Hebrews 6:6 does not teach a loss of Salvation.

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Aenon, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. Many people have stumbled when they come to Hebrews 6, and many have gotten off on different paths because of it. There is a huge misconception about verse 6 in specific, and I’ll explain that misconception first, before I explain the answer.

    The incorrect view of this verse is that in verse 4-5, there is an obvious description of a Christian. Someone who knows God (and yes it does mean that). But then in verse 6, people think that the verse is saying if someone who is saved, falls away from God, they have lost their salvation and they are never able to repent again to get salvation back, because God has hardened their hearts forever.

    This view is entirely wrong, and once you understand the context of chapter 6, you will see why.

    Verse 1 says to “leave” the principles of the doctrine of Christ, and go unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God.

    So right off the bat, Hebrews 6 is contextually talking about spiritual maturity. So what does that mean? Now look at verses 4-6.

    It says it is impossible for a Christian that has fallen away, to be renewed again (have sins forgiven) BY repenting. This verse is showing that a Christian does not repent to have sins forgiven. That was done once when you put your faith in Christ. We need to move on now, unto maturity. A Christian “can’t” repent to have sins forgiven twice. It’s impossible. You would be saying Jesus needs to die for all of your sins again, which doesn’t make any logical sense. A Christian does not repent for the forgiveness of sins, but to come back into fellowship with God. God cares most about sanctification, to make you look more like Christ. Being in sin not only brings you out of fellowship with God, but also inhibits the process of sanctification. The less you are sanctified in this world, the less reward you’ll have in heaven. It is not saying you can lose your salvation.

    So move on to maturity in Christ!

  2. Six times the risen Christ calls on the churches to repent (Revelation 2:5, 16, 21, 22; 3:3,19.) He was not asking these backslidden Christians to do something that they could not do. Repentance (turning back to God when we have been away from Him) is applicable to the whole of our Christian lives, not just the beginning.

    In Hebrews 6:1, the writer is saying that the believers should not have to be continually taught these truths, not that maturity means abandoning the truths themselves. Otherwise, we would have to understand it as saying that the mature Christian also no longer needs faith in God.


  3. I think you may be missing details on what repentance is. Repentance is different when compared to saved and unsaved. An unsaved person repents to have their sins forgiven. A saved person repents to come back into fellowship with God. A saved person does not repent to have their sins forgiven. They are already forgiven. Jesus paid the atonement necessary for ALL sin, not just the sin you commit today. Once you're saved, you are wiped clean forever. Hebrews 6 is for the person trying to obtain salvation by works, or maintain salvation by works, which is the same thing. He who has began a good work in you is faithful to finish it until the day of Jesus Christ. Believers are supposed to repent, not to get their sins forgiven, but to get right with God so the process of sanctification is no longer hindered.
  4. Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

    Romans 6:15 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

  5. No, repentance is repentance. There is nowhere in the Word that suggests that repentance changes its character once we are saved. And yes, believers still need to appropriate forgiveness for the sins they have committed after salvation:

    Jas 5:15 "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."

    That verse is in the context of prayer for believers, not for the unsaved.

    1Jn 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Again, this is written to believers, not to the unsaved.

    You say a saved person repents to come back into fellowship with God. That is true ... but the only thing that keeps us out of fellowship with God is sin; and the only way to deal with sin is through repentance and forgiveness.

    What is repentance?
    First, it is a change of mind. We thought our own way of thinking, speaking and acting was right; but now we change our thinking and accept that God's ways are right.

    It is a change of heart. We have delighted in things that God does not delight in; but now we are willing to allow Him to cause us to love the things He loves and hate the things He hates.

    It is a change of direction. We were following our own ways, and moving toward our own goals; but now we allow God to set the goals and directions for our lives, and we choose to follow them.

    It is a change of loyalty. We were serving ourselves, having set ourselves up as our own gods; but now we are willing to serve only the Lord Jesus Christ.

    It is a change of action. We were doing wrong; now by God's grace we choose to do right. Unless repentance includes a change in the things we do, we have not truly repented.

