Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Intojoy, Oct 8, 2013.
How much sinning can I do and still stay saved?
What does being perfected forever mean?
"No, Lord," she said. And Jesus said, "Neither do I. Go and sin no more."
One wonders why anyone would want to know just how far the Lord can be pushed. I suspect Satan tried to sound the depths of the Lord's grace and whoosh! he was out on his gluteus maximus.
Maybe a better question would be "how few sins can I do today?"
I think one can only wonder -- I doubt we will ever know what we can "get away with" until the after life.
I suspect Intojoy is asking as almost a devil's advocate or in wonder--not flirting with the idea of sinning and getting away with it. It's a fair question to ask. However, I think those who ask for the sake of sinning and still hoping to enter into the Kingdom are doing damage to their own souls.
We're certainly not justified by faith alone as the scriptures say -- what we do and how we live our lives are extremely important (not to be confused with working your way into salvation).
If someone repents and asks forgiveness for his sins and then continues to sin because he has the idea that all he has to do is continue to ask forgiveness, has he really repented? These are intentional sins, and the idea of sinning intentionally because you can just ask forgiveness as much as you want is in itself a sin and needs to end.
To be perfected forever is what it says -- those who have been sanctified. Those who are sanctified are the ones who have reached the Kingdom of Heaven.
Unforgiven sins? None.
Willingness to sin, in and of itself, is a sign of a unregenerate heart, and that is damning in and of itself.
Folks don't end up in Hell for what they have done, they end up in Hell for what they ARE.
A man commits rapes, because he is a rapist. Rapist go to Hell. If at some point in hs life he repents and acknowledges his sin, and is forgiven, he is reformed and is no longer a rapist.
How far can you push God? Right to the gates of Hell, He will even hold the door open for you if you wish to strut right in. The choice is yours.
You must not count your sins. I admit that it is very very hard to keep away from some temptations. I was afraid that God may be mad at me but keep still making sins. But then I realized, you must not count sins. Instead of counting your sins, try to exert an effort to pray to God, and always ask for his forgiveness. That he should not get mad at us.
As many as you want to 1 Cor 10:23, ...but because of the unavoidable repercussions of the Spiritual Principle of Rom 6:23, the wages of sin is death, ...death will enter into your physical body, there will be a death in your emotional life and there will be the death of your spiritual life, ...hereafter in Eternity, you will lack the rewards from service and faith.
A careful reading/understanding of Hebrews 10:14 has nothing to do with your first question.
Since the wages of sin is death, Death then is "separation" from God eternally.
But specifically to the question asked.......there is no such thing as an un-judged sin.
I'm not following you here Major, those of us who are born again do reap the repercussions of our sin, even though we are pardoned, just look at the life of David for example, ...and then an example in a believers life today if he/she should decide to have an extramaritial affair, they are still saved, that sin was paid for on the cross, but if they contract AIDS then there will be death (seperation of soul & spirit from the body) forcoming, and there could be a death of their marriage (seperation emotional/soulish), and during the time they were in sin their relationship with the Lord was dead (seperation spiritual), so for a believer we can be sure our sin will find us out Num 32:23 and even though saved there will be repercussions, ...the salary must be paid, it's a Spiritual Principal.
I'm not a Greek scholar, so if there is some one here that is please chime, but from my simple book, "Learn Greek in 25 Lessons," the word perfected - teleioō is in the Perfect Active Indicative tense, which means in layman's language, ...it's a done deal, so those who are in Christ are already perfect in the eyes of the Father.
So then Heb 10:14 is actually/factually telling us we don't have any works to do for our salvation, it was all done for us with Jesus offering His blood on the alter in Heaven, we who are in Christ are spotless, just as if we have never sinned, blameless.
The secret imho is in a study on Jesus's advice on marriage. Whatever advice He gives on it is very applicable to us Christians! The Jews were dating God, we are in a full relationship with Him. So the question becomes...as the bride of Christ, how can we lose our salvation?
