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Heaven, do we really go there?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Cosmicwaffle, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. I was quite disappointed that one of my favorite sites gotquestions.org believes that Christians upon death are immediately in heaven, and that we go to heaven at all.

    The Bible clearly teaches in revelation that when we die we are in the grave until the resurrection, and that when we are resurrected we are judged and heaven and earth are remade. We get to live in New Jerusalem, not heaven.

    So why do so many Christians believe heaven is our destination?

    Yes I know everyone uses 2 Corinthians 5:8 which says

    "We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

    But that doesn't say we go to heaven when we die, that is simply saying it's better to walk in the spirit than the flesh, thus being absent in body but present with the Lord.

    John 3:13
    "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man."

    Revelation 21:2
    2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

    Why do so many Christians miss this teaching or completely ignore it?

    I am not saying this is a crucial issue, but it is one that bugs me.
     
  2. However I do now realize there are places in revelation where there are people in heaven... eh, nothing makes sense to me.
     
  3. I have a similar dilemma. I would like to believe that my grandfather is in heaven right now but I don't think he is. I think that we wait for the resurrection and judgement, but I understand there are verses that seem to contradict that.
     
  4. I still don't think 2 Corinthians 5:8 and the story of Lazarus and the rich man are enough evidence of immediate heaven after we die.
     
  5. I don't think that 2 Corinthians 5:8 means that we go to heaven immediately after we die either. I don't think that Lazarus and the rich man is a real event so I hadn't even thought of that being used to support that position. The one that generally gets brought up is the thief on the cross and Jesus saying :
    And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
    (Luk 23:43 ESV).
    Maybe the comma is in the wrong place? I've heard that argument before and think it's a good one.
     
  6. #6 Cosmicwaffle, Sep 16, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
    Yea because Jesus wasn't in paradise that day, he was in the grave
     
  7. That makes the most sense to me as well, but with our current translations that is the way it reads.
     
  8. Aww well, I guess it is just an error we have to live with. I love reading answers on gotquestions.org but it really bugs me when it says things like babies will be in heaven. Will they?
     
  9. Try this out and see if it fits.
    When we depart this life, our body is either buried or cremated.
    Our souls (the ones saved) go to heaven and await the resurrection of the body.
     
  10. The way I understand it, when we die, our spirits go to be with Jesus in heaven, but our bodies remain on earth until the resurrection. (It is the "absent from the body, present with the Lord" thing.)
     
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  11. I actually don't like GotQuestions very much. For the most part they're fine but there's some iffy stuff on there. Or at least compared to the views I hold.
     
  12. The resurrection of the body is important in Christian doctrine--Paul wrote this in 1 Corinthians 15:13-18: "If the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished"

    This is a passage on the reuniting of the body with the soul. However, this doesn't mean no one is in heaven. We know people are in heaven. We know the thief on the cross is in heaven (Luke 23:43), we know Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) and Enoch (Hebrews 11:5) are in heaven.

    John 3:13, as we understand, states an undeniable truth that Christ is the only one who ascended into heaven as he came from heaven. Though people like Elijah were never ascended into heaven, but assumed into heaven. But it also says nothing of us not entering heaven, but rather than only Christ was ascended.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  13. So our souls are forced out of a perfect heaven and back into our old bodies to be judged so that we can be in heaven? That doesn't make sense to me.
     
  14. Rev 6:9. When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
    could be martyred Christians only or it could include all.
    Rev_20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
    It seems that this is the first resurrection and at that point the souls raised would receive their new spiritual bodies.
    If this is true then yes, we go to heaven, but we wait for our new incorruptible bodies.
     
  15. I need a trusted resource where I can get sound biblical answers to questions about salvation and such. I've looked around and there are so many different views it makes me dizzy. :/
     
  16. Well use this forum as a forum and not a chat room and things might be clearer.
    ie read my post #14 before replying.
     
  17. At the risk of being 'snarky', try the Bible. Anything else is just going to be one persons ideas and how can you know he is not off planet with his understanding anyway.
     
  18. No need to get an attitude. I didn't see post 14 before replying. Perhaps you should have put it in your original post?
     
  19. It is so easy for us to look at one verse and base an entire doctrine off of it. I don't want to do that, I want to know what scripture as a whole teaches. And being the scrupulous person I am, it would be very hard for me to extract the truth.

    I'm mainly concerned about the gospel however. The life of a Christian with regards to sin.

    I just brought this topic up because I couldn't understand why so many believed heaven or hell theology. I've always thought New Jerusalem was our destination.
     
  20. Plus is there NO good online ministry that teaches the Truth? Everywhere I go I find conflicting viewpoints. Does NO Christian organization have the right doctrines?

    I find it hard to believe, but entirely possible.

    I just want a ministry who answers my questions about scripture.
     

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