Healings?

Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by Kevin, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Glory to God

    Kevin that is Awesome!!! Glory, glory, glory to God.

    There are those that say things like "God is more interested in the soul than healing." It's almost as if God can't afford to do both or that a person will be lost if they get healed only and not saved. Give yourself Glory God!!!! Heal them all.


    It's the Goodness of God that causes people to repent. A father getting their Child back healed and giving their life to Jesus because God is so Good and powerful is just Awesome.

    Thank you for sharing this Kevin. I have seen/been involved in awesome healing miracles and people have come to late to convince me otherwise. We truly have a great, great God.
     
  2. Kevin, it has been my experience that people tend to believe what they want to believe usely based on their particular faith.
    By that I mean that in most cases a person who is brought up in a "faith healing" religion will tend to lean toward someone who has the gift of healing, tongues etc.

    But what do the Scriptures say? Many will go to Isaiah 53 for confirmation othat God heals. It is omportant to note that the Hebrew word for "healing" is (NAPHA) and can refer not just to physical healing but also spiritual healing. The context of Isaiah 53 indicates that it is spiritual healing that is in view. "He was pierced for our TRANSGRESSIONS, He was crushed for our INIQUITIES. By His scourging we are healed". Because "transgresssions and "iniquities" are the focus it is spiritual healing that is in view.

    Verses all through the Scriptures tell us that physical healing in our mortal lives is not guaranted in the Atonment. Healing is not always in Gods plan for us.

    1 Tim. 5:23....2 Tim. 4:20.....Phil. 2:25-27.....Gal. 4:13-15....2 Corin. 12:7-9....Job 1-2. These are but just a few. Remember John 11:4.....
    "Jesus said, sickness could be for the glory of God".

    We are under the curse of sin and as a result we will experience pain, suffering and death. NOW, does that mean God does not heal????
    NO!!! God does heal!!! The Scriptures tell us in James 5:16......
    "The effectual fervant prayer of a righteousness man availeth much".

    The problem comes, and I fear this is where you are coming from, are there people today who have the power to divinely heal the sick?
    In my opinion only, I say no. That does not mean that God does not heal because like you I have seen it done as well, but not by a man or woman. God gave us the Bible and He also gave us a brain. One must ask himself this question. IF, YOU had the ability to touch and heal the sick, suffering and dieing, would YOU be in a church or a stadium do it????
    I do not know about the people on this website, I can only speak for me. IF it was me, I would be running from one hospital room to another as fast as my old feet would carry me. But that is just me.
     
  3. Major

    Hello my friend.

    I do not believe I have heard that teaching of "passing on the gifts of the Spirit". Actually the fact that Simon wanted to buy the gifts is proof that HE WAS NOT BORN AGAIN. If he had been, he would have know that the 3rd person of the Godhead is not for sale.

    He saw what Philip did and wanted to do the same thing but he wanted to do it to make money. Does that sound familiar to today???

    The sign gifts given by Christ to the apostles were only for the apostles and no one else. Actually there are no apostles today. The only way to be an apostle was to have a face to face with Jesus.
    1 Corin. 15:8; Rev. 21:14; Acts 1:21-26; Luke 1:1-4.
     
  4. After reading this.

    Reading through the thread I would like to point out a few things.

    I have often heard that Isa 53 is just spiritual healing.

    Major:
    The times I heard this message the same verse was left out to make a point.

    Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs,(Choliy) and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

    chŏlı̂y
    khol-ee'
    From H2470; malady, anxiety, calamity: - disease, grief, (is) sick (-ness).

    This is not just some spiritual sickness, but has always meant physical sickness. The word Healed is not just covering something spiritual but both.

    Isa 53:4 Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted. YLT

    Major
    What scripture is that? Apostle means sent one. A messenger. Are you saying no more persons are sent to preach? The original Greek word never added special powers by God, just someone sent.

    When Peter healed the man at Gate beautiful, He clearly stated that it had nothing to do with HIM or his standing as an apostle.

    Act 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?

    It was faith in the name of Jesus that made this man walk. Has the name of Jesus lost any authority?

    Act 3:16
    And by faith in his name hath his name made this man strong, whom ye behold and know: yea, the faith which is through him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

    The apostles never gave themselves credit for any of the miracles. We do see places where God worked miracles through them and confirmed the Word with signs following. It was God, and God confirming his Word as true.

    His Word has never changed, and God has never changed. Nothing has "Passed" away as we would need something called scripture to believe that.

    The glory was not for the sickness, but that God healed. There seems to be a misunderstanding that all Healing is not immediate. There also seems to be a confusion on the gifts of the Spirit. The Gift of Healing is as the Spirit wills. Nobody has power in themselves to just heal when they want.

    The Word of God also has the ability to Heal. It is health to all flesh, God will confirm his Word with signs following, and faith in the name of Jesus takes authority over any sickness, his Name being above all names.

    Mark 16 tells us to lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Once again, this does not mean the Gift of Healing is in operation, as it is given to each man as the Spirit wills. Recover does not mean right away, as the same with the scripture in James. God shall rise them up.

