1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Human Teachings

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SueJLove, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Wednesday, June 17, 2015, 6:26 a.m. – The Lord Jesus put in mind the song “Wait!” Speak, Lord, your words to my heart. I read Colossians 2:8-23 (ESV).

    Not Captive

    See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

    We have a very serious problem in today’s church here in America in that human teachings and traditions have superseded the Word of God and God’s divine character and will for his people, the church. On the side of tradition, the most grievous, I believe, is this idea that the church is a building and/or an organization or corporation of human origin, and that when we enter some building, built by human hands, that we are somehow entering God’s holy presence, and that we are to think of that building as holy ground and as “God’s house.” Tradition also dictates that we must meet in such a building with such a corporation, usually on Sunday mornings, or else we are considered as “unchurched.”

    So, what’s the big problem here? Well, for one, these corporations are underneath the authority of the federal government of the USA (via the 501c3), which is an evil entity, and is of Satan and of the occult. Don’t believe me? Check out our national symbols, buildings, architecture, statues, and layout of D.C. Much of them are pagan and/or Satanic, of the occult, and/or are patterned after Roman, Greek and Egyptian gods and goddesses. Within 20 years of the declaration of Independence, a treaty was made and a law was passed which stated that the US “is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli. The treaty also stated that the government of the US has “no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility of Muslims.”

    As well, we are taught in this institutional church to worship the US government via our pledge of allegiance to the US flag. A pledge is a vow or an oath. Where in scripture are we taught to take oaths of allegiance to ungodly governments? We are to obey them, with biblical exceptions, i.e. unless they ask us to disobey God. But, we are not to bow to them in worship and with unquestioning devotion and loyalty. “Allegiance” is loyalty, faithfulness, fidelity, devotion, and steadfastness. Is this not what God requires of us, his servants, toward him? YES! And, we are not to give this kind of allegiance to any other but God. So, this institutional church has divided loyalties, and I can tell you from personal experience that many see their loyalty and allegiance to country on the same level as their allegiance to God, as though they are somehow worshiping God by having such devotion to their government, and yet I see Christians in America often much more passionate about allegiance to country than they are passionate about God and their allegiance to him.

    So, what this does is set up the church to follow humans, human traditions and government, and to see this institutional church and these corporations as “God’s house” where we enter God’s “holy presence.” So, Christians end up following after lies and deceptions, and they end up accepting what is ungodly as godly, because that is how it is packaged and has been taught them from birth. This has also opened the door wide within the church for so many false teachings, and for the church to adopt the ways of the world and of big business with their human marketing schemes (tricks, conniving) in order to attract the world into the meetings of the “church.” So, the meetings of the church are now largely patterned after the ways of this sinful world so that the world will want to come to the meetings and will feel “at home.” What is wrong with this picture? So, they must dilute the gospel message to make it more appealing, less offensive, and more comfortable and acceptable to the world, which is no gospel at all, and it gives people a false hope.

    So, what is the truth here which we must follow? For one, the church is not a building, not a corporation and not an organization of human origin, and it is not underneath the authority of the federal government of the USA. A building, called “church,” is also not the house of God, and when we enter that building, we are not entering God’s holy presence. We are not guilty of forsaking the assembling of ourselves just because we don’t attend the meetings of these human corporations, underneath the federal government, which worship an ungodly government, which have divided loyalties, and which are largely following man over God.

    The true church is the body of Christ, his true followers. We are the temple of God. God lives in us in the person of the Holy Spirit. When we enter into our times of prayer and in the study of the word we are thus entering God’s holy presence. We are his sanctuary. His Word, not human marketing schemes and humanistic teaching, is our rule book for life, and it is what teaches us how God wants us, his children, to live. Jesus Christ is our head, not the government, and our pledge of allegiance should be to him, and to him alone. The church can meet together any day of the week and at any location, and it is the church, if we are meeting in the name of Jesus, according to his purposes and his directives. He is the only one we are to follow, and his Word is what we are to teach. Jesus died, not just so we can go to heaven when we die. He died that we might die to sin and live to righteousness.

