Discussion in 'New Members Welcome' started by mattjanes, Jun 6, 2014.

  1. sadly my Christian faith has been mortally wounded. I do not want to live, and pray for death, but I highly doubt I would ever kill myself.

    I told my God that he would lose me if he didn't give clear instructions and end this confusion.

    Still believe in God. And think the Bible contains the greatest wisdom. I believe there was no one more influential in our history and then Jesus Christ. However, I can never follow what goes against my conscience. To have somebody tortured eternally in hell goes against my conscience of what is good and what is just.

    This life on earth is like a second compared to eternity. Nobody deserves to be in agony and forever and ever and ever because of what they have done with one second while blind and inclined to do what's wrong. There is much in the Bible especially the Old Testament that'sGod has done or commanded and get people to do that goes against my conscience of what is just and good.

    I know that I am inadequate without God but will never go against my conscience which the Lord has given and I will not commit myself to beliefs that I feel is false and damaging to my mental health.

    But I did not come to this site to offend anybody or discourage them about their beliefs. I asked for your prayers.
  2. This is quite the introduction. Welcome. Can you start from the beginning as to why your Christian faith has been mortally wounded? What was the trigger?
    mattjanes likes this.
  3. one issue was meeting people who are unbelievers, are homosexuals, fornicators,and sometimes even drunkerds who we're extremely kind and concernd bout others , sensitive to the needs of others and following the Golden Rule better than myself.

    I lived in the constant agony that's perhaps half or more of the people I meet or see on a daily basis could go to hell if they die , or a friend dies of a drug overdose or commit suicide, the agony of waking up in the morning thinking about them cold and in a coffin and decomposing while they are being tormented forever, separated from God for eternity.

    it was also at seeing how apparently our lord's job of shepherding his people is failing. So many Christians telling Catholics they are going to hell, so many Catholics telling Mormons and Protestants they are going to hell. All of them believing the same book is the word of God and praying to the same Christ. All of them claiming they have the Holy Spirit with a brilliant testimony behind it.

    There is another hundred or more reasons and then others that I can't even put into words as to how I have come to this point essentially being a depressed and confused theological and somewhat moral relativest

    It was the inner torment that religious beliefs were causing me that's caused me to walk away from it.
  4. It is always tough to see a fellow brother or sister in such sadness and disarray. You have a lot of points to cover, brother. I will respond in the next hour or so. I will say a prayer for you until then.
  5. What has your pastor said about your troubles?
    DavidG and christianbacktobasics say Amen and like this.
  6. #6 Euphemia, Jun 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
    God doesn't send people to hellfire because of their deeds. People are condemned because they have rejected the gift of righteousness found only in Jesus Christ and what He did to pay for our sin. If we are not righteous by our faith in Jesus Christ, we will be considered unrighteous and will lose out on the Kingdom. What better deal is there in this universe than to simply place your faith and trust in Jesus Christ?

    What we think about it is not worthy. What God thinks is. Allowing one's aversion to the thoughts of punishment cloud one's understanding of the way of salvation is, in essence, placing oneself above God in judging Him and His PERFECT PLAN for our redemption.

    In truth and in love, I must ask you why you think you possess "Christian faith"? Who do you think Jesus is? this is not about religion---it is about a personal, intimate relationship with the God of the universe through faith in His son, Jesus, the Messiah.

    If you are asking for prayer, I will ask the Lord to send you a fresh revelation of His truth, and I will command the enemy in Jesus' name to withdraw his veil of confusion over you. It's best to start with you---receive salvation---and then you can concern yourself about all the others, and you'll actually have something of substance to offer them.
  7. There are many who have their own virtues but do not know God. Even the most pagan or atheistic know good from evil.

    As other s here have said, nobody goes to Hell for what they have done, they go to Hell for rebellion against God. They are seperated from God because that is what THEY wanted. God does not force Himself on anyone, but does offer Himself to all freely. Every single person in Hell is there because they could not stand to be in Heaven. To be in Heaven is to serve God, not be served by God. Pray for those people, that in time they may come to know God. Where there is life, there is hope.

