How Do You Test the Speaking in Tongues

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by gemma, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. Bondman...........I do not understand why this conversation makes you sad. Ihave read nothing that should cause you to feel that way. There is my opinion shared understanding on this subject and no amount of love or feelings or thoghts will change what one belieives. IMO there has been more than enough love, and understanding about others here on this subject.

    Not everyone will come to believe what we think to be true. Again, if you want to speak in tongues, then do so, but that does not mean that we all have to do so.

    God bless you and heal you in Jesus name!
     
  2. verse 5 is a "comparitive" statement. Rather than speak in tongues..........Paul wanted all the believers to prophesy.
     
  3. Just a word of caution: Interlinears often vary from one to the other, as they don't always based the translation on the original word used in the Hebrew or Greek, but translate based on the translation used by the author who translated and may not have used a word that best fits the Greek or Hebrew but rather his personal understanding of what the verse should say.....I learned this the hard way.

    Ginger

    I hope that was clear, but if not here is an example. Someone writes a letter in Spanish saying, "I hope you all behave while you're here."
    I Translate the comments into Enlgish, but state what I think the speaker meant to say instead of what he actually said, "I will make sure you all behave while you're here."

    Now, the person who wants to help everyone clearly understand what is meant by the words written is giving the Spanish interpretation of the English words "make sure" instead of the Spanish word "hope"

    LOL
     
  4. To my dear brother in Christ, Bondman, the reason why I had to post more than once about 1 Corinthians 14:5 is because I wanted to emphasize something. The above post is you talking about the first part of Verse 5 - just the part on tongues. So I replied to you with a long post from 1 Corinthians 12:31-14:13. I wasn't persuasive of my understanding of Verse 5.

    Lastly, the second post of...
    I did not see any further explanation about Paul desiring more that we prophesy.

    If that was not your intent, I sincerely apologize. I feel terribly bad when you became frustrated and disinterested in the forum program and us. I do not want you to think that I don't value your wisdom and knowledge, not just first-hand knowledge on tongues, but I do and I THANK YOU for everything you've shared. I am still going to pray for you and your wife, just like what I said in another thread.

    Love,
    Gemma

     
  5. To MAJOR, GINGER, and GEMMA!!

    I love you all, and much appreciate your comments and concern. THANK YOU!! I think that maybe my virtually life-time ill-health has now FINALLY gone one step too far, putting me into the category where I should not post nor teach further UNTIL God's miracle heals us, and releases our ministry millions from the bank in London. And THEN I expect to be off using these funds in far-flung places where Western churches quite fail to take the blessed Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ (a mere 0.5% of church budgets are used to reach the unreached).

    GEMMA, you sure were quick off the mark to quote from my messed-up post before I saw this and completely changed it! I messed the original up by not putting part of it in a quote, then the forum program further messed it up by changing the colour, the font, and the size!

    This is a thread about tongues, not prophecy, But in my posts and particularly Scripture quotations, I don't think I actually ignored prophecy. You've read some of my Inner Room messages and appreciated them. Surely you wouldn't think that I can't see Paul's strong words about Prophecy. I'm an intelligent, long-term, fully-committed, mature Christian man, and total bond-slave to Jesus since 1999. I'm 72, have walked with the Lord 54 years, and have never been away from Him for even one moment of that time. When Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:19 for example - among many other similar verses - that he'd sooner speak 5 words with his understanding than 10,000 in a tongue, this couldn't possibly be more clear that PROPHECY ALWAYS, ALWAYS TRUMPS TONGUES!!! Please, dear, dear Gemma, I would never be 'having a go' at you, no way, but rather am 'defending' who I am in the Lord by now - like Paul had to do on so MANY occasions! (I'm certainly NOT perfect; nor was he - tho the words he wrote, of course, are.) Note that I'm not aligning myself with Paul - I doubt that anyone could keep up with him!

    GINGER, I suspect it would be most interesting as well as enlightening to know your life story. You've stated that you speak bluntly, but you've been more "gentle" with me, which I really appreciate (not that I can't 'take' it - just do not need it with so much of my body disasterised). You wrote a warning about trusting Interlinear Greek translations, and I thank you and am truly sorry you had to find out the hard way! Once again I'm here 'defending' my position and who I am. I was given my Interlinear in 1957 (or maybe '58). It is arguably the top Interlinear ever published!! Years ago a Pastor who seriously studied Greek, found I had it and said, "Name your price," that's how highly it was prized (but it was and is way out of print!)

