Heart of the Matter

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Abdicate, Feb 6, 2016.

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  1. I direct it only to those that don't believe the word of God, who reject its plain truth, and replace it for man's theology which imprisons people. Many will take what I'm saying, which is literally the word of God, and make wilder claims about my motives, which are only to free people from the bondage of the devil through these religious lies called excuses. Most people reject these verses, which are so many they cannot be understood any other way, because they either love sin and don't wish to stop, or they don't know who they are in Christ, or they're not Christians at all. I don't care what they say about what I'm saying. I am quoting God's promises and why they work, and explaining why they don't work - sin.

    I don't belong to any denomination and I believe the word of God is true. God loves us, promises us the kingdom, and yet I see so many in bondage to the lies of the devil. The more I learn the word of God the more I see that we've already fallen into apostasy. God is not into 41,000 denominations. So, I went back to the word of God. I'm sharing this information to those who'll listen and believe the plainly written word of God. I won't reply to the nay sayers, that's their problem. So, I posted this verse for them. They don't like seeing people free and living in the kingdom, reading about miracles while not seeing any in their lives so they attack me so they don't feel convicted like I used to be. I know exactly how/who they are because I was there too once. I saw God moving greatly in people's lives, but in mine, so-so. I never lacked really, but I didn't have that relationship with Jesus I thought was possible as written in the word of God. To BE like Christ. Then I cried out to God, repented of my sins (including and especially doubt), then things started happening. Sweet precious promises, effectual fervent prayers, miracles of healings, prophecies, understanding, knowledge and wisdom unlike anything I could understand or articulate. The joy! The JOY! Oh the wonderful JOY of my salvation!! To drive and have someone cut you off and you giggle because of the love of God for them. To get rudely bumped in the metro without an apology and feel real LOVE for them that you bless them for the joy within. I NEVER had that until I returned to the pureness of the word of God without man's interpretation or excuses. I am free. I want everyone else to be free too. Only those with a teachable heart will the Holy Spirit teach. I want to learn MORE MORE MORE about Jesus and let Him use me to advance His kingdom for the glory of the Father! Praise Jesus!
  2. Show one that contradicts the other words of God.
  3. A lot of time yes, it's a lack of faith, but the real issue is that sickness is a result of sin - theirs or a spouse. Because of sin, the devil has a right to come in and exact judgment. Over and over and over the word of God says "repent and I'll forgive you and heal your sicknesses". Sickness is a curse.

    Proverbs 26:2
    Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.
    Exodus 23:25
    You shall serve the Lord your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you.​

    Deuteronomy 28:45-47
    All these curses shall come upon you and pursue you and overtake you till you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep his commandments and his statutes that he commanded you. They shall be a sign and a wonder against you and your offspring forever. Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things,​

    2 Chronicles 7:14
    if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.​

    Proverbs 4:20-22
    My son, be attentive to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Let them not escape from your sight; keep them within your heart. For they are life to those who find them, and healing to all their flesh.​

    Proverbs 18:21
    Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits.​

    Proverbs 28:13
    Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.​

    Matthew 8:13
    And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.​

    Psalm 84:11
    For the Lord God is a sun and shield; the Lord bestows favor and honor. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly.​

    Isaiah 59:1-2
    Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save, or his ear dull, that it cannot hear; but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear. ​

    There are sooooo many verses like these, but if people don't believe these, then what? After all Jesus did say:

    Luke 12:32
    “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.
    Mark 11:22-25
    And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”​
  4. I have already and more than one .

    My objection as i said was that it is not my prayers that doeth the work but it is God that answers.

    and the foundation of that is the Lord Himself who said "The words that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is in me HE doeth the work"
    If the lord gave all the glory to the father then we must give all the glory to the Son .
    For it is not I but Christ in me that doeth the work.

    For if I pray according to the promise and God answers accordingly .Who should get the glory ?
    The one who believes in the promise or the one who promised?

    in Christ
  5. Well brother, you can't get what you don't ask for. P.S. You read everything I said wrongly. I'll leave it at that. God bless.
  6. So do you believe you live a sinless life? And do you believe you CREATE reality through " POSITIVE CONFESSIONS" of your "words of faith"? And do you believe to be "divine", as one who professes to be saved in Christ Jesus?
  7. Giving a list of scriptures is not a presentation of truth .It is a list of scriptures that are true .Not the same thing.
    Faith in God comes by understanding the Word of God.
    It is more often than not a dire lack of the presentation of truth that does not and cannot lead people to have faith for their healing that is at the root of the problem.Which then lies at the feet of the 'preacher' not the hearer .
    Be that as it may a person may have faith and believes that God can heal them but the scriptures tell me that they also need to come to the place where not only God can give it but that they also can receive it.
    This too is neglected .
    One example is the Serophonecian woman who had indeed a measure of faith and believed that Jesus could deliver her daughter.
    Another? Bling Bartemaous.

    in Christ
  8. One glaring scripture which may oppose this is :
    2 Corinthians 12:
    7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

    If anyone should comprehend God's desire and promises to be healed, it is Paul. He pleaded 3 times directly. Grace was sufficient and Jesus' strength was made perfect, accomplished, finished and filled in Paul's bodily weakness.

