How Do I Break The Spell She's Under?

Discussion in 'Marriage and Relationships' started by Lavell, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. I recently met a beautiful christian woman online in a popular relationship forum about 3 months ago. I am from America, she is from Australia. I am 48 she is 47. I have not been in a relationship in 12 years, she is 6 months out of a 15 year relationship with a man that she lived with, who left her for another woman.

    We exchanged emails and hit it off. We pray together and exchange scriptures with each other and it's amazing how much we have in common. We also have wonderful fellowship on Skype's video chat. I am planning to fly to Australia to meet her in April.

    The first month I met her, I asked her if it would be okay if I joined in a conversation on a thread she started, she told me that it was fine as long as I did not make it obvious that we were in a relationship, because there was a certain man that followed her threads who many people on this forum consider a rock star when it comes to helping people who have recently been separated or divorced.

    He supposedly specializes in helping people heal after a break up. He is very well known on the forum and treated with an almost cult-like adoration on the site.

    She said that she communicates with him in private messages and that he was extremely important to her healing. She said that although he is not a christian, he helps everyone on the forum. She said he is a married man and that he is very protective of the people that he has taken under his wing to help them heal.

    I thought this was kind of odd, and it disturbed me so much in my spirit about how protective she was of his feelings, that I decided not to post on her thread at all. From time to time, she would mention about how wise he was and how happy she was that I did not have a problem with her communicating with him in private. She said he is an older gentleman in his 60's and he helps everybody the same way he helps her.

    At one point when she started talking about how important his counsel was, I told her I was concerned about how much she relied on this man for her healing. I reminded her that since he is not a Christian he could only share with her the wisdom of this world. I told her there is a big difference in receiving counsel from the world and christian counseling.

    I need to mention that what disturbed me the most about this guy was the fact that she had told her entire family about me and her closet friends, but she seemed almost terrified to say anything to this man about us. She seemed to go to great lengths to make sure he was not aware that she was in a relationship with me.

    I reminded her to be careful about receiving counsel from this man because no matter how wise he sounds, he is just a man and he is not Christ, and that he can not do for her what Jesus could do for her. I told her we have to be careful not to make idols out of men and that it's very dangerous for Christians to elevate people to an almost God like status for their healing. She became very quiet and agreed with me.

    Eventually this man announced that he was leaving the forum for a couple of months because he was having problems with his own marriage. I noticed right after he left, our relationship really took off and we started to grow even closer. We even started our own thread inviting others to follow us on journey until we meet each other in person, it's now one of the most popular threads on the site, with everyone cheering us on.

    About a month ago, this man was on my heart again and something told me that when he returned to the forum, our relationship would change. I told her about my concerns and that's when I discovered that although he was no longer on the forum, she was still communicating with him by email. She became very irritated and defensive and told me I was being silly because this guy helps everybody on the forum the same way and that he was old enough to be her father.

    Fast forward to 3 days ago...
    The guy finally returned 3 days ago, and just like clockwork, on the very same day, her entire personality changed. She sent me a long email and said she was still not healed and thought it be best if we went our separate ways, her words were almost cruel and cold, it was like she became a whole different person. She changed her relationship status from being in a relationship to "other" and has not written on our thread since the day this guy came back.

    I have prayed about this woman and believe there is a reason that God allowed our paths to cross. We were planning to work on some projects that would give glory to God and lead others to Christ. The fruit that we produce when we work together causes joy and happiness in others and gives us an opportunity to witness for Christ, she even mentioned to me about a week ago before this guy returned that since we are so good together she was certain the enemy was going to try and break us apart.

    I sent her an email and told her that I respected her decision, but I was shocked that she changed so suddenly. I also reminded her about what she said a week ago about the enemy trying to tear us apart. I never mentioned anything to her about this man returning. She seemed to come to her senses and told me she was sorry and said that I was right. We jumped on Skype and I prayed over her and read scriptures to her all night until she went to sleep.

    It's almost like we were starting our relationship all over again from day one. She still hasn't changed her relationship status to show she is in a relationship again and she still hasn't written on our thread, but she seems to want to continue our relationship and she still wants me to come visit her in Australia.

    Just as I predicted, everything changed in our relationship the exact same day this guy reappeared on the forum, almost the very hour he came back. I'm not sure what it is about this guy, but he gives me the creeps. Besides the fact that he is not a Christian, I just think there is something very inappropriate for a married man to counsel single women in private. I could be wrong, but I'm an old school, old fashion kind of guy.

