Who says?But you're not understanding the lake of fire is symbolic for Gehenna. Lake of Fire is Revelation symbolism.
Who says?But you're not understanding the lake of fire is symbolic for Gehenna. Lake of Fire is Revelation symbolism.
Who says?
You might want to check your Greek because the word "lake" means pond or lake. Furthermore, it also contains brimstone. Hell and death are also thrown in. Hell is pretty big, bigger than the valley of Hinnom. You've got it backwards, Gehenna is the symbolism for a place of torment, a metaphor. Just like saying "as big as Mt. Everest" to mean very big. Jesus was giving them examples they could comprehend. Why is this such a big deal. Focus on Jesus and none of this will matter, then spread the word about Jesus.Good afternoon.
Well, I would say that Jesus says. We see that in Rev 20:10-15 NIV the wicked will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, the same place or location of where the wicked also go after death, which is Gehenna Matt 10:28 NIV. The scripture of (Jer 31:38-40 NIV) speaks of the Valley of Hinnom one day being made holy to the Lord, never to be uprooted or demolished. It also mentions dead bodies and ashes, the same ashes in which we will trample under our feet Mal 4:3 NIV.
The term "lake of fire" is used symbolically to describe a very very large pile of dead bodies inside the valley, where the bodies will be burned. At that point the place that is the "lake of fire" is literal, but the name is symbolic. For example, the word "lake" simply describes "a valley" of dead bodies being burned. The beginning of verse 40 describes the lake of fire, "The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown".
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when this city will be rebuilt for me from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39The measuring line will stretch from there straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to Goah. 40The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown, and all the terraces out to the Kidron Valley on the east as far as the corner of the Horse Gate, will be holy to the Lord. The city will never again be uprooted or demolished.” Jer 31:38-40 NIV
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You might want to check your Greek because the word "lake" means pond or lake.
Furthermore, it also contains brimstone. Hell and death are also thrown in. Hell is pretty big, bigger than the valley of Hinnom.
You've got it backwards, Gehenna is the symbolism for a place of torment, a metaphor. Just like saying "as big as Mt. Everest" to mean very big. Jesus was giving them examples they could comprehend.
Why is this such a big deal. Focus on Jesus and none of this will matter, then spread the word about Jesus.
It is eternal... it says so. You can't deny that. If everyone gets into heaven after trillions of years, why did Jesus die? His death is just an express ticket to heaven?! Come on now. Believe the word of God and stop making things up.Well of course it does because the word lake is being used to describe the valley of dead bodies. For example, I could say 6 million Jews were thrown into a pit. Or I could say 6 million Jews were thrown into a mass grave. The pit is describing the mass grave, just like the "lake of fire" is describing the Valley of Hinnom.
So, brimstone is part of God's wrath. He even made it rain brimstone, remember? (Gen 19:24 NIV) . He's also going to rain down brimstone during the (Ezekiel 38-39 KJV) war in the distant future. Also, how would you know it's bigger than the valley. The dimensions of hell aren't given to us, unlike the dimensions of the New Jerusalem. Rev 21:9-27 NIV. You could easily fit bodies on top of bodies in the valley. I don't see that as a problem. They even burned bodies in the valley in the time of Moloch. http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/images/02themas/hinnom.jpg
No, Gehenna is not symbolism or a metaphor. Gehenna (Ancient Greek) is the Valley of Hinnom (Hebrew) located in Jerusalem, a physical place. http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/images/02themas/hinnom.jpg
It's a big deal because the majority of Christians believe hell is eternal. They follow tradition or what they've been conditioned to believe. God leaving nonbelievers to burn for eternity is a fictional story only inside the imagination of the Christian. Jesus was simply using the Valley of Hinnom to describe hell and what it would look like. But one day the bodies will turn to ashes, the fire will be no more, the earth will be renewed and the valley will be made holy to the Lord. In that instance, it's impossible for hell to be eternal.
It is eternal... it says so. You can't deny that. If everyone gets into heaven after trillions of years, why did Jesus die? His death is just an express ticket to heaven?! Come on now. Believe the word of God and stop making things up.
Then I guess "eternal life" isn't eternal either... sounds like atheist belief - we just cease to be at death. And "eternal God" (Deu 33:27) is just the "eastern" God.Eternal, everlasting and forever and ever are English translations. English translations are mistranslations. Making things up? Huh.
You're making things up as much as anyone else. The Greek word Jesus used in equating the duration of both punishment and life, in one sentence, cannot be given two different meanings just because of an a priori insistence that punishment cannot be endless. And you ignore figures of speech and context. What Greek word would you demand be used in scripture to denote eternity?Eternal, everlasting and forever and ever are English translations. English translations are mistranslations. Making things up? Huh.