    It's the Englishman's Greek New Testament, was published in 1896 and based on 7 of the best Greek Text Editors. Further, on EVERY page, where there is doubt about a word or words, it gives WHO doubted it at the bottom, what was the alternative text they wrote, along with English translations if necessary, i.e., it's got the lot! What amazes me is that with more Greek manuscripts available today, and many new translations, I've NEVER found my Interlinear out of date or failing to keep up with any of them. I constantly compare to ensure I have the very best and closest English to the original.

    I trusted Jesus in '57 via around 10 other Christians out of a total 55 young men in a Methodist Hostel for students. I soon found out about the Liberals! These were the 'baddies' who didn't believe in Bible miracles etc., etc. The opposite to them were we Evangelicals (does NOT mean the same today) or Fundamentalists (ditto). We constantly checked to see that we were not being led astray as to God's truth. We bought books from just one British publisher who was as serious about the truth as we were - we KNEW we could trust their publications. These early lessons that God ensured that I learnt have stood me in great stead right to this very day (and maybe is why over 120,000 have visited my Inner Room messages and no one to date has picked me up on either doctrine or practice).

    All my life I've been, as I've stated here, a truth-seeker. I HAVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH no matter what the cost! Thus, you clearly show me where I'm wrong and I WILL CHANGE. I'm perfectly aware that this is unusual. Read any Christian forum and what you see is people digging-in rather than changing their beliefs. No way I can be certain, but maybe me being a very, very serious truth-seeker is one reason why my Inner Room messages work so well.

    MAJOR, thank you for your kindnesses! Much appreciated. My eyes are "going" because I have cataracts growing on both. For a long time now my Chronic Fatigue Body of maybe 66 years and at least 20 evident medical problems simply can not be operated on: I have energy reserves maybe less than 5% and so would not survive. Thus I await His promised healing, or else end up blind.

    FOR ALL OF YOU. Finally here, God blessed me out of my socks by giving me a vision of reaching children for Christ, which I started here in Queensland in the late 1960's in my late 20's. I did it under a non-denominational organisation, who I had to fight for a whole year to let me start after-school meetings for 10-12 year olds to present them with the Gospel. It was an amazing success, with many kids becoming Believers who I then discipled weekly for some years. After a time this so got the attention of the organisation that they asked me to head up a Committee, and supplied Staff-workers to foster and grow the work into other schools. Then my health collapsed badly for the first time, I went to bed for 3 years, and "my" work was taken over by others.

    Almost 2 decades later my health had collapsed for the 2nd time, I was in bed another 3 years, in and out of hospital, and this time nearly died twice. Yet suddenly God was giving me this utterly mind-blowing word over and over and over, "You will be the father of a great number of children right around the world!" I though He meant adults, but had no idea whatever what He was talking about! Yet it was already happening! However it was almost another 2 decades further on before I finally heard that the tiny work I started had grown and expanded until it was world-wide, working with children even in Muslim countries, and one of my original staff-workers was the world head of the work! WOW!! So the prophecy He gave me DID mean piles and piles of children in countries around the world - and yes, I AM a very, very, very proud father!!! When our ministry funds come, just ONE of their uses I hope will be to help EXPAND this work even further!

    Okay, I've probably missed saying some things, but time for me to go. I pray God will reveal Himself more and more to each one of you, that you will continue to grow in knowledge and the faith of Jesus, and that you will each become Believers whose lives and words will do the greatest and primary thing we are called to do (where we so often fail): to bring great PRAISE, and GLORY and BLESSING to our Wonderful and Mighty GOD!! That's to be our life focus!

    With the sincerest of love to each of you!!!

    - BM
     
  6. Bondman, my "caution" wasn't directed at you, but in general, as when Christians seek extra-biblical sources to help understand, we end up going to flawed sources that are biased or written to compliment a man-written source in stead of basing their information on the original - which is what we are looking for.

    You already know that, so I wanted to make sure others are aware of that fact too. Otherwise they might buy an interlinear and get all sorts of misinformation.

    Anyway, you and I have been here together a long time and I respect you and love you.
     
  7. BUT......................with all the health problems you have,,,,,,,,,,,YOU ARE STILL HERE!!!!
     
  8. It's appalling that interlinear you copped! Makes me feel sick inside. I can't get near shops. I wonder if someone like yourself could check interlinears out for a decent one (but I know you're busy with family). Wish we could republish mine!!!

    Hmm... I guess your serious warning will suffice (seeing as I brought up the subject). I'll be taking great care about that because of your sad experience. Thank-you!) Most folks just need a decent translation for their Bible - again, as you say, so that they are getting as near as is possible to the original text. As with yourself, that's ALWAYS been my strong desire and goal.

    Thankyou for your love and respect! That means a lot to me!!

    Bless you heaps, dear one!