    There is something about this guy that gives me no peace in my spirit. It's almost like our relationship is now on his timetable and I feel like she will not move forward with me or make any further decisions about our relationship until she gets his okay. There is something about the emotional bond she has with this man that disturbs me to my core.

    I'm not picking up anything romantic between them (although I could be wrong), but there is definitely something bizarre about her dependence on him and the way she defends him and protects him.

    This whole situation has me wondering if it is even worth pursuing this woman, since she seems like she is almost under a spell with this guy, or if I should find some way to fight for her. If I say anything to her about this guy, she gets angry and defensive. I wanted to confront him by email and tell him to back off, but with his power and influence I will probably only succeed in getting myself banned from the site.

    I am at a complete loss on how to move forward with this, since this guy now seems to be calling the shots in our relationship and his return has thrown 3 months of bonding between her and I out the window. I'm not sure if I have the strength or the will to start all over again. His influence on her is very evident and I'm not sure if I want to waste time and energy fighting for someone who can be so easily influenced like this.

    This woman and I are great together, she can finish my sentences, we have amazing chemistry and we've seen so many signs that tell us our meeting was no coincidence. But I don't have the first clue how to go about breaking the influence this man has over her. I know how to pray against it, but I don't know if I should be doing more.

    Any thoughts or feedback would be greatly appreciated
  2. G'day Lavell, Sorry to read you are having such troubles. My gut feeling is that you should leave well enough alone. You could come up here to Australia, you might even have a wonderful time with her here. As soon as you return home, every thing that you have built could/will crumble. 6 months is is not very long when you have been in a relationship with someone for 15 years! Besides if and when this person finally does heal enough to make a new life for herself, the choices she makes now, in the midst of hurt and uncertain feelings will in all likelihood not be what she really wants.
    You have had 12 years to settle emotionally, that is 24x as long as she has had.

    My Mo was different from yours, after my ex took off with some druggie guy she worked with, I met a lady who really was (now get this...) wanting to show her ex that she could get on fine without him. I wasn't interested in being a trophy, or being used in any way whatsoever so she was dumped so fast I'm sure it made her head spin. Some other guy I knew, did marry a divorcee that also wanted to show her ex that she could get a man anytime she wanted but he wouldn't listen..... That marriage lasted about 5 or 6 months.
    So, to get back to your situation, my advice would be 1. remove her email address from your email program.
    2. Go in search on feminine Christian company that is more local to your home.
    There must be Church groups in or near your area that have plenty of worthwhile ladies that are both Christian and worth the second look.
    Lavell likes this.
  3. Hey Calvin! Thanks for the response!

    I don't have a problem breaking it off with her, but I don't really plan to go looking for her replacement.
    The strange thing about all this is that I wasn't looking for a relationship and neither was she.
    We've always felt like it was God that brought us together, so I don't think it's a rebound relationship.

    There have been multiple instances when we both had that same gut feeling and when we've tried walking away from each other in the past, we always seem to find ourselves drawn back to each other.

    I can certainly see the wisdom in your words, and there is very strong possibility that it could play out just like you said,
    I just need to make 100% sure it's the right thing to do and I don't end up missing out on God's plan for me.

    I've been waiting a very long time and I just want to be sure that if do walk away it's for the right reasons.
    There is also a very strong possibility that I could end up relocating to Australia for business purposes.

    I have peace about her, the only thing I don't have any peace about is this online guru who seems to
    have her under some sort of hypnotic trance. If I can't find a way to break it or if I feel like God wants
    me to walk away, I have no problem with that.

    Right now I'm sort of on the fence and I need feedback like yours to know what to pray about.

    Thanks again!
  4. Hi Lavell

    My sympathies with your predicament. Calvin the same! sorry your ex left :(.

    Lavell I think you just need to step back and look at the facts.

    1) She does like you. She has, like you, put time and effort into communication.
    2) This guy, though carnal, has helped her.

    I don't think there is any relationship feelings between them, just an extreme friendship. I suspect the guy is giving her advice to spend alone time and heal. That is not such bad advice for now either. She has a special 'friend' bond with him!! as he was there for her when the marriage ended. Don't attack him too much!

    I know a woman that was going through hard times in her marriage and started getting counselling from an atheist councillor. Sure it can be the devil trying to cease Christian woman in a vulnerable state, but God is also there to keep them. I would explain to her that he was not Christian and the elders at my church would give better council. It took her a while but eventually she gave my elders a chance. She never went back to that guy. I would say that my church elders are now even closer friends :). It seems woman really do need that kind of help when they go through hard times. Sure men do too, but from my limited experience, woman more.