Then I guess "eternal life" isn't eternal either... sounds like atheist belief - we just cease to be at death. And "eternal God" (Deu 33:27) is just the "eastern" God.
You're making things up as much as anyone else. The Greek word Jesus used in equating the duration of both punishment and life, in one sentence, cannot be given two different meanings just because of an a priori insistence that punishment cannot be endless. And you ignore figures of speech and context. What Greek word would you demand be used in scripture to denote eternity?
I've pointed out before that Jesus is certainly not comparing televisions and radios, or houses and watches, or anything else but life and punishment. I've also pointed out that it is a fallacy called "special pleading" to make the same word "aionios" change meaning depending on whether it describes life or punishment. There is nothing in the context or semantic range to choose a different meaning except to satisfy the desired conclusion that punishment cannot be eternal, which itself is a fallacy called "begging the question".Just because “aionios” is used to describe life and punishment, does not mean they have to be of the same length and quality any more than a “small” television has to be the same size as a “small” radio
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Jesus is using the same word to compare life and death as in, he's contrasting the wonderful life the believer will receive with the death the unbeliever will receive. That life goes on as long as one can see.
I've pointed out before that Jesus is certainly not comparing televisions and radios, or houses and watches, or anything else but life and punishment. I've also pointed out that it is a fallacy called "special pleading" to make the same word "aionios" change meaning depending on whether it describes life or punishment. There is nothing in the context or semantic range to choose a different meaning except to satisfy the desired conclusion that punishment cannot be eternal, which itself is a fallacy called "begging the question".
Jesus simply said "aionion life... aionion punishment", without any qualifying statements.
There is nothing in scripture to place the Lake of Fire on the earth. The Bible states clearly that Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet will be in conscious torment forever:The lake of fire will be on earth Relentless, and the valley will be made holy to the Lord and the old earth will be renewed. The burning pile of dead bodies will not burn forever.
For the Devil to be tortured eternally, he would have to be kept alive forever. However, the Bible says that he will be brought to nothing, or put out of existence.—Hebrews 2:14 NIV
There is nothing in scripture to place the Lake of Fire on the earth. The Bible states clearly that Satan, the Beast, and the False Prophet will be in conscious torment forever:
Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There is nothing in scripture to place the Lake of Fire on the earth.
It says the devil holds the power of death, not that the devil is or represents death. And please stop going on about the English meaning, since I've cited the Greek word aionion and I and others have shown you that "eternal" is part of its semantic range.Forever and ever is an English term. It is translated ages of the ages. How can the devil be tormented forever if he represents death Heb 2:14 NIV.
I've already posted a link to my thoughts on Universalism and won't endlessly repeat or copy/paste them here. Do you at least concede that the devil, Beast, and False Prophet will be in conscious eternal torment?Lastly, we see here that the wicked will be destroyed, will be no more, perish, consumed, devoured, die, stubble and ashes under our feet etc..
It says the devil holds the power of death, not that the devil is or represents death. And please stop going on about the English meaning, since I've cited the Greek word aionion and I and others have shown you that "eternal" is part of its semantic range.
The devil doesn't represent death? Hmmm.....
I've already posted a link to my thoughts on Universalism and won't endlessly repeat or copy/paste them here. Do you at least concede that the devil, Beast, and False Prophet will be in conscious eternal torment?
What does "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" mean to you?What do the words destroyed, will be no more, perish, consumed, devoured, die, stubble and ashes under our feet mean to you.
Here's a question I'd like you to answer:
If people, or at least the devil, are to be tormented only for a while and then annihilated, what's the point of the torment?
What does "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" mean to you?
That's exactly my point: If people and/or the devil will be annihilated anyway, there's no point in making them suffer first, since they won't remember it anyway, and those who no longer exist aren't going to learn any lessons. Of course Jesus is in control, but that has exactly nothing to do with answering the question. If the wicked are consumed, meaning (according to you) that they will be annihilated, then there was no point in having them suffer for any length of time.That's like asking why Jesus would judge someone but annihilate them right away or burn them forever. Jesus is the one in control. (Rev 1:18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.) God is a consuming fire. The wicked will be consumed. They are judged according to what they have done in the body. (Rev 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.)
No, you made that up. Or somebody did. You have still not faced the fact that scripture explicitly states the eternal conscious suffering of the devil, beast, and false prophet, in the presence of the Lamb.It means the wicked will be torturing themselves by not accepting Christ as Savior. Forever and ever is translated ages of the ages. http://www.askelm.com/doctrine/d050101.htm