occasions. We should never use any one unto monotony, as has been done​
    for ages in case of Paul’s benediction at the close of Second Corinthians
  7. Peter experienced the accuser of the brethren first hand he denied the LOrd 3 times but Jesus restored him completely when you are restored strengthen thy brethren we must stand firm against the onsaughts of the accuser in Jesus mighty name Jesus is LOrd God bless
  8. Well, lets set things strait first-

    1- the unbelieving christians and unsaved people are one in the same.

    These unbelieving people can call themselves "Christian", but they are decieved by Satan into believing works, not Grace saves them.

    2- Sanhedrin- This was the body of Jewish religious Leaders, that when were first put in authority, had both governing and religious authority.

    They became besotted with thier positions in Leadership and started thinking and operating legalistically. Never teaching the moral aspect of God's Word.

    Thus, that religious Body of authority, taught God's Word distorted. Some Jews thought Christ would come as a great war leader. Others did not understand the signs of the times, so did not believe in Him at all. While still others, did know and understand God's Word right, understood the signs and believed in and followed Him when appeared.

    Jesus called them many times- vipers, blind leading the blind and alot more.

    So, it comes down to teachings people are given, or the way God's Word is interpreted. Example-

    Jesus was taken before the Sanhedrin and the Lead Minister asked Him who He was. Jesus said- "thou knowest". That head Leader jumped up and ripped his-(rent) his clothes, yelling out- "God is one".

    When its declared- the rightceous are scarely saved, I suggest it relates to our works being investigated and any treasures we, "as a Body" will recieve or lose.

    Its well known just over 30% of the "Body of Christ" is all thats active in some way, for spreading the gospel. In Corinthians, God speaks of how our works shall be tried, and if burn, we still enter Heaven without anything gained, as if tried by fire.

    Truth is tho, us mortal people could never stand or overcome spiritual powers without God doing it for us.

    Remember, God is Father and Creator of all things. Therefore, if He is for us, nothing nor anyone can stand against us. They can try, but if we have done our part as God calls us to, none can truely stand against us.

    The only time we fail- (not go thru trials), but fail trials, is because we were not properly prepared. We all have weaknesses and Satan, as well as God knows this. So, we have to do our part, for God to do His part, in helping us be overcomers.

    Simplest understanding is John the Baptist's statement- "He- (Jesus ) must increase, I must decrease." Paul revels himself, not in his works or God's accomplishments thru him, but in his falable points, that allow God and christ to be seen more thru him.

    God Bless!!
  9. Perhaps our use of the word "believers" is different. To me "believers" are those who are born again. Unbelievers are those who are lost in their sins. Yes, there are many who CLAIM to be believers, but then anyone can CLAIM anything; that doesn't make it true.

    There is a big difference between "religious" people (like the Pharisees) who believe there is a God but think they're good enough in themselves to be accepted by God. Such people are NOT Christians in my opinion. They (like the Pharisees) boast on their own goodness, while looking down on others.
  10. Jon-Marc-

    While you may believe that about the Pharocees, but remember, Christ declared tho those Leaders thought they were the best, they would still be the least in Heaven. Jesus also declared unless our righteousness exceded that of the Pharocees, we'd not enter Heaven. And theres plenty more.

    But, Jesus never declared those Leaders would never enter Heaven, only that those who are first shall be last, and those last shall be first. (Speaking of meekness, gentleness, temperance, etc, as demonstrating how much the Holy Spirit was able to fill each of God's Children for what witness is seen) while on earth.

    I've met plenty of saved and reborn Christians who were prideful of thier demonstrations of Christ-like manner they show. Or those who are boastful of it and more, plus alot of other aspects.

    This does not mean they are not Christians, only decieved by particular aspects is all. People get prideful all the time, like whenever they get offended. Something someone says or does offends them.

    Problem is, we focus on the person who said or did the offense, instead of looking at Satan, who influenced them to do or say it. So, we get offended, because we think we are better than they project however.