    A Shadow

    Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

    If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    The Old Testament temple and many of the ceremonial laws under the Old Covenant were just a shadow of things to come, i.e. they were physical figures or representations of what is spiritual. In other words, under the Old Covenant, the physical temple, altar, sacrifices, ceremonial laws, etc. were physical representations of what is now purely spiritual in nature, i.e. we now worship God in spirit and in truth, we are the temple, the holy of holies now dwells within us, and the sacrifices now which God requires are those of our lives given over to God, holy and pleasing to him. Circumcision is now of the heart, not of the skin of man. So, we are no longer under those Old Covenant rules and regulations and ceremonial laws. Yet, many Christians are still holding on to those traditions, some of which are not bad in and of themselves, unless one feels he must do these things in order to be saved or in order to be in conformity with God’s will and purposes for his church, and/or if he tries to inflict those beliefs on others who have been set free from all that.

    For instance, there is nothing wrong with the church meeting on a Sunday morning or in a building. What is wrong, besides all the things stated in the previous section of this writing, is when the church tries to inflict these types of things on others who believe that we, as the body of Christ, should come out from “Babylon” and be separate, so that we don’t share in her sins, and who also believe that we don’t have to go to a specific building on a specific day in order for us to be meeting together with the church. So, for us, we should not allow others to judge us wrongly because we are following the teachings under the New Covenant, and we no longer hold to many of those old traditions which have been passed down from generation to generation.

    We should also not let anyone disqualify (condemn, decide against) us because we don’t participate in these corporations of men, in their idolatry, false worship, and in their oaths to ungodly governments, or because we hold to the truths of scripture with regard to the gospel of our salvation as taught by Jesus and by the apostles. Many of these institutions of church are deciding against true followers of Christ, and are casting us aside because we don’t fit with their marketing schemes and business plans and goals for how to build their businesses, which they call “church,” and because we expose lies and teach truth. They call us disunifiers, intolerant, outdated, judgmental, trouble makers, and the like. They don’t want us to meet with them, anyway, because we might make someone uncomfortable, and they may not come back, because we teach death to sin and living to righteousness, and because we oppose the lies and deceptions being passed down as truth, and the false teachings which have infiltrated the institutional church. They are also quite willing to help us find someplace else to meet with the church where we will be a “better fit.”

    Yet, we should not let their condemnation of us or their exclusion and rejection of us to lead us to fear, or to be afraid to follow the Lord, thinking somehow God has abandoned us, too, or that God is limited by what man does or does not do. God is completely sovereign over our lives, and he has a plan and a purpose for us, even when humans reject us. Also, their rejection of us does not mean God cannot use us. God still has a place for each one of us within his body (his whole body across the globe), and he will still use us within the body of Christ for his purposes, if we are willing, and if we are obedient. We should never return to following after human flesh, whether our own or that of others, out of fear or pressure that, if we do not, that we are somehow not in God’s will or that we are being disobedient to God. We should stand strong on the truth of God’s word, and not let humans intimidate us and to pressure us into doing what we know is wrong. None of their human-based traditions and teachings have any power or value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

    Wait! / An Original Work / February 8, 2014

    Wait for your Lord. Be of courage.
    Be strong, and take heart today.
    God is always watching o’er you.
    Trust Him with your life always.

    Sing of your Lord. Praise His blessings.
    Believe in His sovereignty.
    He delivered you from your sin;
    Gave you life eternally.

    Rest in your Lord. Know His promise.
    Beneath His wings rest secure.
    Your God has a plan and purpose.
    Let your faith in Him endure.

    Trust in your Lord. He’ll not leave you,
    Because He is faithfulness.
    He will lead and guide; protect you.
    In His love you can find rest.

