Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by thesaintman, Oct 27, 2014.
I assume that you are talking about making sense out of different interpretations of a verse.
Use a literal translation and/or concordance to get the intended meaning.
Comparing the problematic verse to other comparable verses can also help.
Avoid Bible versions created by people with an agenda.
We agree on something Glo!
To answer the opening post: go back to the original language and closest 'translation'. Use the context to see if said 'translations' align with the full breadth of verse, chapter, book, Bible, God. I think there is a word for that process....?
I stick with the KJV for the meat in English and glean through 'other translations' that may better describe the intent of the verse using the original language.
My answer is .With extreme care.
The prevailing and thus ruling idea that seems to be in the minds of many in the church is that today we" have a better understanding" and /or that if you can understand Greek or /and Hebrew you will understand the scriptures.
This clearly is not true as seen by the lives of Saul of Tarsus and those of the High priest clique who opposed the Lord .
What also seems not to have crossed the minds of some that there corrupt texts of Greek as there ones that are not .
But what says the scriptures? "lean not upon your own understanding but trust in the Lord"
To many are leaning more upon their understanding of Greek and Hebrew than they upon Him who was promised to "lead us into all truth"
In many modern versions they all seem to say that due to their "better understanding " a new version is needed of scripture.
But does not God know His own mind? Does he need a myriad of versions to express his thought? I don't believe so.
Indeed if faith in God comes not just by hearing but by understanding the Word of God. How is it then that despite our better understanding .Not only is faith NOT growing in the church but the church is LESS Holy than it was at the reformation who did so much more than we with according to some so much less or little understanding . In fact we are in the throes of a reverse reformation .and thus going backwards.
We have false apostles and self proclaimed prophets falling out of the woodwork and making ",merchandise of Gods people"
Yet we have a myriad of versions all purporting to give a better understanding of Gods Word.
Many even with their better understanding of Hebrew and Greek cant even get the first verse translated right .
Having it as "In the beginning God created the heavenS and the earth .
When it should be "in the beginning God created the heaveN and the earth .
But there are quite a few good books that can be found in any good Bible book shop that covers and explains the merits or demerits of versions .Well worth reading one or two of them and prayerfully judge for yourself .
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: (John 16:13).
I have a bible program I use that has multiple translations and I also use a few commentary's. Above them, I rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me.
Just a question.
if faced with the same verse but different versions say things differently or very differently .
By what criteria do you choose one over the other ?
and why ?
and why are some so very different ?
Example : The Students bible . " In the beginning God created the sky and the earth"
Then I would look at the original language and study what the words mean
We need to read/study the word and seek truth.
Here are sites that will give you greek and hebrew... they are quick and available
True understanding come from revelation and revelation comes from God.
But here is my contention if you will. Not for contentions sake ,but for the truths sake.
If you have to look at the original language and need to study what the word means. By what criteria did THEY come to the conclusion they did which is so very different from another 'translator' who we must assume did the same thing.
The example I gave with the "student bible" rendered "In the beginning God created the sky and the earth " Is manifestly and should be self evidently wrong .
But if you have gen 2:1 as heavenS and gen 1:1 as heavenS then that would be or could be a reasonable rendition.
But Gen 1:1 should be HEAVEN not heavens . and only two that I am aware of have it so rendered.
Now you know why there are 41,000 Christian denominations... Go to the originals and then look up the word presented. ALL translations have error - hence "lost in translation" - so don't sweat it. God will still help you to understand.
The way bibles are translated is different with each one. Some bibles are Word for Word translations. These include KJV, NASB, ESV etc. Then you have Meaning for Meaning Versions or Thought for Thought Versions. These would include bibles like the NIV and CEV. Then you have Paraphrased Bible Versions. The Living Bible and The Message are members of this style.