    Her councillor is causing her head and heart to clash. You need to gently sway her thinking. All I can think of is encouraging her to go back to / find a good church or 'outdoing' her councillor. As a Christian your council can out-perform his. Don't hammer him or mock him. Praise him for how much he has helped her and let her know you are grateful to him for his unselfish help. Unselfish, such a Christian trait.....;)
    Lavell likes this.

  5. Thanks for the response King J!

    Wise words indeed! Once I realized how defensive she became about him I stopped bringing him up. I never sensed any romantic feelings either. I just thought her over protective behavior of this guy in the beginning was a little over the top. She does have a regular church she attends, but she hasn't tried to get any christian counseling.

    His counsel definitely pulls her away from God. It's a self-centered type of help that causes her to focus on herself. She goes from being a sweet christian woman into this cold, new modern woman whose only concern is about her own needs. It just really bothers me that she never talks about important God is to her healing only how important this guy is to her healing. She's always talking about how wise and wonderful he is and it just started to give me a real creepy feeling to see a christian woman display such cult-like worship over a man on a forum.

    She was actually doing very well when he was off the forum, she was making amazing progress and even commented on how she couldn't believe how fast she was healing. Then the same day this guy shows up she suddenly gets this epiphany that she isn't as far along on her healing as she thought.

    I am 9000 miles away from her and I hadn't plan to see her until April, so why she suddenly felt the need to pull away from me and change her relationship status left me scratching my head. I guess the real problem I have with this guy is that if she needs him more than she needs God to tell her when she's ready for a relationship, she could miss out on what God may have for her and just end up in the same kind of relationship she just got out of where she lived with a man for 15 years.

    Maybe I'm not seeing the big picture of what he's doing for her, I just think it's odd for a Christian's entire personality to change like that after talking with this guy. The email she sent me was not a simple good-bye, it was pretty insulting and rude. If that's the effect he has on her and if that's what people call helping somebody, I'll pass.
  6. That e-mail does put a spanner in the works and the distance just doesn't help. Maybe a short friendly reply to end things on good terms from your side. There is a chance that when she gathers herself, she contact you again. End things, but don't lose contact unless you move on.

    Sorry man, it sux, praying for you!
    Lavell likes this.
  7. Already replied to her goodbye email and told her I respected her decision. I was prepared to move on and she rings me up on Skype and wants me to spend the entire night praying for her and reading her scriptures, which I did.

    She apparently wants the relationship to continue and she still wants me to come to Australia.
    Right now I'm just backing away and giving her space to sort out her thoughts and make sure
    this is something she really wants to do.

    Thanks for the prayers! much appreciated! (y)
  8. Well thats not that bad then. She just needs to gather herself. You doing everything right, you don't need counsel :). You need to get her on here ;)!
    Lavell likes this.
  9. Yeah that's the thing King J...
    I'm praying everyday and receiving my marching orders from the big guy upstairs, so I'm covered.
    Just needed some feedback from other members of the body of Christ to confirm what I'm feeling in my spirit.

    I'll see if I can try to get her to come on. I haven't shared anything on the board that I haven't told her already.
    When she's around me and other Christians she's fine. She only seems to withdraw and act weird after she's been exchanging private messages with this guy.

    I can tell she likes me and wants to meet me, the feeling is mutual.
    Just trying to find a way to gently nudge her into relying more on God.
    KingJ likes this.
  10. small update...

    After re-reading my original post, I felt that it was necessary to comeback and ask any of you who were offended by comments regarding secular counseling to please forgive me. I want to publicly state for the record that in no way do I believe that all mental health professionals who are not Christians are bad for believers.

    I think it is wonderful that anyone would choose a career centered around helping people.

    The gentleman I spoke of in my original post is not a licensed therapist or counselor. He's just a guy on a forum with the ability to complete coherent sentences. As a result of his helping her, I have watched a beautiful, sweet christian woman become cold, distant and more self-centered.

    She seems to be drifting further and further away from relying on Christ, to being completely dependent on the words of an online stranger. She vehemently defends and protects him, and she has made it crystal clear that he and he alone will decide when she is healed and ready to move on with her life.

    Please forgive me if I find that type of worship over a man a little over the top, and a tad bit odd.

    Anyways, I am taking the advice of King J, I don't even talk about this guy with her. I have gone out of my way to be kind and gentle, and reading scriptures and praying with her whenever she allows me to.

    The potential romance has been put on the back burner...