    I have seen the Gift of Healing in operation. I have operated in it a few times. Healing is almost instant and the power of the Holy Ghost is just awesome, but the gift was used in ministry settings like it was described in 1 Cor 12. It is normally used to turn something around, and mostly used for those new to Jesus or the unsaved.

    Most miraculous healing I have experienced is by those that have stood firm on God's Word, not moving. It was a gradual process of getting better and better. These healings are just a powerful as some had been given to die.

    What scripture is that?

    Jesus, the Head of the church, made it very clear what his will was concerning healing. Not one time did he turn any away, tell anyone that sickness was teaching them something, and the question was even asked if it was his will to heal. HE ALREADY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION!!!!

    Luk 5:12 And it came to pass, while he was in one of the cities, behold, a man full of leprosy: and when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

    This sounds like many prayers today!!! Some think they are praying the Garden prayer when Jesus said, Father, all things are possible, if it by thy will, take this cup from me.

    Jesus already knew God's will on the matter, He did not want to go, but was obiedient unto death. Jesus was not having a healing meeting in the Garden though. We need to find the right scriptures for the right context.

    Luke 5:12
    A man comes to Jesus that was full of Leprosy The man says, Lord I know you can do all things. If it be your will, heal me.

    That sounds a whole lot like what Christians are praying today. What did the head of the Church say? What was his will?

    Luk 5:13
    And he stretched forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou made clean. And straightway the leprosy departed from him.

    Has our Lord ever changed? Is he different somehow? Does he have a respect of persons? Has any of his power diminished or his Name lost authority?

    NOT HARDLY!!!!


    The earth is under the curse of sin and death. It is called the curse of the Law, or man breaking God's laws and following after the author of sickness and death. Satan.
    Deut 28 gives a nice list of those things under the curse, and what happens when not obeying God.

    Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:


    Pain, sickness, bad things will come to those on the earth. You can be serving God in a mighty way, or just being a sinner with the rest of the World. Things do happen.

    God is not the author of these things, as we have one that came to kill, steal and destroy. (Kingdom divided will fall) Jesus came to give us life, and give it abundantly. There is more than enough power in the Word of God to heal anything, there is hope for anyone that will trust God, and know what his will is concerning healing. Nothing is impossibly broken, that standing and believing on the Word of God won't fix. NOTHING!!!

    Saying it's not God's will to heal everyone, or saying sickness is for God's Glory to teach us something will make that person a throw rug for Satan. We are not to give any place to the devil. NONE!!! The last enemy that we have victory over is Death!!!! Jesus Has completely defeated our adversary.


    Be blessed
     

  5. Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead
    Acts 10:41

    I have to agree w/ the Major on this one.

    The Apostles were the wintesses who did eat and drink w/ Christ and no one else.

    In fact:

    For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men
    1 Cor 4:9

    They were the last apostles. No more apostles would be sent.

    But God would send other messengers but not in the category of apostles. Because to be an apostle, you must have seen Christ. Even Paul, who was not w/ Christ during His stay on Earth, did see Christ, so even he was called an apostle.


    The original scriptures would end in Mark 16:8. The succeeding verses were an addition.


    Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick
    1 Tim 4:20

    Paul left Trophimus sick and did not heal him. Again I agree w/ Major that Healing is not always in God's plan for us

    Even if we have differences in beliefs WordOFaith I will also say God bless you WordOFaith :)
     
  6. Thank you~!~

    Thank you John_Jervis!! Thats what I like. Scripture.

    I don't want chew on everything you posted. You have scripture to back what you believe, and I admire that. Apostle just means sent one. There are pleanty of Apostles today, though we don't call them that.

    It is a ministry calling to normally set up churches and go forth into unknown and dark areas.

    Paul listed the ministry callings in the order of (Importance is a bad choice of words) In the order of authority.

    Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    You will find our Apostles hanging out in Muslims nations, and dark places. They have a gift from God to start a good work, and stay alive long enough to do so.

    I really don't think though the apostles is the issue. I think it's the healing question.

    So, it would take a enormously long post in a attempt to prove it is the will of God that all be well.

    Paul did leave Trophimus sick. Being sick is OK. Christians Get sick, but that does not determine God's will concerning something. We do have devils, and the curse of the law to deal with, pluse these flesh bodies that need showered everyday. (Should be showered)

    God did works through Paul, Paul had no ability to heal but by the Holy Ghost and the Word of God. Same Holy Ghost and word we have.

    I respect your belief. Just make sure everything lines up before discounting something. All of it has to fit. It's to easy to get fixed on what we believe and leave out the rest.

    I have laid hands on the sick and have seen them recover. I have seen people that were great christians die, even a little boy I was working with.
    I still know God's Will though, it's the same will Jesus had, and He has never changed.

    John_Jervis: My hope is that your blessed and I love you. Thank you for the scriptures. Just remember, if at any time you or a loved one does need healed. There is time to rethink some things.

    Just as Jesus told them that this daughter of Abraham must be healed, because she is a seed of Abraham, The Lord thinks the same way about you. You are also a seed of Abraham.

    Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

    Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    God bless you Brother!!!
     
  7. You are very welcome :)

    Same here.