    - BM
     
  9. Haha, my friend, fair point! - but they reckon ya can't keep a good man down!!! I'm not leaving CFS. Just gotta take much greater care of what/how much I do, seeing my mind seems to be losing its edge a little. Plumb astonishing it's lasted this long... (His work, obviously.)

    Love ya!!

    - BM
     
  10. Bondman,

    I made a very poor or harsh comment that's why I really felt bad after I realized that it was too late to change how I answered. I acted on my immaturity when I replied half past midnight. I also found out that it's quite hard for me to be consistent in walking in love on online forums. Had I been communicating with you in person, I wouldn't have been able to do that.

    You have my sincerest respect and gratitude.

    Gemma
     
    Ginger likes this.
  11. Oh, you can trust me that I well know how much forums can be HARD places to get things right, Gemma, but please relax, because by now God's made me a ready forgiver and to not hold grudges. So please know that everything's fine here. I have some family whose attitude to me is, well, pretty despicable I guess, but I just forgive and love 'em!! - cos He loved me first!! (and middle and last as well I reckon, lol!)

    I much appreciate your expression of respect and gratitude. I'm perfectly aware that you are a good person, seeking to live the Life to the best of your ability. I'm right with you on that!!

    With much love!

    - BM
     
  12. That is why I carry a drivers license with me.

    I can look at the picture and realize who I am. (Scary)

    Then I can see where I live and have someone take me home.

    Getting old is not what we thought it would be is it?????????
     
  13. Hmm, I've felt till this week that I was doin' not to bad in the getting old stakes... Love your sense of humour!

    And I didn't quite correctly read your earlier post where you said something like, "But you're still here!" You're absolutely right: between age 2 and 65 I think it's about 6 times I could have died, should have died, or nearly died, astonishingly 4 of these from quite different problems! Good old Chronic Fatigue at work! In 1987 a Specialist sent me home from hospital to die! (Didn't work obviously!) Then my Dad, Grandfather, and Great-Grandfather all died at 74, so why is this 72 year old, chronically ill bloke for most of his life, still here?? Suggested answer: God's ways are past finding out?!!

    Joy and peace to you, my friend!

    - BM
     
  14. Bondman, I pray you recieve a healing miracle from the Lord. As a person who has recieved healing miracles many times I am unshakenly aware that it is Gods will to heal us. I do not even tolarate a headache these days.As soon as I feel a little bit of pain I start checking up on my life and then corect myself and recieve my healing.
    Satan on the other hand will ensure that you never fulfill you ministry and hinder you, via sickness. Do not let him suceed.
     
  15. Yes, God heals, but sometimes God allows us to suffer the distresses of this World to serve His purpose, as well.

    The Apostles suffered illness, too.
     
  16. Jesus never suffered any sickness when He was on this earth.He suffered alot but never did His sufering take the form of sickness.
    Iam not being insensitive.When you have seen many healings personal and family happen before your eyes, it becomes imposible to beilieve God has any purpose for sickness.The word of God is enough to teach us.We do not give our children cancer or HIV to teach them something or so that we can see how much they will love us even though we gave them sickness.
    I find that the teaching that God keeps people sickness for any purpose, the reason why so many peoples faith has been crippled to be healed. They are thinking that God has a purpose for thier sickness.So they do not dare believe God for healing.
    When the Lord Jesus comes and stands before you, certain things become clear.One of them is the awesomeness of His power to Heal and wilingness to heal. I

    All this is based on my personal experience with Jesus Christ.I do not mean to be insensitive to anyone.
     
  17. With all due respects to you my friend, I have to say that your comment is a little on the nieve side of reality and Scripture truth.
    We know from Scripture that not everyone will be healed because even Paul himself suffered from a condition which he prayed about, and God chose not to heal him. Scripture does teach that God heals - and still heals today - but we also need to understand that Scripture does not teach that God intends Christians to be without sickness - we have to realize that it is often illness that keeps us dependent on God.
    God is sovereign. It is not up to us to demand that God heal; it is up to Him to decide what is in our best interest and to serve His purpose.
    Exodus 4:11 says..........................
    “The LORD said to him, ‘Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?’”

    In 2 Corinthians 12:9, Paul says..................
    “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
    Who are we to say, “God heal me!” if it is not a part of His overall purpose? We also must remember that God is more concerned with our souls than our bodies as it says in Matthew 10:28, “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”

    Romans 8:26 tells us..................
    “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose.” Now does this mean all things except disease, or does it really mean all things? I Peter 4:12-13 tells us, “Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is revealed.”

    We should not to be surprised by suffering. We are actually supposed to rejoice that we are allowed to suffer so that God will be glorified in our dependence on Him.
     
