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I am not a Christian.

Discussion in 'Answers' started by Silfen, Jan 4, 2009.

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  1. I am not a Christian.

    I am an atheist. In more explicit terms, I am an agnostic or "weak" atheist. This means that I do not profess belief in God's nonexistence. Rather, I have not seen sufficient evidence to convince me of God's existence (or lack thereof), and so I choose to withhold belief.

    If that statement seems convoluted, allow me to explain (as Jesus often did) through analogy. A strange man walks up to me. He has an unusually shaped bulge in his left pocket. I can see bits of triangles and prisms and hemispheres, but it's all too amorphous for me to know what it is. The man tries to cut a deal with me. He says "if you can guess what's in my pocket, I'll give you $1,000. If you fail to guess what's in my pocket, I'll stab you." I have no information about the contents of his pocket. I decide that the most rational course of action is to refuse to make a claim. I do not say what is in his pocket. Instead, I live my life without worrying about the contents of this man's pocket.

    To bring that analogy back to the topic that we're really talking about, I find that it is most rational to avoid making a claim concerning the existence of something about which I have little information. I have not encountered any (good) evidence for God's existence. From an empirical standpoint, I have not seen him, heard him, or in any other way observed something that I would call "God." I have sincerely tried to pray on numerous occasions, but I have found that there is no result. From a rational standpoint, I have not encountered any reasoning that would force the conclusion that God exists. No argument that I have heard, including things like Anselm's ontological argument, or argument from design, or anything else holds water when carefully examined.

    I have heard anecdotal evidence, but such evidence is insufficient to prove a claim of this magnitude.

    So... here are my questions. For what reason(s) do you believe in God's existence and Jesus' divinity? Do you know of anything that might convince me? To convince me it would have to be empirical evidence that is verifiable in some way, or a logical argument that is valid and sound.
  2. I would not try to argue with you or anyone else over this. God is a reality in my life plain and simple. If I discounted the miracles I have seen and the times He has moved the mountains of circumstance in my life then I would be left with a simple testimony of the manifest presence of my God in my life.
    Yes He talks to me, yes He guides me, yes He answers my prayers. But there is something almost indescribable about the way everything changes when He chooses to manifest His glory in my life. Is it the way the very atmosphere around me changes? Is it the (as the ancients called it) the kabod or weighty presence of God- one can barely stand under such a manifestation of His glory. Is it the countless times when the storms of life beat on me and I heard His gentle voice simply whisper to me "do not be afraid, I am with you"? Is it the peace of God that falls on me when all around me are in fear or distress?
    Is it the wonderful way I can read a verse of scripture and the Holy Spirit of God breathes on it and gives me just what I need (answer, encouragement, etc) in my current situation? Or is it the way later on He speaks a different Word to me to meet me in another situation out of the very same verse?
    Perhaps it is knowing that when I stumble He is ever patiently waiting to pick me up and put me back on my feet.
    Is it His joy that I feel even when nothing is going right or the deep down knowledge that no matter what happens in my life He will work something good and beautiful out of it? Is it the way He so fills me with His presence and glory that I feel I literally cannot contain the goodness He pours into me? Or the way He moves through me to touch others when I have neither the skill nor the ability? I can't say for sure my friend but I suspect it is all those things and much, much more.
    Yes it could be those simple things. Waking up to His presence, walking with His Spirit, knowing His great love- these things are the greatest joy of my life.
    To borrow a piece of an anology form an old college Professor you can see an apple, you can describe an apple and you can make a lot of assumptions about an apple but you will never know what it tastes like- you will never understand the experience of enjoying that apple until you taste it for yourself.
    I personally recommend tasting that apple my friend.
    Many blessings,
    brother Larry.
  3. Any Christian who tries to convince another person about the existence of God is wasting his/her time. The Bible says we can't and goes even further to warn us not to.

    Besides, our proof will mean nothing to you.

    Even if God Himself came to you in a vision, a dream or an angel and whatever you were told or shown turned out to be true and amazing,....

    it would not guarantee a change of heart on your part.

    Perhaps you would believe for awhile, but as time passes you could easily convince yourself it was coincidence or your imagination.

    This is between you and God.

    What we can do is pray for you. And ask that you not judge us by our faults. Being Christian is not being perfect. We are still flawed human beings. The difference is we will be not be judged for our sins - Jesus has already paid the price.