1. Jesus teaches that He never wants divorce (Mark 10:9). OSAS believers can be forgiven here .
2. But then He also says that fornication (Matt 19) is grounds for divorce.
3. He says if one commits sin He will forgive us 7x70 times a day Matt 18:21,22.
Fornication is singled out amongst all other types of sin as it is the most painful thing that can happen to a loving partner. So how do we fornicate against God? It is surely inline with grieving the Holy Spirit / unpardonable sin? We need to look deeper at the heart condition required for adultery. What is going through the heart of an adulterer? A once off adulterer is 8/10 rebellion. A consistent adulterer is 10/10 inner rebellion! Where no sincere repentance for Matt 18:22 can kick in.
Fornication = extremity of sin.
No sincerity in repentance = continuing in a sin.
Conclusion: Continue in an extremity of sin and you better be dead nervous of hell!
Yes my friend, I agree, .......David sinned and look at what happened to him. Even though he loved God, he sinned and God had to judge him for it. Remember, it was some time before David confessed what he had done and even then he did not do it on his own accord. God had to send a prophet to confront him.
After Nathan confronted him, that was when he repented of his sin. Then the judgment of God for that sin was severe, and IMO part of the reason for the severity was David's failure to repent sooner than he actually did.
When we as believers in the Lord commit sin today whether it be an affair or stealing or lieing, their is a price to be paid.
It is my conviction that if you and I deal with our sin genuinely, openly and quickly, God can and will lessen the severity of our discipline. I think that you will agree that this makes sense in light of the nature of discipline. Discipline is for the purpose of getting us to change---to obey!! If God sees that we want to cooperate and that we have decided in our hearts to do better the next time, hard discipline is not usually needed.
But, none of that applies to the un-believer. The un-believer according to Ephesians 2:1 is DEAD in his sin.
He must be made ALIVE which is "BEING SAVED" and then he can repent of his sins, but before that he is SEPERATED from God because of his sin and IF he dies in that condition, he will be eternally SEPERATED from God, which is the second death.
After the un-believer comes to Christ, they will continue to repent as they grow in Christian faith and character. This repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of behavior.
Mornin' Bro, top of the morning to ya!
I agree with you completely, I was just pointing out another facet of the subject, ...using David as an example, he was a man after God's own heart, but the Spiritual Principal was still in force in his life, the baby conceived in fornication with Bathsheba died, Amnon raped his sister, Absalom rebelled and took over the Kingdom, defiling David's concubines and in his advanced age he probably had a problem with his circulatory system and experienced coldness in his limbs, personally I believe these problems came about in his life because he was reaping the salary of his sins.
In my own life I believe the Lord has shown me there have been attacks by the devil (just like Job) that has caused me injury and when the test was over the Lord healed me, but then, because of my debauched life of 37 years before I was saved there are illnesses that are the reaping from my sinful life style.
The Spiritual Principal behind the wages of sin is death, in whatever form it might take, cannot be circumvented any more than the Physical Principles of gravity, inertia, centrifugal force, et. al. can be ignored, ...unless God steps in in His unfathomable mercy and grace, ...and I'm convinced He does that in the lives of all people, saved or unsaved, ...because if He didn't this planet would be void of human life.
The more I walk with Him, the longer I talk with Him, the more I get to know Him, the more I'm blessed by Him and see and learn what a vile, despicable worm that I am ........I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface of the subject of His Grace..........
Yes sir! David paid greatly for his sin. The rest of his life was a burden and not a blessing!
The use of "perfected" involves the completed cleansing of regeneration (Titus 3:5).
Here in Hebrews 10:14 is revealed the two fold nature of salvation. The believer possesses a positional, judicial standing of righteousness and second..... a remaining need for practical, progressive holiness.
What's the nature of the question? Curiosity?
I'm floored that a person, claiming the name of the Christ for their own, would disregard the children on the web and ask such a question. The crux of the matter lies in motive. The LORD knows our heart and if you "plan" to sin just one sin, it is wise to examine yourself because the Christian is not concerned with such a matter unless they are Christian, only, by membership in a local Church. You will not get away with a single planned sin. This, once again, calls for a good study, perhaps from the Nave's Topical.
He may only be asking in a more matter of fact basis rather than what he wants to get away with. One hopes it's the former.