Help Me Answer a Trinity Question

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SweetSurrender, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. Help Me Answer a Trinity Question

    This is an email I received from my Mormon friend. I need help finishing my response to her.
    Joy is sick a lot and it seems worse when she has doubts about her faith, so I know she may be close to making a decision. Thanx for all your prayers!

    I typed this last night late. But the computer had poped its self off line again as it does offten. So I went to bed and slept for a while.

    I cannot sleep. My head hurts. I am so tired. I am sitting here again. I went to bed once. Mike is up there sawing logs. I am sipping warm milk with almond flavor in it. It is pretty good. Not as good as cocoa though. I have been like this for days. Very tired but can’t sleep. My muscles are achy like I worked hard and they won’t relax when I lay down.

    I just do not understand this Trinity thing. So God tore a piece of himself off and put it in Mary. It became a human baby. Then when he was crucified he became a spirit again and then took back on himself a physical body that could be touched (and was) and eat and drink. He said all people will die and receive a perfect, resurrected body of flesh and bone like his. Then he went back to himself and squished himself back together to become one being again and then let many Prophets see him as two people. God and Jesus sitting in different thrones, but they are not 2 just one? How does that work? It does not make sense to me. Too veg, too confusing, not sensible.

    Another thing I don't understand is this thing were there are so many different churches. You said one time that you did not think that it mattered what church you belong to if you confess Jesus and let him work in your heart. How can that be? Jesus said that he is unchangeable, but each of hundreds of churches believe something different. If all are right and are acceptable to God than God is changeable and has no set rules. Some churches believe it is ok to have gay relationships like the new version of the Friends Church in New York. Some think living together is ok as long as you care about each other, Like the Friends Church Mary belongs to. Some think there is a Trinity and some a TRi-unity and some a Godhead and some even think that God is Black and I heard of one that thinks God is actually a woman. If God is unchangeable than only one church is actually right or maybe all churches are wrong. If God is changeable and lets his rules change to what ever people like he is not God. If he is unchangeable than there is only one true church and everyone else is not going to the same place as the ones that belong to that true church. Your churches rules are different than my churches rules. There are even churches that have the same name and claim to be of the same faith, and teach different things. Some churches believe that because in Jesus day, the Sabbath day was on the day we call Saturday that Saturday is the true Sabbath day and they treat it as such( Seventh Day Adventists). Each person will be judged on how well they kept the laws of God that they had. What if they had the wrong laws? What if a person could have kept the right laws but did not know them or if a person that kept the laws he had perfectly but would not have kept the laws if they had been the true and tougher laws. Jesus did not come to change the laws he said he came to fulfill it. He did not revoke all the laws that Moses had he only changed the one about sacrifice. He did not change the laws about the Priesthood, he used the Priesthood to further the church. He used the Priesthood to choose and ordain a person to govern his church after he was not on earth anymore. If your church is the one and only true church than you would have the right to say that the Friends Church that allows gay relationships is wrong. But if your church is not the only true church than you can not judge that. What if their church is the one and only true church that has all of the true laws of God? God only made one set of rules. Who has the true set of rules and who has the ones that have been tampered with by men? Jesus said there is only one God and one Church. Which one is it? If only one is right that all the others are wrong. If many or all are right than God is a changeable God and would cease to be God as it says in the Bible.
  2. This is part of my reply to Joy

    Oh, Joy! I am soooo sorry you are so ill! Have you gone to the Dr.? If I was feeling like you, I'd go to Emergency or something. You can't think straight or do anything worthwhile without proper sleep. You really need to take something like you recommended to me. I'll bring you some right now if you will take it. I'm talking about St. John's Wort and Valerian Root. Let me know and I will bring it.