    Christians are still sinners, and not a few of them are still idiots (think Westboro Baptists). Jesus works with those who are willing to listen to Him, and those are becoming fewer and fewer every day. Are there lots of hypocrits in the churches? - Yes.
    Are there lots of people who are Christian in name only? - Yes. Ignore them and learn from those who actually do listen to God.

    If you know something is true, how can you "walk away from it". Truth is truth, like it or not.
  8. Fear not, you are in a place many have already been before. The Apostle Paul suffered so much, that he thought for sure his life was over. We all at one time in our Christian walk feel that way. But then he says that all these things happened so that he would not trust in him self but in the living God who raises the dead. Stay believing and in the faith, the Lord will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able.

    2Co 1:8 For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself.
    2Co 1:9 Indeed, we felt that we had received the sentence of death. But that was to make us rely not on ourselves but on God who raises the dead.
    Heart_for_Christ likes this.
  9. Hello Matt, what an honest account of your faith at this point in time and I'd have to agree with some of the posts here, many of us have been in the same position as you are now and some even worse. I pray brother you'll stick around here and allow the good Christians here to raise you up again as a person and deal with your issues. I'm assuming you don't have a Pastor who cares for your needs? If not, stay here until you're brought through this and don't worry, some of us have been there before! God bless you and ask what you will....
    Euphemia likes this.
  10. Welcome to the forum.
    Hell is an interesting issue. I believe in conditional immortality, which means that our souls are not inherently eternal. This means that the gift given when you are saved is eternal life in heaven. The flip side of this is that the wicked are punished according to their sins and destroyed. Eternal conscious torment is only very superficially supported, if at all, by the Bible.

    If you would like to discuss this further please PM me. I know it seems strange but it's amazing how much biblical support there is for this view. I fell away from the faith for a long time because of the traditional view of hell, but then I found the truth.
  11. I'm probably going to echo a lot of what has been said to this point but I'll throw in my 2 grey hairs for good measure.

    - Unbelievers, drunkards, fornicators, etc, that are 'good' people and following the golden rule (by this I'm guessing you mean do unto others as you would like done unto you) better than you.

    Unbelievers can do all the 'good' they want; unless they receive Christ they are still lost and still condemning themselves. We do not receive salvation through works, we received it through Christ. Now, if you are insinuating that there are Christians that are fornicators, drunkards, etc; you'd be right. There are those that for whatever reason stumble and instead of tapping into the Grace God gives us as a new person in Christ, they suppress it and reject God's help, forgiveness, love and mercy. Indeed there are lost sheep and those that have stumbled among us, this could be why God led you to this site brother, because you are lost. God is not so much concerned for those that are flocked together than he is about those who have wandered a stray (Luke 15:3-7). Heed God's help through His Spirit pouring out in this thread and humble yourself before Him through prayer, ask for forgiveness and wash yourself with the blood of Jesus to renew yourself.

    - Those who are going to hell and those who are already dead.

    God doesn't send people to hell, we send ourselves to hell. The easiest thing any person can do (and should do) aside from taking a breath is receiving salvation through Jesus Christ. One of the biggest reasons why brothers and sisters get lost is because their relationship with God got less and less until it almost ceased to exist. This could be because they had stopped praying, stopped reading their bible, stopped attending church, etc. As for those who are dead, they're dead, you can't do anything about them now so why worry or stress about it? If you are concerned with those that are still alive, pray that God allows you to be a witness to others to help bring them to the Lord. You can't make an impact on the dead, but with God's guidance if that's what he wills for you, you can make an impact on the living (those who are saved and unsaved). And why are you worried about people decomposing in a coffin? Their temple has been vacated.

    - God shepherding his own.

