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Help with some of these rules!!!

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by New2Christ, May 20, 2009.

  1. Help with some of these rules!!!

    Hey to all my bro's and sis's:)

    Hoping that you all can help me with sme of this stuff. I have been "in" church, meaning after I have been saved for 5 months. I think when you start you just trust everyone, and i am learning quickly this is not smart to do.
    But, there are some rules at the church that i was hoping you could help me to understand.
    The first one is that our church does not send flowers to funerals if the distance is to far in their opinion.
    The second is that no one can touch an instumet if they are not saved, like the cannot pick up a tambourine and play it if they are not saved.
    third, they do not allow any type of contemerary music.
    These are a few of them.

    I guess what i a wondering is how many of these rules have any biblical support to them, and how many of them ae just man made rules?

    Thanks a bunch,
    blessings:D
     
  2. Sis,

    None of that is biblical all man-made rules.

    Godbe4me
     
  3. I have good news for you.

    You were saved 2,000 years ago on the cross, so have at it.

    John 3:16
     
  4. The first one is that our church does not send flowers to funerals if the distance is to far in their opinion.
    If this is a cost issue, due to stamps, the cost of flowers etc. I understand completely. It costs a great deal to keep a church functioning and we are to be good stewards with the financial gifts God provides.

    Myself, I will not allow flowers to be placed on the Altar during funerals weddings, or any time. I feel that they distract from the Altar. I don't allow photography either as it detracts from the worship service itself. (During the service that is, pictures before and after are fine.)

    Their reasoning may be along these lines of thinking, but I can think of no biblical reason not to send flowers to a funeral. Fragrances of all sorts have always been used at funerals for somewhat unpleasant reasons.

    The second is that no one can touch an instumet if they are not saved, like the cannot pick up a tambourine and play it if they are not saved.

    Isaiah 38:20 The LORD will save me, and we will sing with stringed instruments all the days of our lives in the temple of the LORD.

    2 Samuel 6:5
    And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

    1 Chronicles 13:8
    And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets.

    According to God, it's okay to play instruments in church.
    According to Jesus you ARE saved.

    third, they do not allow any type of contemerary music.
    This one always makes me giggle.
    I think every congregation at one time or another has argued and fought over the hymn selection, the hymnal, or the music selection.
    I'd like someone to give me a definition of "Contemporary" to begin with.

    May I ask you, does your congregation have a particular hymnal that they will only sing from?
    As if Moses came down with the ten commandments in one hand, and some particular hymnal in the other?
    Or by "contemporary", are they referring to anything that doesn't sound like a funeral durge and was written less than 100 years ago?

    I would never allow a hymn that had lyrics contradictory to our statement of faith, such as "Lohengrin" (Richard Wagners Wedding March) but other than something that directly contradicts the teachings of the church, I can't imagine any good reason for excluding a hymn of praise.
    These things are adiphoric and none are commanded nor forbidden.

    I do however, respect the decisions of the congregation.
    In terms of adiophora, (Those things neither commanded nor forbiden.) the local congregation has the responsibility of deciding how they will function so that all things are proper and in good order.

    So if it were me, rather than be disrespectful of the decisions of the congregation, I would probably look for a church I felt welcomed and at home in.

    That is my opinion. :)
     
  5. Short and to the point . No need to explain . We do not have those kinds of rules in our church . Ask them where they find them in the Bible .
     
  6. adiophora

    This coming Sunday (5/24/09) we are actually scheduled to have a Bible Study in regards to the use/misuse of musical instruments in worship. It does appear to me (at this point) that this issue would be a matter of “adiophora, (Those things neither commanded nor forbiden.)” as you have mentioned.

    Is there any reference I could be made aware of in the Bible regarding such situations (if this question is not indeed a contradiction in of it’s own)?

    “the local congregation has the responsibility of deciding how they will function so that all things are proper and in good order.”

    Again (at this point), it seems this statement is as well correct. I think decisions (within the restraint of Biblical doctrine) should be made to keep the congregation together, even if it means some members sacrifice something for the congregation’s sake (again within the restraint of Biblical doctrine).

    1 Corinthians 11:13-16
    13 Judge among yourselves. Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him? 15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God. (NKJV)

    Thank you!
     
  7. Thank ya'll. I am very grateful for all the help here.

    Ride4theSon, Yes,lol, more or less they like the really old traditional songs sang. Any modern musc is frowned upon pretty much, except to us younger christians who find alot of good in alot of it.