  2. Interesting. The church in america seems to me to put on a lot of 'show'. Have you seen the movie or read the book called Elmer Gantry?
  3. I have heard the name, but I am not familiar with the book or movie. Why? What is it about?
  4. I looked it up. I think I saw the movie many years ago. It is about a con artist preacher of sorts and his game show, basically.
  5. They had to put a warning on that movie because it would offend a lot of american christians who are mislead by those types of con artist preachers.
  6. I suppose it would. I can't recall the year that came out. Looks like the 50's or 60's. They had a lot of movies back then depicting Christians as religious fanatics, crazy, or crooked. They were not generally complimentary of Christians, from what I can recall. Usually painted us as uneducated idiots who have no common sense. I use to watch a lot of TV back then, and I watched a lot of those old movies, so I do faintly recall some of them and how they portrayed those who called themselves Christians. They were particularly hard on preachers of the gospel.
  7. I appreciate your antagonism to despotism, but do you feel that our government should be a "Christian government"; a theocracy of force that would forbid other religious practice in the confines of the law?

    thank you for your many scriptural insights
  8. No, the movie was fine, it was not very complimentary to fake christians thats all. But if you decieved, suppose you would not know the difference. It was a hard hitting movie. The book explained it quite well..i think it was Sinclair Lewis that wrote it..if not mistaken.
  9. Well they were preaching another gospel.
  10. I think "Christian" and "government" are two separate entities. I don't believe any religion should be forced on anyone. Jesus did not force anyone to believe on him. I don't believe Christians should try to force their doctrines and practices on others, though I believe we are to share the gospel of salvation and that we are to show Christ to others by how we live our lives. So, I believe in separation of church and state. I would not want another religion forced on me or on my children and grandchildren. I believe government has no place in the church, for the church is not a physical organization, but is a spiritual organism. The government should not be head over the church, for Christ is the head of his body. You can't serve two masters. The fact that our government is evil just adds to the insult, because we have invited the government into the church, and we have, thus, invited Satan into the meetings of the church, and the church has been on a huge spiritual decline because it is following humans instead of God. We are not to be partners with the world or with what is evil, and yet the church has partnered with the government via the 501c3, and they have partnered with the world via all these human marketing schemes for how to build their organizations which they call "church."
  11. Thanks. Well, fake Christianity and fake preachers do need to be exposed.
  12. I agree with your ethical position

    America in its beginning was one of the first nations on earth to engineer a "separation of church and state" ethical position within a bill of rights, though it was only Jefferson who used the terminology.

    It was in America, a quazi-standard, for almost a hundred years that government could not intervene with the church or participate in its operations in almost all scenarios, yet it was the early church in the mid 1800's that would incrementally support intervention and invite ruling powers into the fold for forced management. Each wave of expanding socialistic power was eager to meet the churches request on many fronts and legal intervention began to accumulate and amass to the grotesque apparatus of intervention that it is today. To your wise assertions the church today is subservient to the state in its ministry operations by willful contract. First it was broad intervention, then intervention regarding sin, then intervention regarding marriage, then intervention for operations/money and then intervention regarding education. Today its the norm, the standard, and a given that coercive power is a partner in body-ministry, marriage, education, and tithes/offerings, yet most churches are unaware of the existing interventionist model.

    When a nation is raised behind bars, the bars are no longer devices that are seen to captivate, bind and restrict, but begin to be seen as devices that facilitate, provide and safeguard.
    SueJLove likes this.
  13. I see so many ways we were brought up (I am 65) to accept this relationship with the government, not only as normal, but as godly and holy and righteous, and that is what is scary about the whole thing. I think the present pledge to the flag was brought into being (added to) in the 1950's during Eisenhower's administration, if I am remembering correctly. TV came out in the early 50's or late 40's, and that has diabolically altered (influenced) the American family, values, morals, etc. as well as it has been instrumental in this whole worship of government. It reminds me much of the teaching about the beast in Revelation. The TV is a lot like the image of the beast (it could be the image). So many households live their lives around the TV set, and now personal computers, tablets, smart phones, and the like, and so many children and adults are now addicted to pornography, largely because of the ease of access and loss of accountability. And, so the church has taken a giant nose dive and it is on the way to be spit out of God's mouth.
  14. Just on another topic but related to your thread sue is tv. Much of the tv ppl exposed to, coming from america, has influenced ppl in other countries too. A lot of tv shows fornication and outright pornography.