    I never get offended by anything anyone says or does against me, because I know it will be something they will have to face God, not me with. And it was Satan who influenced them to do or say whatever, to try and hurt God, by breaking my witness down in retaliation. But, what can I say or do to edify myself, because I'm equally born in sin and can't point any fingers at anyone else.

    Instead, what I should always be concerned with, is looking at myself first, trying to correct what God has shown me is imperfect in myself.

    Ever since God first called me as a Minister years ago, I've always taught people to look at themselves first, and speak against Satan, not other people.

    Some claimed Jesus did, so to be "Christ-like" we can judge other people. Wrong!! Jesus was God in the flesh. He knew the motivations of people, we don't. Besides, we need to remember, to judge the root of the tree... by the fruit it bears. (Judge the root).

    So, we could claim the Pharocees, Saducees, Nicolateans, Scribes and others were not Christians, but then we've decieved ourselves, going against what Christ clearly taught us.

    Alot of groups within the "Body of Christ" hold Ministers on a pedestal above others. But we should not. God declares its Him, not us, who holds greater responcibility over His chosen Leaders.

    So then, when a Minister shows a falable point and falls to temptation or thru a trial, now, we want to crucify him, remove him, not believe him (or her too)- forgive me for that.

    But you know, in the circle of Ministers I know and belong to, many have stated how weary they are, working more to try and keep people focused on where the battle really is, us against Satan, not each other. So that they spend so much time with that, they seldom have time to really share Teachings in general of God, to help thier flocks grow in relationship with God.

    The testimony of one Minister I have, about 15 years ago, saw him ready to quit ministry, his Church, even his marriage and more. And just disappear. He cried out to God and lost hope, because all he did was keep people from fighting amongst each other, ran out of things to try and teach and more.

    Go to the World Revival Church and order thier CD about the "Smithton OutPouring." Thats the Church now- WRC. Incredible testimony.

    But, God gave him a sabatical and sent him to a revival. By two weeks there, God had shown him just enough to have some hope. God told him to go home and God would bring revival to his Church.

    Enough said.

    God Bless!!
  11. Im not following whta does this have to do with the post

    Christian commando i cant realy say that im following what you are trying to say i love my brothers nd sisters in Christ and always will im not here to offend anyone please understand this want to hear something realy hard to comprehend i shared some scriptures no idease just the word of God i was told if i believed that i was going to go to hell the scriptures i shared werei John 3 and 1 Peter 1 can you make sense of any of this my question what is it actually that christians are to believe the bible is Gods word my point it speaks for itself i shared romans 6:7 with a minister he looked at me and said i was decieved i shared 1 Timothy 1 i wa told the same thing how does God speak to His people and what is the fruit of a true believer im pretty open God sees my heart i know i desperatley need His grace His love His power Paul said the kingdom of God is not in word but in power i pary that God has mercy on me and changes my heart because i know that without Him i can do nothing but throufgh Christ Jesus i can do all things we need to be carefull to heed Gods counsel not just what we like tohear but every word that proceeds from His mouth Jesus truly is LOrd i love Him with all my heart ill only serve and follow Him im sorry if some of you haver missunderstood me btu my friend there are always 2 sides to every story even here ive felt at times that some staements that have been made are anything but christian thsi is not having a go at any one in particular we dont fight against flesh and blood as believers web are commanded to love one another and pray for one another i always pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ i love you guys my hearts desire is that God raises up all His people and uses them mightly my only boast is and evr will be in His great love wich He demonstrated by sending His precious bel;oved Son to seek and save sinners of whom im chief to Him alone be the glory for he ALONE IS WORTHY
  12. My dear brother i should read what is said before i make comment please forgive me Christian Commando you are a mighty man of God God bless you brother and all His precious people Jesus truly is Lord
  13. C. C. ..... that says it all . Thankyou for the balanced post my brother.:goodpost:

    The paragraophs underlined are so important . I have also be growing in that area to not let what people say about me or to me ,
    affect my testimony.