    All these obviously apply to the beginning of our Christian walk; but they also apply in varying degrees along the way.

    Finally, what repentance is not (either for an unsaved person or for a Christian): it is not asking to be forgiven. Many people ask for forgiveness, but they have not repented - and in some cases have absolutely no intention of repenting.

    God's forgiveness has already been provided through Christ's death at Calvary. Repentance and faith, working together, are the two means by which we appropriate that forgiveness ... whether for the first time or the ten thousandth time.


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  6. You need forgiveness, but not because you are no longer saved and you need to be saved again. James 5:15 is not talking about salvation. The context of chapter 5 is referring to the people that are physically ill due to sin, having their sins forgiven to remove the illness. That has nothing to do with eternal life being in jeopardy. My point is that whenever repentance is directed at believers, it is 99% due to sin getting in the way of your fellowship with God, and 1% due to sin that will lead to your physical death (not spiritual). Scripture never teaches about believers losing their salvation. When God calls unbelievers to repent, it is because they are on their way to hell, and need their sins forgiven and God's wrath propitiated. A believer already has the wrath of God propitiated and sins forgiven because of Jesus. It's not like you need to repent every second of the day to maintain salvation so you're still saved. That is just ignorance to what Christ did. A prodigal will always return to the father's house.
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  7. Aenon, as co-heirs with Christ and God's children:

    1 John 3:1,2 -

    1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
    2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

    Romans 8:14-15 -

    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
    15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
    16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
    17 and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

    .....we don't want to deliberately sin against God. But, if we do because of our sin nature, the Holy Spirit grieves and convicts us. If we continue to walk in the Spirit, we acknowledge our sins and confess them immediately (sometimes not right away). When we sin, our relationship with God is not broken for He still sees us as His sons and daughters in Christ, but we know deep inside that our fellowship with Him isn't the same as we have unconfessed sins that bother us and might hinder us from being used in His kingdom. When we pray, we do our best to confess any sins that we have committed, either we consciously know it or not! There is no harm done with starting our day with a clean slate!!

    So, Lynn is right in pointing us to 1 John 1:9 -

    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  8. My post is not in reply to yours right above it but my thoughts about forgiveness.
  9. Being saved is not a get out of jail pass for sin, no more than keeping the commandments is salvation by works. All of our best efforts in works were eliminated at the time of our very first sin in life, which condemned us at that moment to an eternal separation from YHVH. From that point onward there was nothing that could save us but YHVH grace in Yeshua. So working to overcome sin by fasting, or studying YHVH word towards sanctification, is not works for salvation, but works of transformation. Rom. 12:1-2. And yes sin is a separation from YHVH for our own good, for neither sin nor its source can continue its existence in the presence of a Holy YHVH, that is another reason why we needed a go between mediator between us and YHVH IE. Yeshua.

    Rom 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

    Luk 13:23 "Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them, 24 "Strive (IE work and struggle). to enter through the narrow gate, (the gate of the righteous) for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, (see Rev. 20:5-6.) and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' 26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, (IE. they celebrated amongst His Church body) and You taught in our streets.' (and they acknowledged His teachings, and who He was). 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.' (but they didn't have enough faith or belief to do the things He said to do). 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out. (see Rev. 20:11-13. the reason they are weeping and gnashing their teeth, is because they have now gotten a glimpse of what Heaven is like, and all they have lost out on). They will come from the east and the west, from the north and the south, and sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And indeed there are last who will be first, and there are first who will be last."

    Heb 10:26 "For if we (who is the we that Paul is speaking of here, but those like himself in the body of Yeshua?) sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, (The knowledge of what truth? The saving gospel truth) there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (If Yeshua sacrifice no longer exists for someone, then their sin is not forgiven). 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. (If one is devoured they are eternally separated from YHVH) I do not try to change what the scriptures say by adding my own interpretation to them, but simply accept word for word what they say. One can not loose there salvation, but language do not begin one can throw it away by having a greater love for the world than for YHVH.