    The other day was shocked to find out that one if the local schools PRINCIPAL had porn on his computer. Not sure if it was child porn which would be even worse but why is it that principals dont know any better? They just thinking its normal???
  15. Sorry to hear that. We live in an age of great deception. We need to be so wise and discerning.
  16. #16 Great Fiction, Jun 18, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
    I agree, we are all brought up to embrace the compulsory status quo

    Is it possible that in the 1700's the church understood the evils of compulsory organized coercion from thrones of men and were highly influential in our founding to demand ethical and scriptural natural rights, but failed to abolish slavery and compulsory monetary intervention? Thus a wicked and ethical set of mixed compromises were made by those who led, who manufactured law in variance?

    Is it possible that in the 1800's their children and grand-children then seeing slavery flourish to hideous despotism then became ethical to political influence to finally abolish it, which was good? Yet also with their new found power of a religious majority, many in power would now leverage them politically; also many in the faith would abandoned love in exchange for the gavel in order to orchestrate punitive judgement for an array of scriptural non-aggressive trespass, which started an evil legacy of moral-interventions against the non-aggressor?

    Is it possible that in the 1900's the children of the interventionist church found a misery of perversions in society due to the mass intervention that would not only blur the lines of justice, but also for authoritarian oversight for what is "morally good" in the confines of the church and society? Compulsory progressive socialistic conservatism on the right, and compulsory progressive economic socialism on the left now has its feet dug in deep, and many in the church for the first time without awareness becomes legislated to subservience. The church in this stage has now forgotten and abandoned ethics, a scriptural charge of harmlessness, and the importance of natural rights which empower the church to worship in spirit and truth.

    Yet not all is lost, for the great great grandchildren of Americas earliest church is now "experiencing" in moderate measures the perversion and despotism that was warned about, and are now with increasing numbers gaining sobriety to discover and recognize the vast array of interventionist layers of authoritarianism that could cause the church to suffer eradication. I find that its highly possible that in the confines of non-aggression , prayer and integrity, that many in the church will continue to bravely stand up void of vain politics, and simply charge authority for ethics and natural rights. For there are many ethical movements in our country that support natural rights in their wisdom, and has so far remained rigid to respect our governing authorities in process to prevent offenses. It is my hope that the move may endure to remain always benign in its culmination to require ethical law and natural rights.

    A church that defends natural rights, defend non-aggression, and non-aggression removes the one that hinders the gospel; it is in that place of non-aggression where hindrance is not organized, the church removes not only its punitive reputation but its own supported forces that would harm the non-aggressor arbitrarily. It is in that place of non-aggression where the church is blameless, full of love, and ethical to stand in the gap for the sinner. It is in that place of non-aggression where revival, a shift in Godly power will transfigure lives through the churches outstretched hands.

    I pray for my nation to know ethics again, liberty and most of all Christ which authored both.
    Big Moose likes this.
  17. Honestly, I did horrible in history and social studies in school. I did horrible in science, too. I was pretty good at language and math, unless the math got too complicated. So, I really don't know about the history of which you speak. What I have learned in recent years about what is going on in the world I have learned at the feet of Jesus, as he has taught me so much and led me to so much truth. But, I wouldn't know any of that if he had not sat me down and showed it to me.

    He had to first teach me that I could learn, because I didn't believe I could. I would avoid reading anything too complicated or much of anything about world politics, because I believed I couldn't understand it. So, he took me back to college when I was in my 50's and he taught me that I could learn. In high school I graduated with a 1.4 GPA. In college the first time around I had a 2.5. This time, in my 50's, and not even sure I would pass the entrance exam, I got straight A's, but only by the grace of God. I got an entrepreneur certificate, and thought about continuing in business, but the Lord had other plans for me.