    Also, i didn't explain fully about the flowers. They send flowers to family members of the church who have passed away, but if they think the dstance is to far, then they don't.

    I am aggravated with many of the rules we have. It is hard at times cause I just dn't agree. I know that is probably at every church, but, i don't really know what to think about it.

    Blessings to ya'll:)
     

  8. Sounds strange to me. But some of it may not be so strange, once you get to know them better.

    A lot of Christian congregations and even whole denominations have some pretty interesting rules. I have attended some and visited others, and some I have only learned about through brothers and sisters in Christ who were either members or had been members of such groups.

    I think the most important thing, in such situations is to avoid judging the believers who hold to such ideas and rules. They may or may not be able to point to meaningful Scripture support. But there is often a reason, somewhere along the way, for the idea to become reasonable and important to them.

    Religion can often get in the way of open fellowship with other Christian believers. By religion, I mean the rituals and practices that grow up in our minds and sometimes take over. A person can even be religious about not being religious. I've actually seen that happen.

    It's best not to turn away from fellow believers just because they hold different ideas. After all, no one is perfect. When the Lord wants you to go elsewhere He will lead you in His own way. The enemy, on the other hand, always accuses our brothers and sisters in Christ, pointing out all kinds of things — real and imagined — that they do wrong.

    If these Christians have been a blessing and help to you in your early walk with Christ, then allow them to continue being a part of your life and Christian growth. You may think they are a bit strange, but try not to let that get between you and them. The Lord probably has a good reason for bringing them into your life.

    I visited a Bible school, many years ago, to encourage some kids from our church who were attending, and who felt crushed by all the harsh rules of conduct and behavior. It was far away from our home, way up in the Adirondack mountains, and very conservative. My wife and I drove about a thousand miles to get there.

    When we got there, the kids had already settled down and were pretty happy. The school was very conservative (a lot more than our church at the time), but the kids had also been homesick. What I saw while visiting made me want to attend the school myself. And after serious prayer, I moved my family up there.

    To this day, I wear jeans just about everywhere. I don't keep my hair super short. And I do other things that the school had very strict rules against. But while attending the school I did everything I could to keep all the rules. And they also leaned a lot, trying to overlook my "wild and crazy" ways.

    I believed the Lord wanted me to attend, and they also believed I belonged there. So we respected the differences we had and things worked out. The result was that my wife and I had a fantastic time there, soaking up all kinds of good stuff, and making wonderful new friends in Christ.

    Jim
     
  9. Religion has many rules. Some times organizations need rules for a good reason sometimes they are just legalistic. That place sounds pretty stuffy.
     
  10. Thank you Pazzoom, I do see that point, i guess some rules may have maning that we are not awae of.

    Bo, kinda, well my best friend and sister in christ an myself are the "youth" and she is 30 ad i am 27, so i think we are way over the limit to qualif as the youth, lol. But, i d love that everything preached is straght from the bible and the spirit is wonderful, GODhas blessed uslately. hmm, i don't maybe it is me just being so young a christian that is making it complicated to me.
     
  11. If you are happy there- if you have a peace in your spirit about being there and if you are being fed there then do not seat the little stuff.:)
     
  12. Isaiah 38:20 The LORD will save me, and we will sing with stringed instruments all the days of our lives in the temple of the LORD.

    2 Samuel 6:5
    And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

    1 Chronicles 13:8
    And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets.


    In addition to the Old Testament examples above pertaining to the use of musical instruments in church worship, Ephesians 5:19 also states that we are to use psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs…”Singing and “MAKING MELODY” (See KJV) The term “making melody” is from the Greek “psallontes” which literally means to “strum, touch, or rub” clearly indicating the playing of an instrument such as a harp, guitar, or even a drum.

    This may be of interest during your Bible study.

    That being said, I cannot over emphasize Pauls teachings with regard to the establishment of the church hierarchy and the responsibilities of the Elders, Bishops, and the responsibilities of the people to their spiritual leaders. 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 commands us to respect the elders of the church. We are to submit to their authority.

    This is not a servant/leader submission, rather it is a willing and wanting submission out of respect and appreciation for their loving and knowledgeable service. 1st Timothy 5:17 teaches us of the Elders roles of responsibility and leadership, as do Romans 12:8 and 1 Timothy 3:2.