    Right now I'm just trying to be her friend and let her know that I am here for her if she needs me.

    Please keep us both in your prayers.

    Take Care and God Bless :)
  11. Its annoying when that happens. But think about it. It has to be God helping you! If the devil had his way, she would remain very enticing to you! The worms are showing early, that is good.
    Lavell likes this.

  12. Yes, it's very annoying King J...

    You are absolutely right! This is definitely a GOD thing!

    I can certainly sense his presence in the middle of all this...

    She has a beautiful sweet spirit, just a little naive...

    Praying that God will somehow use me to help gently nudge her back to him.

    Thanks again for everything, your advice is working great! (y)
  13. You know what I would do if I could remain calm and collected. I would not go to australia and I would give her and myself more time to see where its all going. I would sit back ( hard to do) and watch and learn.

    Once I was sure and I mean really sure that this was a good deal I would go hammer and tongs to get closer to her. But if I had any doubts I would hang back and observe ( hard to do ) untill I was sure about one way or another.

    Good luck with whatever you decide or do or dont do.

    Lavell likes this.
  14. Thanks for the reply,

    There's a lot of wisdom in your words..

    as a matter of fact...

    I've told her that exact same thing, almost word for word on multiple occasions.

    I've waited 12 years, it's certainly not going to hurt me to sit back and wait a little longer
    to see where this is all going before I commit to travel halfway across the world.

    Thank again! (y)
  15. Sorry to read that you are having such troubles, Lavell. I think you should leave well enough alone. Six months isn't very long enough when you've been in a relationship with someone for fifteen long years. Like how to attract men. I don't think there is any relationship feelings between them, just an extreme friendship. Don't attack him too much!
  16. Thanks for the reply,

    Sorry, I should have updated this thread weeks ago...

    I appreciate the feedback, but I think it's important to point out that all I was trying to do was meet her in person, and we would meet 9 months after her breakup. It was her idea to enter into an exclusive relationship with me, she approached me first, whatever we had, she initiated, not me. I tried several times to back away from her and just be friends, entering into a long distance relationship was originally her idea, not mine.

    I didn't even know this guy existed until she mentioned that I needed to be careful about what I say on her thread in the forum. She said there was a man she talks to in private, that is very protective of her healing.

    She made it clear that she did not want him to know that she was in a relationship.

    I never even mentioned his name, but she was the one who kept bringing him up, and after about the fourth time when she mentioned about how wise he was and how important he was to her healing, I finally had to say something.

    She eventually stopped talking about God and all she would talk about is how important this guy was to her. I simply warned her to be careful who she receives counsel from because her entire life seemed to be more focused on doing whatever this guy told her and she really didn't want to hear what the word of God said anymore.

    If he was a counselor or a licensed therapist I could understand, but his own wife left him because she said he cared more about the people on the forum than he does about his own marriage, and his wife was also upset about how he keeps getting so personally involved with women who have been recently divorced or separated on the website.

    These are his own words.

    I don't think there is anything wrong with being friends with someone or getting advice from them in a forum, but when a married man in a forum becomes a self-appointed healer with no credentials and starts communicating in private with single women by calling them on the phone in their homes, and even sacrificing his own marriage to do it, IMHO there is something very creepy and inappropriate about that to me. I could be wrong, but I guess I'm just old fashioned.

    If he can't even keep his own relationship together, how can he possibly help someone else? I never understood her attachment to him, or why she was so adamant about receiving relationship advice from him, because to me it seemed like the blind leading the blind. Again, she is the one who kept talking about him, not the other way around.

    He is extremely arrogant, uses lots of profanity and makes many vulgar references to sex on the board. He left the forum for about 3 months to try and save his marriage (which is failing, they are currently separated), and as soon as he returned, she pulled away from me, stop interacting with me on the board and became cold and distant.

    Her devotion and dedication to him is unmistakable, he contacts her in her home, away from the forum and she can't seem to function without his input in her life. Her whole world seems to center around pleasing him and keeping him happy. I'm sorry, but that's just too weird to me.

    I could be wrong, but I just think that if you buy a Ford and it breaks down, you don't take it to a Toyota dealer to get it fixed. She has placed all her faith in the hands on this one man for her healing, excuse me if I find that kind of behavior in anybody, christian or non-christian, a tad bit odd.

    Her entire personality changes when he is around, she said he is teaching her to live for herself, so she has started going out more to nightclubs and spending less time at church. She's becoming so much like him she even started using profanity and making vulgar references to sex in the forum, just like him.

