How Does A Baby Sin???

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by dUmPsTeR, Feb 5, 2015.

  1. That is the question; how does a baby sin?

    I guess I need a little clarification.

    Do infants sin? And is it a matter of free will or born into sin?

    Ever notice how babies are so innocent?

    Messiah Jesus speaks about children also. Is He trying to tell us something?

    Anyhow, just my thoughts and questions that have been perplexing me of late.
  2. They don't. Babies are not able to reason, and thus not able to sin. Traditionally the "Age of Reason" is considered to be around 7 years old. Reports from a few of those who have had more involved "near death experiences" is that there are no children, mentally retarded, or otherwise mentally disabled in Hell. The innocent who die are given a free pass to Heaven.
    They have the "sin nature", but are not capable of acting upon it.
    dUmPsTeR, Ravindran and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  3. This discussion has the potential to completely embarrass some Christians and their belief.

    A babies greatest sin is being too cute. Jesus said heaven belongs to them. He is trying to tell us....that heaven belongs to them.

    It is fine if some believe babies are born with sin. But then they must at least have the savvy to grasp that sin NEVER EVER equaled Hades! We are ALL sinners. ONLY those that love the darkness are en route to Hades / Hell and then the lake of fire. A baby, a mentally handicapped person and an animal CANNOT love the darkness. We can know someone loves the darkness by looking at their evil deeds John 3:19. This is why your OP question is actually quite good (y).
    dUmPsTeR and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  4. Echoing what others have said here,
    There is original sin, which we all are conceived with thanks to the fall of man...and then there is personal sin which is what we do. Babies are incapable of personal sin, though they are regarded as sinner by default due to original sin.

    Young children who haven't yet developed understanding and reason do not have personal sin. My cousin, who is 19-years-old now and severely autistic, has not developed the same understanding even a 5-year-old has, and so I'm not sure I can count him as having personal sin either. Though he was born with the stain of original sin.
    dUmPsTeR and Ravindran say Amen and like this.
  5. An apple seed has produced no apples let alone the tree.
    Yet it is by nature born of another apple seed and will by nature given time produce apples .
    For every seed is by that law of God predestined to bring forth fruit after its own kind.

    Thus we are ALL born in sin and shapen in iniquity . Even Mary the mother of the Lords flesh .
    What does it mean to be born in sin?
    It means we are born of Adams seed who is the father of us all .
    and as "levi was in the loins of Abraham when he gave tithes to Malchesidech"
    Then all men were in the loins of Adam when he disobeyed God and became by doing so subject to sin and death even as he did .
    "For as IN the first Adam all die even so shall all men IN the last Adam or Christ shall all be made alive" 1Cor 15:22.
    As he corrupted himself so all IN him were also corrupted .
    and while HE was CREATED in the image of God .We are BORN in the image of Adam.
    Thus we are BORN IN sin and SHAPEN in iniquity .
    To all and any then who hope to lay claim to their own righteousness on the foundation of a new born childs lack of sin . They lay their foundation upon sand . For "all our righteousness's is as filthy rags in HIS sight " though in mans it might seem fine like the fig leaf did .
    The matter of free will.
    In very truth .
    When Eve partook of that fruit that God said not to eat .
    Whos will then did she do?
    Clearly her own.
    For by her own perception she SAW that it was good to eat. and by her own reasoning based upon her perception she reasoned "it would make her wise "
    She did eat then of her own free will . But whos will did she do ?
    Gods ? who said though shalt not eat of it ?
    Or the serpents who said she could with no evil consequences but good ones?
    It was not Gods will clearly . For she did eat what God said not to eat and for good reason .
    It was the serpents will for he sought their death an"bondage by the fear of death"
    So we should not get hung up too much on the matter of free will . For as a sinner a man is inclined to sin .Not towards holiness .
    It is not until he is faced with the Gospel does he have another choice and is able and free to do so .To do the devils will or Gods.
    Gods will is "that none should perish but that all should come to a knowledge fo the truth"
    But what is mans will? To be willing to come to a knowledge of the truth even as he is so led by God .
    Or to reject the truth as he is led and deceived by the devil?
    Things have not changed at all and those who reject Gods account of our beginings or compromise it with the worlds idea .Will and can and are deceived in doing so.
    Simply by the same expedient as it was in the beginning adding 'N O T " and thus changed the truth into a lie .

    in Christ
  6. If heaven belongs to those like children in their faith and natural acceptance of the generosity of life and of it being good . It is not due to their cuteness .
  7. Mentally handicapped children and autistic children can and do know right from wrong .
    Though not on the level of anybody else .
    But I once knew a severely handicapped child who physically was about 10 or 11 but seemed to have an understanding of about 5 and spoke hardly a word and was 'lost' in his own little world .
    I had set up a large double swings at the bottom of a very long garden and fixed it in concrete . Thus young man kept wanting to touch the wet concrete with his foot and in o uncertain terms I told him not to and finally said if you do it again I will make you sit on that chair at the opposite end for an hour and took him up to it and repeated .If he did not understand every thing .He did understand he was not to go and touch that concrete at the other end .
    It was a lovely summers day and we were all out in the garden . and lo and behold(it still works) I watched him for over an hour stopping and starting slowly walking down the garden and towards the swings .
    I knew the moment he started what he was going to do and watched him as he planned and executed his offence .
    As he approached within a foot of the cement I warned him again as I had every so often as he made his way towards it what would happen if he touched it .
    He put his foot above the cement about 6inches .I reminded him once more .He still put his foot on the cement . So I grabbed his hand told him off and marched back up to the bench with him protesting and shouting all the way up . Plonked him down where he stayed quite voluntarily till I told him he could leave .He did not touch the cement again.

    in Christ
  8. Not all mentally handicapped people are the same. Some are more severe than other. Some have the mental capacity of a 10-year-old and some have the mental capacity of a 10-month-old. The person you mentioned was, as you said, mentally 5-years-old. My cousin, who is older, is mentally around 2-years-old. These are two different levels of course.