    About the Trinity thing:
    The churches we have today are just buildings. It's the people in them who are The Church. At least the Christians who are following the Bible's teachings. And sometimes that does not include the preacher even. There are no true churches in that case because they are all made up of imperfect beings. It doesn't even matter if each church were to follow the instructions of one central prophet to the "t". Like you are instructed to teach a particular lesson in a given week, all over the world. It still doesn't matter. God, and His Holy Bible are the instructors of all creation in my opinion. Because He is God, and only He should be the one to follow. Because He created us, and so should know. We are created after His own image, so he knows how our psychi works. He is the only one qualified. I could never trust in a mere man to be his spokesperson. And I don't have to. The Bible has all the wisdom I need to live a happy life and to lead others to Jesus.

    As far as the Trinity, If you really believe that Heavenly Father is one of many gods who were like you and I are, then yes, I can see how hard it would be to understand. But those of us who believe He is the one and only God throughout all of time, then it should not be hard to understand. We have many scriptures that explain the fact.

    Yes, we were made in God's image, but we cannot know the mind of God. Or, at least we cannot understand everything because there are mysteries that He said could not be known until we are given our spiritual bodies. We are so used to thinking the same way that it is unconceivable to twist our brains around another concept. Especially in the condition you are right now, it will be hard to understand how I believe. But I will try.

    One of the best books on the Trinity is the Book of St. John. Here are some verses that are pretty straight forward to me.

    Joh 14:7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him."Joh 14:8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
    Joh 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?Joh 14:10Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.Joh 14:11Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
    What would this mean if not that Jesus, who Philip was talking to, is in the Father and the Father in Jesus? It states it other places even more plainly. Here is a scripture about the true church and the Trinity:

    Joh 17:11Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. "these are in the world" are the Church of Jesus Christ. He wants the Father to make them one. Who are the ones who teach and preach only His Word and no other. They are one and they are his true church.

    Joy, I will have to get back with the rest of my answer to you. Have to go. Bonnie
  3. This image is very close to the one I saw a while back. I had a hard time wrapping my mind around the idea of the Trinity. I just didn’t get it. I guess I’m receptive to images and when I saw the one I saw, it just clicked and I got it. If your friend is image oriented, maybe this will help.

  4. We humans have a mind, a body, and a soul. Someone who has met joy could look at Joy's physical form (body without the mind or soul) and say, "That is Joy." Just so, someone who has spoken with her on an intellectual level can read something she has written and say, "That is what Joy thinks- these thoughts could only come from Joy." The same with the soul- body, mind and soul are distinct, and all of them are Joy, yet it takes all of them to make up Joy. We cannot fully isolate the mind, body, and soul of Joy from each other. The Trinity can be explained something like that.

    Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
  5. Changed your avitar!

    Hey, Dean!
    You screwed me up by doing that! I had to stop and think of who am I is. Ok, he's a nice kitty. :D

    Thanx for the diagrams. I'm thinking she is so mixed up on this subject because of what she was taught and how it is repeated so often that it is hard to get another concept into your head. I think I have given her lots of illustrations in the past, but she wants to see proof in the Bible.

    One I know I gave her is a picture I tried to give of the Trinity on a post once. It's about how I am a wife, a mother, and a daughter. I'm not three different people, I'm 3-in-one.

    I think I will try going onto e-Sword and figure out how to get scripture subject-wise from there. All I know how to do right now is copy and paste into a post. Bo, are there tutorials on that site?

  6. Oh, yes Damascene. That is a very good illustration and it is made up of something she should understand. In other words, it describes who Joy is. Joy consists of her mind, body and soul, or spirit. As we all do.

    Sooooo . . . do you think God could have possibly had something to do with that? :p Yes, I think he has many things in nature to point us in that direction.