    I stopped talking about him completely because she kept getting defensive about him. I took the advice from this board and backed away from going to meet her and I decided to just try to and be her friend. She eventually stopped returning my emails, and after about 7 days of not hearing anything from her, I decided to leave her alone.

    I haven't heard anything from her in almost a month.

    I don't think her healer feels like she needs to meet anyone or have another man in her life except for him. Since she pushes me away whenever he's around, and since she started to drift further away from God, and follow a man instead of Christ, I realized their extreme friendship was just too bizarre for me, and I decided weeks ago...

    not only will I leave well enough alone...
    I left her alone completely.
  17. I think you're saving yourself a lot of grief, Lavell. I'm sorry things didn't work out as you had hoped, but it is better for things to not work out at this stage than later on when you have more invested. I feel sorry for the lady, as well, because I think her "healer" is using her. I don't know what his ultimate intentions are, beyond building his own ego - hopefully no more than that, but he is taking advantage of her vulnerability.
    Lavell likes this.
  18. Thanks for the reply Rumely,

    I'm sorry things didn't work out too. She's really a very beautiful person, both inside and out. I can't even begin to tell you how painful it has been to watch this sweet, vulnerable christian girl, transform into a selfish, rebellious nightclub patron, who cusses and openly talks with male strangers about bedroom topics that would make a sailor blush.

    I think you hit the nail on the head about his ego. This is definitely a power trip thing for him. I honestly don't think there is anything romantically going on between the two of them...

    although I could be wrong, she is extremely attractive and this has all the ingredients of an emotional affair...

    But I think it has more to do with this guy wanting to stroke his own ego, and take pride in the fact that he is able to convert someone to his way of thinking, and get them to follow his ME, MYSELF and I philosophy.

    My mother and two adult sisters have been wonderful in helping me to get past this, and they have all told me the same thing you did, it's better that I find out now, instead of investing more time and finding out later.

    By the grace of God, I've kept myself pure, and I've been holding out for the right one for 12 years, and there was a brief moment when I thought she could have been the one, it hurt very badly when I realized she wasn't.

    and this too shall pass...

    I'm sure God has someone out there for me, and I know I will meet her when the time is right.

    All I can do now is move on and pray for her. I appreciate all of the wisdom and feedback on this board, it's been extremely helpful to have a place like this to come to and confirm what I knew God was telling me all along.

    Thanks again and God bless :)
  19. Hey friend. I urge you to keep your faith in jesus strong and pull her away from this man who is obviously not a man of god and furthermore probably a man who is dark sided. Yours is not the first case of this I have seen and there is actually some literature on this subject that you should google and then read more about. Best of luck:)
  20. Thank you again for your response...

    Unfortunately at this point, I don't see how even our friendship can be restored.
    I was told by the singles pastor of my church that I needed to severe all ties with her.
    I was told that I needed to stop communicating with her, delete everything I had written
    to her in that public forum, and to stay away from that relationship website for good.

    After not hearing anything from her for almost 7 days, that's exactly what I did.
    I'm sure once she saw that I had deleted everything, she knew I had decided to move on.

    I cheated once about 3 weeks ago, and decided to peek at her thread out of curiosity...

    My singles pastor was right...I should have stayed away...

    When I got there I saw where others members were asking her what happened with us.
    Her responses seem to indicate that she doesn't know why I left and that I just abandoned her.
    Members who were once my friends, have now begun to sympathize with her, and now I am the bad guy.

    Her healer shadows all of her comments and literally responds seconds after her and tells those who inquire
    about me, that I was not the right person for her, and then he goes on to call me a few derogatory names.
    I got angry at first, but then my heart sank , so I just clicked away and I haven't been back there since.

    It did hurt to just leave her because I felt like there was never any real closure.
    I have wanted to write her several times to offer an explanation, but I was told not to.
    As each day goes by, I think the no contact rule is for the best.

    I'm sure she probably hates me for leaving her like I did, but I just got tired of being ignored
    and pushed away whenever this guy came around the forum.

    Right now she seems to be more concerned with going out to clubs every weekend and living for herself.

    I can't pull her away from him because she made it pretty clear to me...
    He is the most important person in her life, and she needs him to be healed...

    I can't do anything now except pray for her. It will take an act of God to come between her and Healer.

    I tried to help her but I failed, her Healer owns her, and there is nothing I can do about it.
    In the meantime, I still think of her everyday and my heart still aches for her...
    but the pain gets less as each day goes by...

    Thank you again for your concern,
    Take care and God bless :)

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