    Words like FAITH/FAITHFUL and BELIEVE/BELIEF in the English language, do not even begin to give a true understanding of there Hebrew counterpart. For the Hebrew concept entails a great deal more than just acknowledging something, or knowing it to be true, but rather entails becoming a part and way of a person's life.

    Many today pick and choose what scriptures they want to believe, and try to use scripture to annul the scriptures which do not fit there interpretation. And then teach and mislead others into believing likewise.

    Shalom uvrachah – peace and blessing.

  10. I never said it was. I agree with you. Someone who lives as though Christ never gave a law is probably not saved to begin with. A Christian "can not" continue sinning. God will convict them until they repent, or if they grieve and quench the spirit and become a prodigal, God will allow them to destroy their lives to bring them back. A true saved person can NOT continue sinning. It is an impossibility. Someone who can, is not saved.

    Exactly, growing in your fellowship with Christ has nothing to do with Salvation, but Sanctification. After we are converted, salvation is set in stone. However, Christ is not done with us, or else God would rapture us to heaven the second we are saved. We still have purpose in this world. That purpose is to save souls through reflecting the image of Jesus Christ.

    Actually that is incorrect. Weeping and gnashing of teeth (in every scripture reference regarding hell), is talking about the blind; hard-hearted; impenitent; fist-clenched hatred for God (see Psalm 35:16, Acts 7:54 for usage of "gnash"). It is a gnashing of teeth out of anger. People in hell are not "upset" because they lost out on something, they hate God even more than they did when they were alive.

    Not after they get saved they can't. Noah's ark is a picture of salvation, and Noah couldn't get off the boat after God closed the door (Genesis 7:16).

    Here are some verses to think about:

    "Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" - Galatians 3:3

    Nobody can "complete" what God has done. God starts salvation, God completes it. It has begun in the spirit, it ends in the spirit. You don't accept Jesus and get converted, and then start doing "works" to complete the process. It is works that are evidence for salvation. Works are not what gives you salvation. Works are also evidence of faith as well, as James points out.

    "But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." - Galatians 5:18

    The Holy Spirit inside you makes you above the law.
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  11. I never suggested that a Christian needs forgiveness because he/she is no longer saved. However, essentially the unsaved sinner and the Christian both need forgiveness for the same reason: sin separates us from God. Whether that separation is eternal or temporary, the solution is the same: repentance on our part, and forgiveness on God's part.

    Once again, let me stress: repentance is NOT about getting forgiven. Repentance (our part) is about turning back to God. Forgiveness (God's part) is always there for us when we repent - but if our "repentance" is only a hope of being forgiven, without any true turning of mind, heart, direction, loyalty and action back to God, then we have not truly repented.

    As to the possibility of losing salvation, let me ask this: if we are saved by grace (as the Word tells us we are) and we later let go of grace, either by submitting again to the law (cf Gal. 5:2) or by returning to a reliance on our own works, then do we not also lose that which we gained through grace, ie salvation? And, if Adam and Eve could fall from a state of perfection, who are we to presume that we cannot fall from a state of less-than-perfection?


  12. We are saved by GOD'S grace, you can't "let go" of the grace from another. That is the grace "giver's" choice to make. Otherwise it would not be grace, if you are giving someone what they deserve. Being that God's grace is unconditional, to say "doing my own thing" after accepting the gift would nullify the gift would mean it is conditional based upon you not running away. However, we know that every Christian that runs from God does not lose their salvation, just like a sheep who runs from a shepherd does not remain lost. The shepherd finds the sheep, brings it home, and breaks it's legs to keep it from running. That's what Psalm 23:2 is all about. God "makes" you lie down. There is no "getting away" from God. God always knows where you run to, you can't get lost from an all knowing shepherd. The Prodigal son is a classic example of this. The prodigal son is symbolic of a rebellious Christian (Not an unsaved person, reason being he is a son of the father), who tries to rebel against God. What happens? God broke his legs and brought him back in the form of allowing him to destroy his life and lose everything so he could wake up and smell the pig food. The prodigal always returns home, BECAUSE he was already saved from the beginning. God is relentless in His pursuit of his kids.