    Remember, it's the world is going to get worse; nation will fight against nation, brother against brother. Do not fret, do not play a victim; STAND UP and have confidence in your faith and the faith that God knows best and will deliver you from whatever troubles you are experiencing. Use the authority that Lord has given you in the name of Jesus Christ! No more playing the victim! If you do this, the enemy will trample all over you! You are God's child, He will protect you, never forsake you and has given you the tools to make that happen! There will be many false profits, many who are Christian in name only. Ask God to help you discern the difference between what is Godly and what is not.

    Also, I think that some Christians have lost the confidence to rebuke one another when the things that other Christians say or do is not of God but of the enemy. Some of us have become passive and have let our brothers and sisters wander away from the flock only after we've packed their bags for them instead of rebuking them and bringing them back to where they belong.
    Heart_for_Christ and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  12. Might I get you to watch this please:

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  13. Matt, Many, many years ago I found myself in a similar situation, and I prayed to God to take my life, because of what I was going through was way more than I could endure. Of course the Lord did not answer that prayer, and he knew exactly what I was going through. His grace towards me was all I needed to get through. I did not wake up one morning and every thing was fine, it took time for me to recover back. I always knew that when I am weak then am I strong, God,s power is made perfect in weakness.
    I can tell you are not a quitter, and you refuse to go against your conscience which to me is a sign of God,s power working through you. The Devil knows when he see's strength like that in the mist of trying times his kingdom is doomed. This is why he trying very hard to get you to give up. Stay focused on the Lord, and he will never let you down.
    christianbacktobasics likes this.
  14. Great video. I especially like the parts about hell not being about love but justice and the explanation about our book being replaced by that of Jesus' perfect record!
    Abdicate likes this.

  15. Here's a short video about conditional immortality/ annihilationism.
  16. Really, really good reply!
  17. yes I know that people know what is right and what is wrong and it is built in our conscience. In my conscience I believe that there is content in Scripture and Bible that is wrong evil in my book. I think an innocent person being tortured and murdered by a serial killer or tortured and murdered or starve to death in a concentration camp is a tiny minor tragedy compared it to the suffering in hell. the horror and the misfortune is microscopic compared to eternal punishment.​

    And so in my mind, God allowing people for whatever reason to be tortured forever without a second chance for what they do with their short life, is wrong, and as I see it is the greatest evil.
    God could prevent such a thing. The least he could do is speak up to all of this confused people and stop giving us silence.

    the dogma of Hell as it has been described to me is depressing ugly wicked unjust and irrational.

    I understand that there are Christians who give a good defense on the suffering not being eternal. I hope that is the case but it was not the belief of the early Christians, the church fathers or the majority of Christians in this day. So it gives me little comfort
  18. Hey Huntingteckel, I was wondering why someone would come to God for the reason of annihaltionism? I love talking to you brother and we share alot of the same beliefs , but if I knew my punishment was temporary I probably would be just a Sunday Christian. I do love the Lord with all my heart, but I also don't want to go to hell. Hell is permanent just like heaven is. I guess I just need to study what this annihaltion theory is all about :)
  19. I agree that eternal conscious torment seems evil and I don't agree with it because it isn't what the Bible says.

    Unfortunately, I don't know if we should discuss it here as my last thread about it was locked. You can PM me and we'll chat about it though.
  20. I have I only mention this because somebody asked about my pastoralked to many pastors and priests. It is often a consolation. But what I find disgusts me about a lot of the fundamentalist pastors and some penecostals is, what they say is very good up until the point that they start to say the Catholic Church is the Antichrist and there is no salvation for then. Their judgement of some sinners makes me ill as well.

    It bothers me just as much if a Catholic says non Catholics are going to hell or harshly mocks or condemns a sinner or unbeliever.

    I have enormous skepticism and some resentment for what the Catholic Church teaches, but as of now the sacrament of confession and priests and missionaries and Franciscan some Carmelite and orders within that church have helped me the most but I am NOT Catholic

    I'm a heretic :D. Lol


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