Just remember when trying to translate another language to lets say English, not everything is going to translate perfectly. One study I read, and I believe a professor at my college mentioned this as well, is that of all the Main Stream Bibles the translations are 98% spot on with each other. I believe this is taking into consideration the Textus Receptus and Alexandrian Codices. I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people on here when it comes to the history of the Bible and can explain this stuff a lot better than I can. I would put your faith in the Holy Spirit and ask Him for guidance when you need to understand something. I would ask questions like you are doing and with His help you will find the answers you are looking for.
can understand why we have various denominations .
Ranging from a denomination more intent on building a name for itself and thinking that the light it received like Peter was all the light and when the Lord gave more refused . Luther Calvin Baptist Quaker Methodist Evangelical Pentecostal.
I would very much doubt your 41,000 denominations .Though they may be 'independent 'churches which is not the same thing .
I do not accept that all translations have error ,Though I will accept that a lot do.
From over 30 years of experience I have not found the KJV wanting at all . Yet others I have had or seen are always weaker never as strong or indeed stronger.
Faith comes by not only hearing but also by understanding the Word of God.
I would suggest that your suggestion is misplaced given the state of the church and the world that reflects it .
It seems more to me that every one has their own private interpretation rather than all coming to a unity of the faith .
By unity of THE faith ,I do not mean a unity that denies the truth .But a unity of the same understanding of scripture . That is not of my own interpretation or anothers .But as is according to the mind of Him who inspired them to so write it .
If you don't believe the number of denoms, that's fine, though it still true. The KJV has it's errors too... right in the very first verse. BTW for the most part I use the KJV, I just don't let it be a god or even rank as inspired over the truth of the originals.
I have read a couple of good books on the various translations and versions ( have forgotten the titles:sorry) that would say otherwise as to them all being pretty much the same as well as some using corrupted texts .
When I was converted a dear sister gave me the NIV . After a year I was reading the KJV .The reasons why I perhaps could not have articulated .
I once talked to a Moslem who after a bout an hours conversation said only the Koran in Arabic is the original or true word of God.
"if you don t believe the number of demons"(?) I don't kn ow what you are referring to.
The only two arguments I ever hear against against the KJV is the language . Which is a spurious argument and really no argument at all and that according to some there are some verses not "in the original texts" yet they cannot nor have I ever heard of any how those verses contradict the rest of scripture .
The very first verse. Gen 1:1?
Actually apart from one other all modern versions have it HeavenS .Which can be demonstrated is a wrong translation .When it should be HEAVEN .
"In the beginning God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH "
What follows shows it was not heaven that was in darkness but the EARTH .
"and the EARTH was without form and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep "
From verse two onwards the scriptures are only speaking about the EARTH . Not that HEAVEN that was created in the beginning .
Then when you get later down where it talks about the water above and below the firmament the firmament " was called heaven "
Clearly that is NOT the Heaven of verse 1.
The only other heaven mentioned indirectly was also of the earth from verse two when "he made the stars also " etc.
Thus the HEAVEN of chapter 1 is where Gods throne is and nothing to do with the EARTH .
For that heaven "needs no sun or moon for God is the light thereof "
Tell me is God a Greek? Or a Hebrew or English? or Arabic . Perhaps he might be Chinese?
I once had a conversation with a Moslem who had a similar idea to you .That the real word of God is only the one in the original language In His case he thought the Koran in Arabic was the true one.
I asked him if he had been lying to me .He said no . I said have you not been talking to me in English? and is not the book in his hand with an Arabic on one page and the opposite page in English. I said is that lying to?
Then I said then all these languages are of men .
It si written that "God humbles himself to speak to men" if they are all mens languages .Then God must have as it were his own language .
For what language did He speak when he said "let there be light"?
Then I say the message of God "that Word "that goeth forth out of my mouth" does not change.It just needs to be accurately translated.
I can think of 5 good reasons at least, why you can have bad translations and none of them has to do with not being able to translate the message and its meaning from one language to another .
Therefore I do not accept your argument and those of others who say it cannot be accurately translated.