    I believe the main purpose for me going back to school was just to teach me that I could learn. Then, when God called me to this ministry, he had me reading all kinds of articles, even science and history articles, and I still didn't understand all of it, but he taught me much, and he stretched me a lot. So, what I know I mainly know because he taught me, and because he led me to do the research I needed. So, I said all of that just to let you know that I didn't understand everything you said, but I will try. And, also to agree with you that we need to pray for the people of our nation, or whatever nation, to know Christ above all else, and everything else will fall into place after that.

    Thank you for your input.
  18. #18 JohnC, Jun 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
    It's interesting that we forget the primary reason we are NOT to follow after "Teachings of Man"... WHY the "False teachers" are truly so harmful.....

    What we don't often openly acknowledge is that what the "False teachers" and the "Prophets of the culture" proclaim may in fact be TRUE factually.... The things they proclaim may well even be "True" scripturally in the sense that they are not patently contrary to God's word..... See - things that are obviously false are EASY to sniff out and reject out of hand....

    The issue is generally one of Focus.... While the things that these are proclaiming may well be factually true, and they may be scripturally accurate (Meaning the scripture they cite does say what they are proclaiming) - what they do is to disrupt the clear focus and the concerted efforts towards God's Plan for you RIGHT NOW....

    So... For example - within The Church in America.... we see teachers and preachers dragging their congregations in 52 *Different* directions each year... Each week - they preach a sermon that is not related to the last one.... Each week - they preach a sermon which is not ALIGNED with any particular long term goal in mind.... While EACH of these sermons may well be "Good messages" and "Scripturally accurate" and "Consistent with the Word of God" - what we find is that they are not ALIGNED with God's plan.... The Believers never progress from "Point A" to "Point B" to complete God's objective - because the messages they receive aren't intended to actually accomplish this...

    As such - all these "Good messages" turn out to actually be harmful because they never Align the believer with God's program for right now..... BUT - since they SOUND good and are scripturally based and speak of messages which APPEAR to be pertinent to our challenges today - we accept them as Godly and don't challenge them.....

    This becomes obvious as you look back to The Law and the revolts against Moses... When you TRULY examine the words of Korah or Miriam and Aaron or The Elders - you see that they were Scripturally accurate and "Consistent with The Law" on the face of it.... BUT - their FOCUS was wrong... If they would have followed through - they would have ended up wandering in the wilderness forever, or back in Egypt.... Neither of which were God's Plan....

  19. #19 JohnC, Jun 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
    While the "Times of the Gentiles" spoken of by Daniel continues - we must understand that "Pagan Rulers" will receive dominion.....

    One of our jobs is to continue to disgorge the "Things of God" from the "Hands of Caesar" so to speak.... This is the heart of the message behind "Take up your cross".... The pushback against and resistance to Government as it attempts to usurp the Things of God....

    We must understand that Government is VERY keenly aware of the fact that without Religion - it has a MUCH harder time cementing control over the populous.... As such - Government will continue to make attempts to "Control Religion" as a method of controlling the population... Sometimes these attempts masquerade as "End arounds" using procedures and excuses to skirt the law.... Sometimes as "Dangling carrots"... Sometimes, out and out open attempts to wrest control over The Church by violence and threats of violence... We must be WISE and understand that the END GAME of all of these is the same... It has NOTHING to do with the church and has everything to do with Control....

    Great Fiction likes this.
  20. He knew better. He thought he wouldn't get caught, or that it was "no big deal".
    People lie to themselves, and they do it CONSTANTLY.
    Years ago I saw part of a Jerry Springer program that discussed sex among underage siblings. One of the people on the panel was completely convinced that such behavior was commonplace (i.e. everybody does it) and so justified his own behavior.
    In other words, he lied to himself to avoid the natural shame that his perverted behavior should have caused.
    I see examples of this type of willful self-deception in the news every day.

Share This Page