    Instead we will be judge for all the great and wonderful things God has done thru us - sometimes when we were totally unaware.

  4. @Boanerges: God talks to you? What does he say? Can you talk to him and write down what he says and show it to me?
    I think you can't, and your feelings that 'god answers your prayers' are IMAGINARY.
    About that apple: What if the apple is poisoned? I'd prefer to know that before eating it. And yes, you CAN know how it tastes without tasting it. If it, e.g. contains hydronium, you know it will be sour, if it's not covered by the sweet taste of sugar...

    However, your signature shows me that you probably don't listen to me and won't even approve my post, because you fear that I could convince you that god could not exist...

    @Silfen: I recommend to read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and "The Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin. I already posted a thread about why god can't exist, but it first has to be approved by a moderator.
  5. "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other." Isaiah 45:22

    Flesh and blood did not reveal it to me but the Word of God. I was a God-defying rebel, and despised the Almighty. Until the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, and I feared the Lord for the first time, and begged Cjrist Jesus for mercy, did i know His love and capacity to forgive a bloodied wretch like me.

    What does Jesus save us from? | Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

    You might like to read a snapshot of that. But I challenge you to do this; muster up all sincerety you can, solemnly entreat Christ for mercies to reveal His Word to your heart. Jesus is God, the Son of God, God who walked among us, and laid His life down to save His sheep. Open a Bible and read. I scoffed at Christians all of my life- hated them. Refused the Word of God. The Word of God is Spiritually appraised. See for yourself what God says.

    For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

    Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?

    John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.

    May God richly bless you, and the love and peace of Christ be with your spirit today, may the Lord lead you into the knowledge of Him today, in Jesus' Mighty Name I pray.
  6. Thank you for proving me right! :)

    If you really could tell what something tasted like, simply by knowing what ingredients were in it, scientists would not have to taste their orange drinks to know whether or not they taste like orange juice.

    That is a fact!!!!! They taste the concoctions they make and adjust the formula several times re-tasting to discover whether or not they have created an orange drink that tastes like real orange juice.

    Your Questions were:
    do you believe in God's existence and Jesus' divinity?
    Do you know of anything that might convince me?

    Atheists and agnostics are willing to believe in things like the big bang which is scientifically impossible, so my question to you is:

    What makes your unproven beliefs any more valid than ours?
  7. Amen to that. What amazes me is the fact about those who believe in the big bang theory, can never tell you "Who Lit The Fuse" to ignite the substance (within some container), what ever it was, that went bang, and who created the explosive contained in the "whatever went bang",to blow it up.

    Neither can they explain "Why" if we evolved from Apes, are Apes still having Apes?

    God and his power cannot be explained. God will make it all very clear one day ,to every human being that has ever been born, the reality of it all, then he will explain all the What,When,Where, and Why of it all.

    I would still rather live all my life believing there is a God, and then find out there wasn't, because I'm ok either way,whether there is or there isn't.

    Not so with living all my life believing there isn't a God, then finding out there really was, because I will not be ok then.

    That's a chance I'm not willing to risk. In the words of Jesus. Blessed are they who believe, even though they don't see. I'll go with that one anyday.
  8. As others have said, I will not try to convince you. You've made up your mind that you won't believe, so nothing I can say can persuade you. You asked for some proof, so if you will look at some of the videos by Ken Hamm, you'll find all the proof you need. He gives detailed scientific evidence that proves without a doubt that the earth and everything around it was created by an Intelligent Designer. That goes right along with what my Bible says. If you really want proof, watch a few of his videos, then decide. You can find some on YouTube.
  9. if you read what Jesus says,he is head and shoulders above human logic.and far from towing the pharisees line,he told them the truth,which some could not deal with.:smiley10:
  10. Well, I must admit that You are totally right at this point. Last Friday, going to the church I saw a cross made of clouds on the sky lit by a moonlight... but that doesn't change my situation and my opinion of God at all!
  11. So 'unregistered', if you are so sure there is no God and Darwin was right- why do you visit a Christian site? I think inside you are desperately running around looking for something that's right in front of you...
  12. Oh and one more thing - there is no middle ground on who you serve. If you don't serve God you serve Satan. Sorry if it sounds harsh but that's the bottom line
  13. 1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

    The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface.