    Who knows what injury or sickness this was, maybe damage from a stoning or one of his many beatings. Nevertheless, Jesus had a purpose to keep the infirmity with Paul so the message would come through with power, as Paul said not his power but the power of the Spirit and the Cross. What else could "My strength is made perfect in weakness" mean?
    Euphemia likes this.
  9. So you guys want to live the status quo, that's fine. I've given you the word of God, you're free to reject the plain simple understanding a 5-year old comprehends of the message for your own physical reality and philosophy understanding. Baiting me won't change what the word of God says. The three of you haven't asked questions to learn or grow; you've asked question to cover your current state and try and rob those weak in faith. Read and believe the word of God and reject the theology of false or baby Christians. I'm a sinner because I was born a sinner, not because I sin. I am a joint-heir with Christ and He has given us all the same Spirit He lived by so that we can be Holy as He is Holy. He's given us promises that will effect real change in the world through faith in what He did and promised to show we are real. If there was one verse only, one could argue against what I've presented, just as each of you have. But it's the same theme throughout the scriptures of the same promises and Jesus even amplified those OT promises. There are 100s of verses and you all pick one or two and wrap a whole theology around them to exclude or explain away the 100s. It's your choice. Explaining away a promise of God is your loss. But on judgement day you like all the rest of us will have to give account just like the servants given the talents.
  10. So answer the questions. You go on rants to belittle others who don't hold to your "word of faith" doctrine of deifying man and plainly denying Gods Sovereignty.. Big Moose gave a scriptural truth that squashes your belief system. And Gerald has as well! "Word of faith" doctrine is Christian Science new age thought wrapped all though it and around it.. Christ Alone be glorified
  11. They are God's promises, how can I do anything other than accept them? They are all and only His. If I accept and use them, how is that taking away His sovereignty? The King has given me the Kingdom!

    Luke 12:32
    Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.​

    I'm sorry you want me to be in a box so you can justify your condition, but I just show the word of God. Take it up with Him. I'm living in faith and by His word, pleasing Him for taking what He's offering, and I am greatly blessed by Him!
    Big Moose likes this.
  12. Correction:

    Romans 10:17 (KJV)
    So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. ​
  13. Paul wasn't sick.

    2 CORINTHIANS 12:7-10
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord three times, that it might depart from me. And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then I am strong.

    Galatians 4:13
    "You know that how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel to you at first."​

    What "infirmity of the flesh" did Paul preach the gospel through? Not sickness, he preached through the consequences of "reproaches", "persecutions", and "distresses for Christ's sake:" (v10), and that is what his "thorn" was, people who were inspired by "the messenger of Satan", persecuting and reproaching him.

    2 CORINTHIANS 12:7
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

    This demon would stir up those against Paul. This is why he was shipwrecked 3 times, left for dead several times, whipped, etc. He was not physically ill, he was physically attacked because of pride! Grace is unmerited favor, not unmerited curse. To say Paul was sick and God refused to heal him goes against all the promises of God. Pride comes before a fall, and that is a promise. Who executes the fall? The devil.
  14. But Paul asked 3 times for whatever this was to be taken away.
    Jesus says His grace is sufficient.
    Jesus says no, grace is enough.
  15. Ok, and I suppose you could see it that way if you believe grace is a negative. What else could it mean?
    crownoflife likes this.
  16. If all it took was to HEAR the Word of God then all would who heard the gospel be saved for they have heard it.
    But having ears ; meaning having heard it they hear not ;meaning understand not.
    There is a reason why its says faith cometh by hearing and by hearing the Word of God.
    "Behold I stand at the door and knock and if any man has ears to hear and opens the door ......"
    You cannot respond to the Word of God unless you understand it in some measure.
    Here is another reason why giving just a list of verses of scripture does not give any understanding.
    and is not a presentation of truth .
    If God has given a person the understanding then by the same way they were so led they should the lead others in the same way to the same conclusion or understanding they have.
    Men are LED tp arrive at or come to the knowledge of the truth . By HIM who leads us into all truth .
    It follows then if by the measure of your understanding you have the same measure of faith you should then lead others in the same way. That we all may come to a unity of the faith.
    For as faith comes by understanding to have aunity of faith there needs must also be a unity or common understanding of the Word of God.
    I have spoken to many moslems and they have all heard the Word of God. You should understand they are no more in a unity with me or with God than they were when I first spoke to them.
    So also it is with some christians but I have more hope for them as the Holy Spirit is in them and can so work and give understanding .
    With many though it is as on stony ground or by the way side . For the Word is stolen as soon as it is sown .
    With others it is among the weeds and a 1/4 it is on good ground.
    Jesus said" the Word of God is the seed" or rather the seed is the Word of God,
    If all that was needed was to hear it then the seed would bear fruit almost immidiately .
    But having no root will wither with the noon day sun.

    in Christ
  17. H@ve y'all got to the heart of the matter yet? Lol Love you brothers y'all be blessed. Amen
  18. I did, but it got hijacked... :(
    crownoflife likes this.
  19. We don't have to actually ask God. Our healing is already ours in the atonement. We need to receive it.
    Abdicate likes this.
  20. Before Jesus:

    Isa 53:5 (KJV)
    But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. ​

    After Jesus:

    1Pet 2:24 (KJV)
    Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. ​
    crownoflife and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
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