  18. I never said Jesus suffered human illnesses - I said the Apostles did.

    Nor did I suggest you are being "insensitive" I am merely pointing out what the Scriptures clearly state, We cannot tell who is saved/ right with God by mere appearances. Jesus even pointed out in John chapter 9 that God uses all things to work toward His good and perfect will.

    "His disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? 'Neither this man nor his parents sinned,' said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life."

    In this case Jesus, healed to demonstrate who he is, but the only reason the man was blind - throughout his entire life - was for that particular moment. So, if someone is not healed instantly, it does not mean they are at fault.

    I thank God for the good and the bad, because often we are blessed thru our trials more than our "good fortune." If I had not suffered some of the terrible events I have experienced I would not be where I am today in my relationship with Christ.

    John 9:2-3

    May I ask what you will do if one day God allows you to become ill - and remain ill? Just because you can't see what God is doing, doesn't mean He isn't at work!

    Are you only going to praise Him for the blessing and turn from Him if he doesn't give you what you want and have come to expect??????

    Well, I am living proof you are wrong. I have prayed for healing for myself and for my daughter and most recently, my mother. We experienced miraculous healings in all three cases, yet if God chooses to allow me to suffer terminal cancer one day, my pray will be, as always, "if it be your will"

    Your will, not mine....

    Ginger
     
  19. I prayed for healing for us both for many years. He then answered and told me He'd heard my prayers, to stop praying, and to just give Him thanksgiving. I've done that daily ever since. So I believe we ARE healed, by faith, according to Hebrews 11:1. Waiting on the manifestation of this (and for our ministry funds to be received) - and truly believe these can't be too far off now!! Healing me will be a MAJOR miracle from which He will get much Glory that He is due for.

    More healings take place on the Mission Field than in Western countries. To me it's not at all hard to see why!

    Bless all you guys for the posts above. Maybe time to start a new thread tho.

    - BM

    EDIT: I just started one...
     
  20. Acording to the scripture 1 peter 4:12-13 we are to participate in the sufferings of Christ.
    As I did a study of how Christ suffered, I found out He suffered alot.
    However I could not find one refrence that he suffered from any sickness.

    I do depend on God, for healing. If God is glorified with our sickneses then I have been disobedient to Him by being healed and praying for many to be healed.

    Jesus went to a certain place and could not do many miracles because of their unbelief.It was not because God wanted the people to depend on Him in sickness and be therefore glorified.Jesus could not heal them because they were full of unbelief.I sometimes think most of the time we want to wash away our responsibility of having faith in Jesus, so we say that God has some purpose in our sickness.

    Satan is the one that sent his mesenger to Paul. Paul sought God three times to be free from it. However because of the revelation God gave Paul lest he be in pride God increased His grace on Paul, that in his weakness he might be strong.
    To qualify for this thorn in the flesh, you have to have enough revelation(not head knowledge) to write a third of the new testament. I doubt you or me or anybody is at that level.

    However also I dont think the thorn in the flesh was sickness. It was a demonic spirit that caused people to arise against Paul and hindered him and was an iritation to him.

    Jesus whenever He healed somebody, He told them that it was their faith that made the whole, not His power.
    I have been healed from so many things, that it is imposible for me to stay sick for Long.When I do get sick the Lord reveals why, and I get straightened up and continue my walk in Him.(Most of the time unforgiveness)

    I do know that we are to take part in the suffering of The Lord Jesus Christ. However the Lord Jesus suffered many things but not sickness.Instead it is written he took away our sickneses.

    I have suffered sickness all my early life. I know what it is to be sick and not be able to do anything like other children.However when I came to realise that the Lord heals all who believe that he will heal them I was healed from everyone of them.

    I might be naive, but I and my family have been healed by the Lord Jesus from all sorts of sickneses. We rely on God to heal us.We glorify Jesus through our healings.

    We all have a responsibility to trust God to heal us, that he might be glorified in our healing not sickness.

    As you can see that the reason I am strong on healing is because I have experienced it soo many times. Either I am decieved and satan healed me or Jesus does heal when you touch the hem of His garment by faith.
    You choose and decide for yourself, if it was Jesus who healed me thus robing me of an aportunity to sufer for Him or it was satan.

    Please do not be ofended. I was in pain for one year in my leg because I got in the trap of thinking that God had some purpose and was teaching me patience and was being glorified in my sickness.However when i realised that I was wrong and Jesus never suffered sickness in this world, I prayed and recovered imedialty.One year of pain because of wrong believing.

    I personally think we want to do away with out responsibility of walking with God in faith and love, so we explain away certain things in the bible.

    Am I wrong? Should I seek those sickneses back? Should I stop believing God to heal me next time I get sick?
     

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