    Since Joy has been under attack lately, I am praying she will be able to "get it" sometime soon. Please pray for her and her husband, Mike, that the power of darkness and deceit wil be broken and they can join me in The Light!
  7. For a very long time, the doctrine of the Trinity has been a hot topic between a number of Christian churches and denominations - so much so that, over the centuries, Christians have tragically persecuted, and even killed, other Christians in an effort to "prove" who was right!
    Daily Bible Study - The Trinity
  8. Actually… it should be
    1. Body
    2. Soul
    3. Spirit

    Our soul, of course, being our mind, will and emotions.
    That is where the evil spirits will come into as Christians, since the Holy Spirit resides in our spirit.
    That is another thread though… nuff said. :D
  9. It all depends on how you define these terms, I guess.:cool:

  10. I like what Paul says about them being separate.

    1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and IprayGod your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  11. Wow! Thanx for that, Who! I think we talked about this once before. Soooo . . . you think an evil spirit can come into a Christian's spirit? Isn't that where the Holy Spirit resides?

  12. No... and yes

    See post #8
  13. In honor of the coming St. Patrick's Day...

    Look at a three leaf clover. There are three leaves on one stem, like the three faces on one God.
  14. Thanx, Cookie! The clover is quite clever. So, it seems all of nature cries out for understanding.

    Welcome to our forum. Hope you enjoy the fellowship and grow in God's grace.
  15. The trinity is not a biblical doctrine.. It is christianity's self righous answer to Pagan accusations that Christianity was no differant than their religian.

    It come from the early creeds ,not the scriptures.
    It is a diversionary tactic used by Satan to bring doubt, confussion, fear, controvery and division into the body of Christ.
    It is not a salvational issue.

    Respectfully His
  16. i agree with theo,to push trinity on people is senseless with very little evidence.
  17. I have to say that I believe the Trinity is Biblical and very important.
    If someone has a question about it, I will try to answer it to the best of my ability. I will not tell them my time would be better spent pounding sand in a rat hole. I think that would just be outright rude to make a comment like that. And as far as there being very little evidence… the amount of evidence does not dictate the amount of truth in something, or it’s importance. If there was very little evidence of God, He would still be the same God.

    SweetSurrender… I admire you for taking the time and effort to try to explain this to your friend. Only God knows if this will be the turning point for her or not. Don’t give up trying to understand the best way to explain it to her. I still remember the day I “got it”, and understood. That day is a big part of my life. I just wish could explain it better myself.

    The best I can do is "GOD" is the whole.
    God the Father is one part.
    God the Son is one part.
    God the Holy Spirit is one part.
    The three together are “GOD”.
    And at the same time, each part is "GOD", and each part deserves our love and respect as "GOD".

    The difficult part in explaining the Trinity with analogies like our “body”, “soul” and “spirit” is the fact that we can’t separate ourselves and be in different places at the same time, while still being one.

    Blessings to all
  18. I of course disagree completely with that brother. Neither did that sound respectful. please be more careful in your wording.
    The scriptures contain the Trinity of God from cover to cover if one has eyes to see. This is not an argument just an observation.

    God is tripartite- Father, Son and Holy Spirit He created man in His own image- tripartite- spirit, soul, body. By the way the scripture will only list those in that order.
    In Genesis Chapter 1 We see God the Son in creative mode:
    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    We specifically n know this is the Son because we are told this in John Chapter 1:
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Without going into major detail here we know that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are all distinct personalities within our God

    Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
    Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
    Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
    Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
    Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
    Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
    Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    In the above verses we see God the Father addressing the Son as Ho' Theos- with the definite article Ho' that translates the Most High God. So we have the Most High God (the Father) calling the Son the Most High God.
    Then there us the precious Holy Spirit. He is indeed described repeatedly as the very breath or life force of God, He has all the attributes of God and is the very manifestation of God's presence in our lives. He has personality, he can be grieved and quenched, He was will and direction for us- in short He is quite a marvelous personage.
    We no from scripture that there is but One God and that there is non like Him and yet all three here are like Him, that is because the three are One.

    Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
  19. why did Jesus have to leave to send the holy ghost.?
  20. i,m not aggainst the idea of a trinity,just there is lots to discuss on the subject.

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