    Adam and Eve were not sealed with the Holy Spirit as a down payment to let them know the rest (guaranteed heaven) is coming (Ephesians 1:13), nor was their sin removed, nor was God's wrath for their sin propitiated. If not only the payment for our sin was made, but also the wrath of God being satisfied, and ALSO the Holy Spirit being our seal and chauffeur driving us to heaven, please tell me how you can not get to heaven.
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  13. Our salvation is not dependent upon the timing of our death. Therefore, we cannot lose our salvation. We are either saved or we are not.

    Someone may appear to the human eye/mind to be a devout Christian and by appearances we may be convinced he/she is saved, but if they fall away at some point, then they were never saved to begin with. God is omniscient. He knows the heart. Man only "knows" what he thinks he is seeing.

    I agree completely with this statement as the Holy Scriptures specifically state that even when they see us in heaven with Jesus, when they are thrown into hell, they will not repent.

    I have many times heard atheists say they are not going to heaven. I have also heard many of them say they would rather burn in hell than live in heaven with the God we worship. I find that ironic. People choose their own fate. Some of us choose God and some of us choose hell.

    So many people can't accept hell as being real place because "a loving God would never send anyone to a bad place" But from their own lips they confess it is their own freewill choice!!!

  14. Wow. Some of this is a perfect example of mixing scripture intended for a Jewish audience with scriptures intended for we Christians. It is amazing to me that we continue to do that, especially "y'shua friend." Repentance means to "return." The Jews were to "return" to the program presented to them by God through Abraham. Repentance for the Christian is in 1 John 1:9. There is no repentance for the unsaved. What would they return to? Hello? No, the unsaved confess Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord by grace through faith minus works. They need Romans 10:8-13, not essays on "repentance." They are responding to the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
  15. Repentance is for everyone, Jew or Gentile, saved or unsaved.

    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    This was spoken to the Jews who had gathered on the Day of Pentecost.

    Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    This was spoken to unsaved Gentiles in Athens.

    Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
    This was spoken to the Church at Ephesus.


  16. Yes, we are saved by God's grace (I already said that.) But the Word makes it very clear that we appropriate God's grace through faith and repentance. That does not mean that we earn it, but that faith and repentance are the means God has provided for us to take hold of it. If that were not the case, then everyone would be saved, there would be no need for either faith or repentance, and the preaching of the Gospel would be pointless.

    Adam and Eve were perfect, made in the image and likeness of God, to be as much like Him as it is possible for a finite creature to be like an infinite Creator. They did not have the downward pull of a sin nature. Before the fall they did not need their sin to be removed or God's wrath propitiated, because they had never sinned. They had a unique and very special relationship with God, who had breathed His own breath (the Holy Spirit) into them to give them life. They had face-to-face fellowship with Him, and the Tree of Life (eternal life) was available for them to eat from any time they wanted. They lived in a perfect world, where the only temptation to sin came from the serpent - one of the creatures over whom God had given them authority and told them to subdue. Yet for all that, they still managed to sin, AND GOD DID NOT STEP IN TO STOP THEM BY FORCE.

    God does not ever, at any point, force us to accept Him. Yes, He can make it very uncomfortable for us to refuse Him, but He always allows us the choice. The "Rich Young Ruler" in the Gospels walked away from Jesus because he valued his wealth more than a relationship with God. Jesus did not run after him and beg him to reconsider; He did not lassoo him and drag him back; He did not hurl a rock at him and knock him out to give him time to think about things. No, He simply let him go: his decision, his choice, his loss. (And yes, I know you're going to say "But he wasn't a Christian." No, he wasn't - but he was one of God's covenant people.)