    So just because there is no scriptural mandate against some particular practice within the church, does not indicate that it should necessarily be permitted. The Elders, Pastors, Deacons, Presbyters, Priests, may in fact, have good reason for including, or excluding any number of adiaphoric practices. :)
     
  13. There are several dynamics at work in the congregation. Older people have their ideas and rules that are learned sometimes from difficult days. That may make the rule valid in their circumstances, and useful for younger people to learn, but it does not make it easy for the younger folks to accept. And it may not make any such rule meaningful to future generations.

    Part of your function as a younger adult is to question and even challenge the established ways. Not in arrogance, as our society often does it, but like you are doing it: asking questions and trying to figure out God's will in the matter. This is the good and valid work God gives younger people and new believers. If we simply accept everything given to us by the older generations, then we become recipients and conveyors of tradition instead of living members of the living Body of Christ.

    If you have the chance, sometime, read and re-read Mark 7:1-15. In this passage we see a very popular religious tradition coming into direct conflict with the living Word and will of God. Jesus, because He is the Lord, did not hesitate to expose the problem (part of His work on earth was to clearly define God's truth in a very religious and traditional society that had drifted far away from God's heart and life). There was nothing wrong with the custom of washing before eating. Washing hands is a good thing. But the rules had become more binding among them than the reality of God's Holy Spirit and the clearly written Word of God.

    Youth (even mature, adult youth) is supposed to question the "old ways". How else can we prove that some of the old ways are good and worth passing on to our own children? God wants each of us to walk in His Spirit, not in blind acceptance of ancestral or religious traditions. The Christian faith is not a tradition passed on from one generation to the next, but a spiritual life given to each person by Christ Himself.

    On the other hand, it is wisdom to allow the church to function under the leadership God has given it for the day. Respect and honor is worth more than all the sound arguments in the world. The older folks will see God's wisdom in you when they see your willingness to learn discipline and patience, even when you can't always agree fully with their views or traditions. When your time comes to lead, you will then be able to help make adjustments, if they are needed, and also carry on some of the things that have been proven meaningful and helpful to the people served.

    Jim
     
  14. Sister, I would pray for the Lord to lead and guide you. This church is probably a great church, but just different than what your spirit is seeking. It's ok to try different churches to see which one feels like it was meant for you.

    The key word is "pray". The Lord will lead you.

    Blessings, Cheri
     
  15. adiophora

    Thank you for the great references. I am typically interested in the aspect of “adiophora” as a whole, regarding any matters that may fall into the “adiophora category”. Such a "catagory" has many topics for sure.
     
  16. I recommend you take a long hard look at your worship service to begin with.
    By the way, this makes for a tremendous Bible study class.

    What do you see in your liturgy?
    An introit?
    Confession,....Absolution.... Do you have a collect?
    Readings? a Sermon? Communion? How about the Lord's Prayer? what about a benediction? Do you sing hymns?

    Now, as you study your liturgy, ask yourselves... "Do we need this?" "Do we need That?"
    Do he have to say the Lord's prayer? if so, WHY?

    What about a confession and absolution? Are they necessary in a service?...Why?

    Must we read from the Word of God?

    etc.

    I can promise you one thing, It will cause everyone in your congregation to give greater thought to the various aspects of your worship service, it will get rid of a great deal of complacency, (How many times have you said the Lord's Prayer while thinking about what to make for lunch??) ;) and it will give a deeper meaning to peoples worship experience!!

    As I said, it makes for a great bible study! :)
     
  17. Psa 150:1 Praise ye Jehovah. Praise God in his sanctuary: Praise him in the firmament of his power.
    Psa 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: Praise him according to his excellent greatness.
    Psa 150:3 Praise him with trumpet sound: Praise him with psaltery and harp.
    Psa 150:4 Praise him with timbrel and dance: Praise him with stringed instruments and pipe.
    Psa 150:5 Praise him with loud cymbals: Praise him with high sounding cymbals.
    Psa 150:6 Let everything that hath breath praise Jehovah. Praise ye Jehovah.


    :)
     
  18. I'm so thankful to have ya'll. You thoughts on this have truly helped me and I took a great bit of each one with me to help me through. God knows just who to send to you when you need it:)
     
  19. A thought on Contemporary Music

    When those old hymn where first produced back in History, at that time, they where all, Contemporary Music.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  20. Indeed!:D:D:D A fair amount of church hymns were at one time bar room music that had new lyrics applied.
     

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