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If God be for us, who can be against us?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by JohnC, May 7, 2015.

  1. This is one of the most dangerous phrases in the ENTIRE bible... One that is so commonly misunderstood and misapplied....

    Let's look at Joshua 5:13
    "..... and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said to him "Are you for us or are you against us?"

    Every single one of us that reads this passage EXPECTS to hear "I am for you"

    BUT - what is The Lord's reply? Joshua 5:14

    See, the danger in stating "If God be for us, who can be against us" is that it presumes WE take a position and then God validates that position.... Thus - WE decide what we want to do and then God says "Ok, I am with you"....

    RATHER the correct position is:
    If WE be for God..... The position WE DESIRE is to align OUR will with God - not the other way around.... That was Joshua's answer in 5:14 - "What does my Lord say to His servant" - Joshua is ALIGNING HIS WILL with God's.... The destruction of Jericho was God's will - not Israel's will....

    When you look at what God had said to Israel - He said: "I am driving out these nations ahead of you.... Are you with ME or not?" When Israel said "No" - they got to spend 40 years in the wilderness thinking it over..... That's what happens when we want God's Love - but aren't really too keen on His Will.....

    See - the danger is thinking: The Lord is with us... Therefore, WE are ENTITLED... God OWES us... WE are right.. and that simply doesn't follow.....

    The Lord LOVES us - and BECAUSE HE LOVES US - he INVITES us to participate in HIS plan.... Sometimes, that plan means being taken into captivity.... Sometimes that plan means facing persecution... Sometimes, that plan means standing against the tide... It means that the world will hate us and lord it over us....

    It ALSO means, though, that just because "The Mighty Hand of God" seems to be against us and we are "Losing" the battle for the culture and society - this doesn't mean God does not love us.. We don't GET it sometimes - for example, Jeremiah 12:16 - One of the reasons we are taken into captivity is so THEY can learn OUR ways.... So THEY can see OUR light..... Not for us to say "Well, the hand of The Lord seems to be against us - so we gotta give in and go along with their ways".....

    Mykuhl likes this.
  2. I agree with most of what you say here but I believe we need to take a look at the whole picture here.

    The title of your post comes from Roman 8:31. Now, if we look at this one verse in it's proper context(the whole chapter)then we will get an understanding of what it means and not misuse it. This verse is referring only to those that walk according to the Spirit, not according to the flesh. This point is made several times throughout the chapter so that we don't miss it. This verse is meant as an encouragement to the saints that do walk according to the Spirit.
    Arrie03, Fish Catcher Jim, Cturtle and 1 other person say Amen and like this.

  3. Thank You Mykuhl,

    God be for us then who can be against us is just what it says. This is a powerful statement of faith for us who are born again of His spirit. No matter what is coming against us if we remember this then we will remember He has this for us and we need to simply take Him for His word and stand in Faith.

    Persecution comes for the words sake not ours. See Mark Chapter 4 the parable of the sower.
    If it is not coming in your life then you better examine your life and find out why the devil is not bothering you for you are no threat to him even with the word of God.

    The world will hate us because we stand for good or Light which is God. The darkness hates the light.

    Some times God will send you into a place such as a job or church or town that is in poverty or some kind of mess and God did not send you there to be like them but to take His blessing to them and change the place.

    Spiritual captivity comes when we are not walking in His word or by His word. For example we have not learned our authority in Christ or renewed our selves in His word enough to make Faith or the Spirit man stronger then the flesh. Bondages and spiritual blindness are a part of spiritual captivity. WE do have the power in Christ and the authority to bind that strong man and cast him out. Especially in praying for others.

    People need to start actually LIVING THE LIFE GOD CREATED US TO LIVE and stop trying to prove everything that is wrong. Thee Blessing of the Lord will do all of that on it's own but you got to get to the place where it can dwell in your life 24/7/365.

    Thee Just Shall Live By Faith.......this is 24/7/365 unshakable Faith that does NOT waver back and forth and is the same constantly and consistently 24/7/365. This is how we are to live and we can not do this without building our selves up in His written word WHICH MEANS all of His word and not just what we feel like or want.

    Example.......FORGIVENESS AND LOVE are COMMANDMENTS of God to be lived by every single moment of our lives. It affects our prayer life and results and limits what God can do in a situation. We are told to forgive any we have aught against when we pray. This means right now and right then. It is not something little or not important. It is a command and it pleases God and it brings a reward or answers.

    I could go on and on and fill this place with scriptures for that is precious to me. His Word that is. Any way God Bless every one and have a great day
  4. Mykuhl's point is correct, it was the first thing in my thoughts also.
    That said, I know exactly what you mean for it is slackly used.
    A favourite verse I often quote for myself is "no weapon forged against me shall prosper" closely followed by "for I am a son of the most high God".
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  5. Yes - absolutely, Paul meant it as a comfort and encouragement.. It echos Joshua and Caleb in Numbers 14:6-9

    The danger of it, though is assuming that because God is "For" someone - that the gospel they preach is right.... God has shown that in certain situations - he will allow His Might, Power, miracles, and signs to be used by some very ungodly people...

    As such - since God is FOR them, no one can stand against them... Not even US.... .During these periods - they are literally untouchable by anything that either the world, or ourselves can throw at them.... (A good modern example is Hitler - and how he was basically untouchable for a LONG time, despite the best efforts of the rest of the world - including Evangelical Christians...)

    For example - The Lord DECLARED that He was with Babylon and Persia and against the nation of Judea- even calling Cyrus "My Servant".... but it would be a mistake to infer from this that God wanted Israel to follow the religious systems of either Babylon or Persia.... or that The Jews should follow the belief systems of Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus...

    This was the error of Job's friends - and it's the error of all those who follow The Beast in Revelation.... Assuming that because God's Might and Power were present - that this authorized the message....


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