    If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury.

    If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.

    Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

    The Earth is located the right distance from the sun.

    Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees.

    If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze.

    Any closer and we would burn up.

    Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible.

    The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph.

    It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

    And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull.

    The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.

    Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it.

    Just like the Trinity~

    It cannot be seen,and 'water' can be a good example of the Trinity (God the Father, God the Son,and Holy Spirit?

    As water can be in liquid, steam or ice, they are still all water,but in different forms.

    That's how the Trinity works being 'One' ; yet works in different ways....

    You can't see the Trinity,but you can see the Trinity working for a believer...

    Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water).

    You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

    It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point.

    Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

    Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.

    Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

    Water has a unique surface tension.

    Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

    Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

    Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans.

    But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe.

    Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people.

    It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

    The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information.

    Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard.

    Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories.

    At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

    The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.

    Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant.

    This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. This intelligence can only be place by God to each individual.

    The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.

    Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms.

    Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

    Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program?

    As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000.

    The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do.

    The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C.

    These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billions of these letters in every human cell!!

    Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

    Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell?

    These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

    Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

    Scripture says:
    Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

    For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:19-20

    No, seeing creation, no one is without excuse knowing there is a creator...

    Too perfect,and didn't happen by chance.

    I encourage you to ask the Lord to show Himself to you by His creations.

    To read the whole New Testament...

    Ask the Lord to save you,and He will....
  14. I forgot Stefin to add....

    But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    So Stefin, the only way to understand the Spirit of God, is to accept Him.

    Jesus Christ is the only God that has risen,and was seen by over 500 people.

    Prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled or being fulfilled.

    One can only explain these fulfilled prophecies that God does exist...
  15. Really, I myself cannot convince you of the existence of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Because it is based upon Faith.

    Faith of things unseen, however I myself have felt HIS love and have been saved by HIS grace..

    BUT.. I have to say, If you cannot believe in the LORD, how can you believe in any other Love? Noone can see the love you give them.. So how can they trust that you really do? How can you trust anyone truly loves you? you can't see it, can't touch it, can't hear it or smell it..

    It is that same faith that let's you know you are loved and can love and other's know you love them, As my FATHER in hevean loves me..
  16. faith your reply is completely invalid.

    The chances of the Earth being the size it is and it being the size of Jupiter or Mercury or completely equal. As is the distance from the Sun.
    For example if you roll six dice the chance of the result being 1,6,5,2,2,4 or exactly the same as the result being 6,6,6,6,6,6. While the result is spectacular it is not battling any odds.

    Also they have found another planet (maybe 2 - not sure) that has the correct conditions for water and also to support life.

    As for the structure and capabilities of certain scientifical aspects of life. Things were not always like this. There is scientific proof that the Earth was chaotic at the beginning. There was barely any structure. Look at the many ice ages, some of which came about because things did not work well. The world became the way it is on the surface because of the many changes it endured, it adapted, it evolved. The human brain and eye are amazing. I will give you that. But if God created them, us, then why would there be so many imperfections in the formula. Isn't God perfect himself? Why would he create something with the potential to become imperfect?

    Now before everyone starts insulting me. I am an atheist but I am not anti-Christian. My girlfriend is a strong believer and I came to this forum to post a few questions (which are probably being reviewd by a moderator about now)
  17. as a person who is not perfect at all, i might say that i'm not the "greatest Christian," h/e I know that God exist, I had to decide to rely on faith myself tho, all the proof in the world can exist right in front o ur eyes and some people will still not want to see it. I'll pray 4 you and i don't mean in a condescending way, I pray 4 all people
  18. also one more thing it is written that only a mustard seed is needed, the fact that you're questioning, shows you atleast do
    Have reason to question…
  19. I only skimmed previous responses, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned...

    A great book to read for someone with your feelings is "I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Athiest," by Norman L. Geisler.

    It breaks things down in a scientific context, which I think for analytical individuals, can be a wonderful way of understanding faith. :)
  20. Existance of God

    The Bible Says in Psalms 19, that "The Heavens Declare the Glory of God..". You do not have to ask anybody, whether God exists or not. You Just watch the Creation. It Declares the Glory and the Very existence of God. it is Like you do not see the AIR that you breathe in. How do u know that there is air around you ?. There is no point in argument .

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