    Small children, before the age of reason, may react and even act disobediently, but when they are too young to understand, it is outside of their reasoning. When a 1-year-old kicks and screams, he isn't doing it because he consciously decided to act against what he was told -- he does it because he doesn't understand why it's wrong.

    We're speaking generally here too, but the point is that when personal sin takes place when you can understand the difference between right and wrong, or rather, obedience and disobedience.
  9. I had hoped I had covered that point .I don't disagree with you .
    But that handicapped children can and do sin is and in my experience certain . But it is according to the light you have is the measure by which you are judged .
    In my case while working and living alongside them . I never asked them to do something I did not think they could do or understand what I required. Many did not often like it and conspired with other handicapped children of varying capacity to thwart what I wanted and used the less able to try to do so! who was also in on it . So not as 'dumb' as you might think lol
    I was quite amazed to be frank .

    in Christ

    But I would also add that they are more sinned against than sin.
    Having been a child on the other hand and having raised up two of my own and observations of others. If children were by nature good then you would not have to teach them to be good they would do it by nature .
    Even as God who IS good is always good and does good because that is his nature .
    But you do not teach children to lie that comes naturally as does any number of sins .
    If then they were sinless they would need to be taught or deceived to do evil even as it was in the beginning with Adam .
    But as they know how to lie and so on by nature then their nature is not as good as people seem to think it is .
  10. Psalm 51:5
    I have been evil from the day I was born

    We are born in sin; that's that fact of the matter.
  11. The KJV is much better; please refer to that by hovering over the Bible reference on my previous post. :)
  12. I suppose a parent quickly discovers that a child has a mind and will of its own .
    and then comes the challenge of not trampling either under foot . But teaching them to recognise true authority (not just power) and in love submitting to it . Though it has also to be recognised by the parents that they cannot excersise authority without being under authority and quite often use POWER! to enforce their will than simple authority .

    in Christ
  13. I think the heart of the discussion is more on those who have no self-awareness of what they do, good or bad. This is why it's easiest to use infants in this category. When we go into 5-year-olds or mentally disabled people, we CAN enter grey areas.

    This point of the discussion is really understanding original sin from personal sin.
  14. Sin is pretty much falling short of God's moral standards.. Does a baby fall short of God's moral standards? Certainly yes! Paul writes this in Romans 7,

    Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead

    A person does not realize sin without knowing the law. Does a baby have the capability to realize the law? I don't think so. A baby covets toys of another baby. Babies tell lies. Though their lies are so cute, lie is a lie! They do not honor father and mother sometimes through their disobedience (though parents secretly like it!!) This is because of the original sin. And the sin nature in them. But that does not attribute personal sin to them. The reason is, they do not have the mind to perceive law and understand the moral standards.

    This is why I believe babies cannot sin. We cannot come up with a number to say that is when babies mature and anything beyond that is a sin! We can never do that. My 3 year old daughter says she is a new creation now. She says - old Janice is now gone and she is a new Janice now. And after some 10 mins, she completely turns cranky :D Do I encourage her saying that? Certainly!! It puts the right seed in her heart to understand the importance of being born again. One day she will understand the meaning of that. One day she will say that with a true understanding of that. Same goes with understanding moral standards of God. If I ask what Romans 3:23 is, she can say the verse exactly. She has memorized it. She does not know the meaning of it yet.
  15. A lot of interesting comments. I appreciate everyones time and attention. I've got a lot to consider. Thank you.
    Ravindran likes this.
  16. (y)
  17. You commented quite a mouthful there. And I kind of got lost when you mentioned Eve because I thought Eve was deceived.
    2 Corinthians 11:3
    But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

    How would you equate that with Eves' will?

    And hopefully I'm not getting too far off track here, but you mention the death that came from eating the forbidden fruit. Is that the death of not getting eternal life like Messiah Jesus says, 'let the dead bury the dead'?
  18. Yes eve was deceived, it was different from adams sin which was wilful disobedience. Adam heard directly from God, eve only heard what adam told her, and then the serpent. It was the sin of adam that affected man, I guess, and eves gullibility that affects women.
    Babies are born into a world where their parents sinned, so they follow after their parents I suppose. But yes they are innocent as they dont know any better, but when they grow up and learn the difference between good and evil as their parents taught them.
    So...interesting question.
    I dont know how old cain was when he committed the first murder. But you can see that sibling rivalry with abel starts from early ages in children.
  19. There's a study that 60 Minutes spoke on about this very subject and I thought it was very well done. Here ya go:

    This shows, and proves the word of God to be true. Law written on our hearts (good), Rom 2:15, biased against those NOT like us (sin), Gen 4:1-8. Despite their evolutionary thoughts, the fact that the older kids became more generous is right out of the word of God, Pro 22:6.
  20. This looks interesting -- I look forward to seeing it.

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