Discussion in 'New Members Welcome' started by faith2findhim, May 15, 2015.

  1. I love C.S. Lewis, I think he's probably one of the most successful apologists in history aside from the founders of Christianity, IMHO it's because he knew how to tell stories that relate to people.
    But today in this new era of atheism and evilution (I know some Christians who believe in it and I won't judge you negatively if you do), it seems like a lot of people care less about experiences, and more about "fact". Yet they reject the Bible is His word.
    What can be done? How do you talk to these 'new atheists'
    I hope to learn something about that. There are lots of atheists in my life I want to reach with rational argument, but it's really hard.
  2. Welcome faith2findhim! May the Lord richly bless you in abundance of joy and peace!
    My thoughts on how to win an atheist.....spend time developing a relationship with them, and show them the love of Christ. Show them who Christ is by example in your own life. Only the love of Christ can turn any heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

    Blessings, hope you find everything you are looking for in this forum.
    Ravindran likes this.
  3. Thanks Cturtle! What a cool name, is that your turtle?
    Definitely developing relationships is so important, but what if you already knew somebody for years and you made the best example you could and they had some "logical" argument against faith?
    For example, some of my friends really like this guy called Dilahunty(sp?) and believe him. Have any of you heard of him? He has some Youtube channel or a call in TV show.
    I saw that show and sometimes he makes a good point about extremism but my friends already know extremism is different and doesn't represent everybody. And he makes a bunch of other arguments that are irrational, but how can I explain that?
    They always say they want a rational argument and they'll accept something if I can make an argument for it. Is it possible, or is it only about faith and if somebody doesn't have faith you just have to give up? I don't want to give up.
    How can you use a rational argument like a pro. apologist?

    I'm struggling. :(
  4. I think we will never reach a person through arguments.. Real life does not go that way.. I completely agree with Cturtle.. Remember the days of Jesus? Do you think there could be any better apologist that have walked on this earth? And what did Pharisees do? They always asked for a sign. They just wanted something to get them convinced. Well, they got all the signs and they still rejected the truth! So people say they just a convincing explanation to change their belief. Well, faith does not work that way. Not biblically. A person cannot be convinced that they need to believe in Jesus. They need to be regenerated. Word of God is more powerful that any rational argument.

    So we are to approach people with love and plant the gospel. And obey God's great commandment - Love your neighbor as you love yourselves.. And leave rest to Spirit of God..
    Arrie03, Cturtle and Mykuhl says Amen and like this.
  5. Welcome to CFS, faith2findhim!

  6. I fully agree with what has been said here! You will never get someone to believe in God and Jesus as their saviour by logic or convincing argument. One of the reasons being is that they will come across a more convincing argument down the road against believing.

    It is the work of the Holy Spirit, only the Holy Spirit can draw them and open their eyes.
    Cturtle likes this.
  7. Thanks guys!

    But Jesus did it anyway, right? He gave them the arguments, and the responses they asked for. He gave them the chance. Some people followed and some didn't, but they had the chance always. If you give somebody the arguments, and they still reject it, there's nothing you can do. Isn't that why he gave them the chance? I thought that's what it's all about? I'm kind of confused about what you mean.

    In this situation, I would be like the Pharisees. :( Because they are giving me arguments, like Jesus gave to the Pharisees, but I have no reply to give. I'd be just as dumbfounded as the Pharisees. They would call me a hypocrite, like Jesus did to those who doubted him, and IMHO they would be right.
    I can't witness anything to them if I don't have a reply. I can tell you my friends are honest, and they are not like the Pharisees. If ever I give them one good argument to show them, they will surely accept it.

    If Jesus leads the way by making the arguments, why should that be doubted?
    I know you may not feel the same way, but it's my belief that we should always be able to stand and defend our beliefs with good arguments. If they don't accept that after I offer it to them, OK, then it's about faith. But at least I must try.

    Maybe this is not the forum to get help with learning about apologetics. Could you give me a suggestion of where to learn?
    Cturtle likes this.
  8. I disagree. Somebody's heart can be closed because they believe a wrong argument. But if you correct that, then they can open their heart.
    Now that your heart is open to Jesus, would a more convincing argument persuade you away from God?
    Maybe you can think of an argument not like a final solution, but like the foot in the door.
  9. Do you see this supported in Bible? I can show many verses that it is only God who can draw a person towards Him.

    John 6:44 - No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them
    Cturtle likes this.
  10. Welcome!! :D
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. Of course, we are to defend the truth when questioned.. I think you are bringing too many variations in your question..

    Talking with an atheist friend
    Responding to a challenge on our belief by an atheist friend
    Talking with an atheist who is stranger
    Responding to a challenge on our belief by an atheist who is stranger

    Which one are we talking about?

    Going back to Jesus, He replied to questions from Pharisees. Because they questioned the authority of Jesus. They questioned if Jesus was Messiah. But you see all through the gospels, how Jesus had one to one interaction with people while changing their hearts.
  12. #13 Mykuhl, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
    All of this really depends if they are honestly looking for the truth or not. Most people don't really want the truth. They may say they do but they really only want the truth that suits them.

    Anyone that is really seeking for truth and is willing to accept it once found(no matter how hard it is), will come to Jesus and accept Him, because He is truth...He is the embodiment of truth.

    The facts have to be presented to people so they can have the truth and have a chance to accept it. But, it is not through knowledge that one is saved but through faith. The bible teaches that the things of the Spirit are foolishness to the natural man, that he can not know them because they are spiritually discerned.

    To answer you question about if I can be convinced against God now? No, because I believe. But, one thing I can tell you is that convincing arguments do attempt to get me to doubt in what I believe. That is why faith is so important. Standing on my faith in God and in His word is what prevents me from disbelieving. That is why I said that knowledge will never keep you from one day disbelieving.
    Cturtle likes this.
  13. Also, with regards to thinking up a good argument to get your foot in the door....I think it really depends on the person you are talking to...each person responds to different things. I believe you need to let the Spirit direct you in what to say or present to them.
    Cturtle likes this.
  14. #15 Cturtle, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
    Oh no that is not my turtle, but he sure is cute though. Two thoughts came to my mind. One is to never give up praying for them. The Bible says to always make the most of ever opportunity. Keep interceding for them, and asking God for the answers....and the wisdom to answer them.

    I believe that you were put here in their paths to pray for them, and be the light in the dark tunnel. But you cannot reach them on your own. You need the Holy Spirit to guide you. The Bible says that the only for someone to come to Jesus is if the Father draws them.

    The other thought that i had was to maybe bring up a few of the topics in here, and get some advice and such. Having a good place to where a lot of godly people can help you think of things that you have not thought of may be good learning ground for you. Plus give you some things to take back to your friends. Or maybe find someone to pm (start a conversation with) and get some help for the specific questions.

  15. #16 Cturtle, May 15, 2015
    Last edited: May 15, 2015
    That could be partially true. One who has wrong believing, if presented with the right information could possibly soften just enough to let the Holy Spirit in to their lives. But again it has to be the Holy Spirit. And if their mind is clouded so to speak....then it is a spiritual issue.

    Jesus never gave up, but you notice that He always spoke in parables, and the way that He spoke they did not understand.

    How are you praying for them?
    I am really curious about their specific questions
  16. Hi, and welcome to CFS! I also really enjoy C.S. Lewis. I went to a Christian College, and I had an entire class on the writings of Lewis. The Screwtape Letters was particularly interesting - but he wrote so many good books. I sent you a private message with a couple of links I think you may find useful as well.
    Cturtle likes this.

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