    As for the prodigal son, yes, I agree the parable is talking about Christians. BUT the father did not force him to return; nor did the father cause the condition in which he found himself. That was purely the result of his own bad choices. The father did not even go out to look for him or to try to persuade him to return home. It was only AFTER he had decided that he would be better off as one of his father's servants than where he was, and had picked himself up out of the mud and begun the journey home, that the father came out to meet him. If you are looking for a Scripture passage to say that God forces people to return to Him, this is definitely not it!!

    Likewise, the word translated "makes me lie down" in Psalm 23 do not mean "forces me" but simply "causes me."

    That said, I did not say that we can lose our salvation by "doing our own thing." I said, if we let go of grace then we lose what grace provided for us. We can only receive God's grace by relying on that grace rather than our own works: as long as we believe that our works are good enough to get us to heaven, then we are not relying on God's grace and don't receive the benefit of that grace. We cannot be saved by relying on our own works, or by keeping the Law. If that is true (and it is), then surely it is also true that if, having experienced God's grace, we at some later time return to relying on our own works or keeping the Law, then we have let go of God's grace and the salvation it brings.

    This is what Paul wrote to the Galatians:
    Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. v3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. v4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    Now I know that Once Saved Always Saved is one of those issues on which we all have our own opinions (which we all believe are based on Scripture) and on which we could go round and round forever, with none of us changing his/her opinion. So, I'm going to leave the conversation at this point, and simply urge everyone - whether you believe it is possible to lose your salvation or not - to "Stand fast therefore in the liberty with which Christ has made you free" (Gal. 5:1.)


  17. I am intrigued DOK. Why do you keep trying to make a distinction between Jewish believers and Gentile believers when neither the Lord, nor Jesus. nor indeed Paul sees any difference whatsoever between Jew and Gentile and have made it abundantly clear they do not?

    Ga 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    Col 3:11 "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
  18. Hi everybody,

    I note an awful lot has been said here so I will keep my thoughts brief. To repent of sin is to hate sin as much as the Lord does, especially that sin you find in yourself. Repentence is not an act you do, no matter how many times you do it. it is a WAY OF LIFE you choose. For the repentent a sin identified is a sin regreted and repented. There is no distinction. There is no such thing as tolerable sin.

    As to salvation regardless of what you think Hebrews 6:6 says THIS you DO know - the Lord is quite prepared to BLOT OUT names from the Book of Life!!

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  19. Don't be confused by Acts 2:38. Carefully read and understand to whom Peter is speaking. Read Acts 2:22 and 29-38. Peter, responding to Jews who asked him what they could do now that they had "murdered" their Messiah, told them to repent (return to the Abrahamic covenant), recognize their Messiah, and to be ritually, ceremonially purified in preparation for His return to set up the Kingdom. Peter is still ministering to Jews about their failure to recognize the offer of the Kingdom of God; Paul is saying "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." Not repentance, not ritual purification, not immersion in water, but believe. Confess Him as Savior and Lord now, in view of eternity. Acts 2 refers to those still under the Law and the traditions, looking (most not looking) in anticipation of the promised Kingdom of God on earth. Peter wants them to get right with God so that Jesus will come back then and there! Paul's letters look to Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord in anticipation of Heaven! What a difference!
  20. Copyright © 2000 James L. Melton, Bible Believers:

    "Another factor which is commonly ignored is the JEWISH factor. Every person in Acts 2 is a Mosaic law observing Old Testament Jew. In fact, they are all gathered together to observe a JEWISH FEAST called Pentecost (verse 1). A fair reading of the whole chapter (especially verses 4, 14, and 36) will clearly reveal that no Gentiles (non Jews) are present. Since this involves Jews, it involves a NATION (verse 36!!), not individuals. No one asked, "What must I do to be saved?" The question asked concerned the NATION of Israel: "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" (verse 37) Not, "What shall I do," but rather, "What shall WE do?" Acts 2 presents a NATION of people who come to realize that they have murdered their blessed Messiah and they're asking what THEY must do. It's a question concerning NATIONAL salvation....... Acts 2:38 is dealing with NATIONAL salvation. The Messianic Kingdom is still available to the Jews (until Acts 7:60 when they kill Stephen), so national salvation remains an issue until then."

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