    Right back at you :)


    And here's my wish to you:

    The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
    The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
    The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace

    :)
     
  8. Major


    I hope you can agree with me on more than just THIS ONE!!! HA HA.

    Really, this is not a contest for me. Just reading and talking.

    I like this site because there is a lack of confrontation over Scriptures. I hate that kind of back and forth argueing. If someone disagrees with what I post...God bless em!!!
     
  9. Hehe :D If you have biblical basis on what you are saying, I'll definitely agree w/ you

    Same here :)
     
  10. Major


    Hello John_Jervis.
    It seems as though I have rubbed our friend Word of Faith the wrong way. I appreciate your kind words. Mr. Word seems to be upset because I disagree with him and did not post enough Scriptures.
    Well, I am always up for leaning more and the Scriptures are the best way to do that.
    So I will see what I can do about more Scripture and better understanding of them.

    Let me start with the first item listed.

    #1.
    Quote from Word of Faith:
    Isaiah 53:4.…
    Surely he hath borne our griefs,(Choliy) and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

    chŏlı^y
    khol-ee'
    From H2470; malady, anxiety, calamity: - disease, grief, (is) sick (-ness).

    This is not just some spiritual sickness, but has always meant physical sickness. The word Healed is not just covering something spiritual but both.

    Isa 53:4Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted.”

    I agree with that. Isaiah uses a series of predicates with an assumed subject (Servant) who we understand to be the Messiah. He gives a detailed explination and Messiah is said to be despised (Hebrew from “bazah which means to disdain or scorn) and rejected (Hebrew from “chadal which means to abandon).

    He then draws a CONTRAST by describing this man of sorrows (Hebrew - make’oboth which means severe pains) and aquainted with grief(Hebrew - choliy which means sickness and or injury). The contrast is the most appropriate description for the Messiah who would be PHYSICALLY crucified for our sins and thereby suffer pain and injury.
    I believe that the meaning of this passage is that the prophet Isaiah is speaking for the nation of Israel generically. He states that in light of the common origin and physical suffering of the Messiah, in our spiritual blindness we would not value Him to be the King and Lord that He really was. But thank God we who are saved have come to believe that it was this suffering which gave us the power of redemption. Because of this act, we can be saved from our sins.
     
     
    #2.
    I stated that….

    The sign gifts given by Christ to the apostles were only for the apostles and no one else. Actually there are no apostles today. The only way to be an apostle was to have a face to face with Jesus.


    Word of Faith quoted:
    What scripture is that? Apostle means sent one. A messenger. Are you saying no more persons are sent to preach? The original Greek word never added special powers by God, just someone sent.

    No, I did not say that no more persons are sent to preach. I said that there are NO MORE APOSTLES TODAY.

    Acts 10:41
    “Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead”.

    1 Corth. 4:9
    “For I think that God hath set us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death, for we are made a spectacle unto the world and to angels and to men”.

    1 Corth. 9:1
    “Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are not ye my work in the Lord?.

    It has been universally accepted by most all Bible scholars that to be an apostle, according to the Scriptures, one must have had personally seen Jesus and been commissioned by Him!!
     
    #3.
    Quote from Word of Faith
    Mark 16 tells us to lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. Once again, this does not mean the Gift of Healing is in operation, as it is given to each man as the Spirit wills. Recover does not mean right away, as the same with the scripture in James. God shall rise them up.


    The original Scriptures end at Mark 16:8. Verses 9-20 which he did not list are not included in the two oldest manuscripts nor in the other ancient reliable sources. Again, it is pretty much accepted by most scholars that Mark ended his gospel at verse #9.
    Even if we accept that it is not omitted, we can clearly see that the verses describe a pattern for the apostles to preach the gospel as they go throughout the world. The sign gifts would validate the fact that they were indeed sent out and commissioned by Jesus.

    Please notice in the quote from above:
    “Recover does not mean right away”
    There is in fact 42 recorded healing listed in the New Testament. In every single event, the healing was TOTAL and INSTANTLY.
    My intent is not to ague a point but as has been stated, we need to be Scripturally accurate and that is my goal as well.


    #4
    Quote from me

    Healing is not always in Gods plan for us.

     
    Question from Word of Faith:
    What scripture is that?

    2 Tim. 4:20
    “Erastus abode at Corinth, but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick”.

    2 Corth.12:7
    And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me”.
    For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
    And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee, for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

    I do not think anything needs to be added to that. Ibelieve the Scriptures speak for themselves.
     
    #5
    Quote from Word of Faith
    “Jesus, the Head of the church, made it very clear what his will was concerning healing. Not one time did he turn any away, tell anyone that sickness was teaching them something, and the question was even asked if it was his will to heal. HE ALREADY ANSWERED THAT QUESTION!!!! “

    Agreed. That was never in question.
    The miracles and healing that Jesus did supported His Messiahship.

    I hope that this clears up any misunderstandings and I want you to know, Word of Faith that I love you. I respect your thoughts and choices. You seem to be a well learned man of God and I pray that you will always be standing with me as we fight against the tricks of Satan. We can not all agree on everything that is for sure, but we are all called to love one another and I wanted you to know that.

    Bless you!
     

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