    Yes , me and only me will stand in front of the Judge at the end of time . I must be accountable for what I say and do .... not others . I need to take the plank out of my eyes so I can see the speck in
    other 's eye.

    That is where the church is lacking in these days .... accountablility to our Saviour .

    We are "God's Children" and we need to act like them .
  14. Well, I should clarify something tho too. Thank you for noting what I'd stated-

    You see, I used to fight at the drop of a hat as a kid. It took years for God to bring me to accept in my heart these points shared. But, to be honest- I may have so much patience I can handle most any situation, still... if a trial of constant pressure goes a very long time, I do eventually wear thin and will let it get to me to a point.

    I do have and know my limitations. Which is why, I do so much praying and and speaking to God to guide me, speak thru me, strengthen me. But, most generally, I do like challenges that pressure me in weak points, as I focus more intently on God,- "ok, you see whats going on, I may end up needing help God."

    I've learned to start early with seeking God, that my attitude and perception of things is always trained right. I've learned not to wait till I'm about to lose it. Its hard to get used to that. But I've noticed when I do, I go so much longer than normal with handling things, because I seek God shortly after something starts.

    I think of it as- preparing for the worst, ahead of time, should it come.

    Thanks Dusty for pointing that out. God corrected thru you by reminding me how I worded that and left parts out.

    So, let me restate what I'd said- Its not that I "never", let Satan get to me, but that it takes so much more for Satan now, he seldom does because God helps me stay clear thinking.

    Forgive me for wording that wrong. I am sorry about that.

    God Bless!!
  15. WoundedsoldierofChrist-

    Why are you sorry? You never offended me. Don't worry about it. Its just the way I am, a bit strict and tough is all, from the years of defending God's Word in so many confrontations with Satan's embassaders to try and decieve people.

    In Truth Bro in Christ, it is I who ask forgiveness for projecting such "fruit" to convince any others I was upset or offended. You learn to become tough, strict and very committed when you get thrown face to face against witches, warlocks, possessed people and more.

    As paul declared, so can all of us, that we have our stripes to show Jesus too, from the confrontations with Satan in whatever way or form.

    Thats why God taught thru me for years this Bible Study- "Its time to put the armor of God on".

    The longer I'm here, the more you'll learn about me. I will die, before I let Satan win against me. And God has already shown me it won't be from disease in my body, or physical afflictions in it, etc.

    God Bless!!
  16. Thanks Christiasn Commando i know what you mean about spirituasl warfare im learning and unfortunatley i had to learn the hard way the schoolm of hard knocks but God is ever Faithfull and i love Him Jesus is the Son of God i love Him and the woprd of God is so precious tom me always we have to fight the fight of faith im realizing somethingh of greart importance to not go beyondf what is written and the safest way to study and learn Gods word is let the scriptures show us and ask God to reveal what He wantas us tos ee we are all at different stages of growing in grace im very selective with even christian litrature i read i mean books and teachings by others the word of God is the believers foundation and building source alone

  17. So true " wounded"

    Sometimes the school of hard knocks gives us a wake up call. God allows all these things for a reason . He would not allow more that what we can bear. And some day down the line we will understand why .

    But for the moment we need to trust and obey as the little song says .... Trust and obey for there's no other way ... to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey.

    Yes ... we all have sordid pasts but praise God , He takes those pasts and makes them beauty for ashes. He alone is our source and strength .

    We just need to lean more on Him day by day and let Him look after us .

    That is what I am claiming as well . A Closer walk with Him. Praise God from whom all blessings flow.

    Claim it my brother , walk in the Light as He is the Light of the world.
  18. Amen sister God is truly awesome and He is revealing so much to me from His word for wich im eternally gratefull thanks be unto God that through His grace i dont have a past because He will never remeber it but i have a glorious futur wich He promised to all who believe now that truly is great news Jesus is LOrd.
  19. " Wounded " .... that's right . Bless you :)

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