.For God is well able to give the understanding and the wisdom to do so if men are willing to be led by Him.
He said denoms not demons. Denoms = Denominations. I think you have an agenda here Gerald and that is to get us to argue about how the KJV is better than the other translations. This has been beaten to death and it is really old.
Actually apart from one other all modern versions have it HeavenS .Which can be demonstrated is a wrong translation .When it should be HEAVEN .
Actually the Hebrew word is e·shmim which is plural Heavens
peter = petros = peter small stone or pebble in greek <<<<<< that was an attempt a humor
Yea... what LanceA said...
Yes thank you I caught up about 5 minutes ago .lol
Everyone here has an agenda . Of one sort or another . Mine I declared in my profile.
I would even argue God has an agenda as well ,and so has the devil.
I am not here to reduce everything down to my personal opinion or even preference .
I can produce arguments as have others far better qualified in matters of Greek or Hebrew than I .On the matter .Why I am persuaded that it is .
What I don't understand is why others think others are better and on what grounds they do so . From what I have observed is that many have no confidence in any so they have them all or a lot .
and they have been LED to believe that if they then but understand the Greek and Hebrew then they will truly understand the Scriptures.
I have simply pointed out that intellectually that may well be logical or satisfying .Untill you realise that Saul of Tarsus spoke Hebrew as his mother tounge sat under the greatest theologian of his day and had the 'original texts' more than any today can say . Yet so did NOT understand the scriptures he persecuted the church agreed with Stephens death and "though it was God will"!
Shall I mention the high priest and all who followed him? Did he not know Hebrew? was it not also his other tounge ? How is it then he and all of like mind as he "knew that Jesus was a sinner"! (the only man who was not) opposed him every step of the way and even when he under oath declared Himself to be the Son of God condemned him a s a blasphemer and handed him over to the gentiles to be put to death.
and so did not understand the scriptures they thought they did Gods will!
If then the Hebrew then so the Greek and more so .
I am not saying ;for the record .don't learn Hebrew or Greek if you can . But don't lean so much on your understanding of the same that you do not lean on the Lord more .
I do not go for or accept blind faith . Either in those who say they understand Greek or Hebrew or any man for that matter. For faith is not blind at all .
For what man with a friend desiring to cross a busy main road and their friend says its safe to cross will not first check to see if they are right before they do so?
and what driver with their husband and wife desiring to enter the busy main road from a side road and their passenger says its ok to go out .Does not do so without first checking to see if their right first? Why? Because no man is infallible; despite some foolish people claiming that they are .
I will listen to any man until I see there is no understanding in them and who will not listen to me as much as they want me to listen to them.
I have very good reasons WHY I think the KJV is a better than all . Not because I have been taught or told that it is .But from Experience in nits use and never found wanting . From Gods blessing and conformation upon it in times long past and up today .
But now also by reading and studying it myself and of others who are better qualified to go into all the "tittles" Of Hebrew that others have omitted and some have added to the scriptures elsewhere .
Their arguments I have followed as also those who oppose the use of the KJV in all but name . Why that should be is in one sense a mystery .
For the ONLY one that is cast aside in a lot of pulpits today the only one despised and rejected the only one dismissed is the KJV while all the others who some have acknowledged are not accurate or reliable translations they will and have accepted and do.
That in itself is instructive .
For it would seem that even as it is becoming offensive to say Jesus is the only way to God .Any who have the temerity to say the KJV is the best have an 'agenda' or are dismissed as fools .I on one occasion was called a heretic!
Each man must be fully persuaded in his own mind before God . I cant tell any man what to do .But I would advise anyone to not take the claims of a "better understanding" at face value .
Is to provoke thought at the very least .
and propagate that which is true .
That the Gospel is greater than we think and God is More Holy than we as yet imagine .
Well I won't go into a long drawn out comment. There are many who have studied and say quite the opposite of what you have said. For me, I don't speak in old English, therefore don't want to read in it. I prefer the Nasb and ESV.