Halloween

Discussion in 'Family and Parenting' started by WordTime, Oct 25, 2007.

  1. I am not trying to be insulting, not in the least. Neither do I intend to diminish the damage or suffering incurred by those who mess with the occult…but blaming Halloween for your brother’s involvement, if that link is tenuous or inaccurate, only serves to diminish your witness.
    It makes perfect sense that you have a personal aversion to Halloween as a result of your suffering, but it does not follow that Halloween, those who participate in it, or those who disagree with your feelings on it should become the target of your angst.
    My family has suffered because of alcohol abuse, but I do not demonize alcohol or those who consume it because of my own negative experience. The occult is negative in any form, but Halloween as a modern phenomenon is not occult. I completely agree that those who use Halloween as an excuse to dabble in such practices are making a serious mistake…but writing off the entire holiday as evil and satanic will not convince anyone to heed our warnings. We are much more likely to reach people in that regard if we demonstrate that we are informed rational people who can think clearly on the matter and make the logical distinction between kids dressing up, and munching candy…and the self-styled Satanist who sacrifices the family cat for kicks! Learning the true history of Halloween will only strengthen your witness…your current stance sounds biased and narrow minded, is that the impression you want to project?
    Children are not partaking of evil by dressing up and going trick-or-treating, though I would certainly discourage the darker themes. My children where cute fuzzy animals last year, super -heroes and a knight this year. They don’t like the scary stuff because I and my wife take the time to communicate our values to them every day…not just once a year.
    Surely your brother’s negative choices cannot be blamed solely on one annual holiday? Perhaps if you or your family had done a little more research earlier on, your brother could have been warned of the real dangers of rebellion, in all its forms. I’m not trying to discount the truth of your experience; on the contrary, I am trying to encourage you to actively seek deeper truth for your own benefit. Put your experience in proper focus and grow from it instead of being crippled by the fear and pain it left behind.
    If God is in control, then you have nothing to fear. By giving evil more credit than it is due you only empower it all the more. Fearful Christians who demonize Halloween, in my experience, usually provoke foolish skeptics to dabble in the dangers all the more just to prove how silly all us prudish Christians are.
    Having an intelligent conversation with a non-believer about the real history of the holiday has often provided me with a firm basis to discuss the reality of true evil, and how we can avoid it and make better choices. Chasing demons out from every rock is one of the fastest ways I know to undermine any opportunity to witness or be a positive influence.
    In love and respect,
    s.h.
     
  2. You didn't get my point at all...I do not hold halloween to blame for _____ involvement in the occult. I don't understand how my testimony deminishes my witness. I have been told otherwise, by people who KNOW me.



    I have never attacked any person who participated in halloween. I myself have been attacked for NOT participating. I'd like to have people understand that halloween isn't as innocuous as they believe it is.

    Something we have in common. But the occult & alcohol are not the same thing. One is a drug, the other is purely spiritual.



    Here we agree. But don't write off halloween as just an excuse to dabble. It is one of the higest holy days on the ritual calendar



    No not narrow minded...based in fact. Testimony of a witness IS at heart biased. If that is bias, so be it.



    I'm glad you can have a fun day to create memories with your family. This is not what I'm against.

    Thank you, I have done this.



    Again, you assume too much. There is NO fear here. God has allowed me to endure this part of my history so that He can use me. there is no fear, orpain from what has happend...only realisation of truth.



    There is just as much danger in discounting the power of evil. The truth of the matter is that this stuff is real, denying it doesn't make it go away. We need to know our enemy, not pretend it doesn't exist. This is more dangerous.



    done this too.

    Here I agree with you. this kind of activity is VERY damaging.

    Please know that I respect your decision to take your kids out, but also respect mine.
     
  3. Happy Halloween, everybody![​IMG]

    Tonight, I'm going to "Family Fun Night";):rolleyes:
     
  4. KitsapGirl, you are quite right…I clearly assumed far too much in my previous post regarding your personal situation…I humbly apologize. I re-read my last post and I can see it came off sounding quite negative and presumptuous; obviously I should not try to type responses on a short break at work ;-)
    Bad me!! Naughty naughty! Please forgive me.
    I did not mean to suggest your personal witness was ineffective, but simply that if we make a big fuss about how evil Halloween is…some people might not take us as seriously as we’d like. I have no doubt YOUR witness is superb, and of course I do not know you and am in no position to suggest otherwise.
    My comment was focused only on the tone of your post…you sounded a bit defeatist.


    Can you explain why you feel it is impossible “spin it to be Godly”?
    Many of our current practices regarding Halloween as it’s celebrated in America were actually initiated by Christians, and early attempts were made by the church to Christianize the day, much like Easter and Christmas. One could certainly argue that the attempt was less than successful, but why give up trying? I am aware that witches have chosen to celebrate the pagan roots of the day (kind of a pagan revival), but they are a small group…and we certainly have no reason to surrender the day to them without an effort to make some aspects of Halloween “our own”. Satanists and other occultists are likewise a fringe group and not representative of the normal population’s approach to the day. We should, in my opinion, be able to put a more positive spin on Halloween based solely on demographics.

    I do not deny the existence of or potency of evil itself…but I definitely question the way most people seem to define evil, and the degree of power often assigned to it by some Christians.

    I definitely respect your position on Halloween, it is my sincere hope that we can both benefit from further discussion on the matter. You are clearly an intelligent person who does not just lead with your emotions. Again I apologize for my previous post…I have obviously allowed myself to become a bit defensive as a result of some of my previous discussions on similar topics. I have encountered a number of individuals who seem to live in fear of evil, and even engage in superstitious practices to “protect themselves” while placing those practices and beliefs under the banner of Christianity. It is not my intention to judge you or attack you for your approach to Halloween, or lump you in with anyone else. You are unique and worthy of sincere respect, and I shall endeavor to remind myself of that as often as necessary.
     


  5. A good night of sleep helped me too. Halloween is probably the most puzzling holiday out there. The catholic church tried to absorb it by changing the focus from pagan worship to a day to honor the dead. (memorial day is similar in this respect) They were more successful with Easter & Christmas because they both center around Jesus. All of the symbols have successfully been tied back to Jesus...not so with halloween.

    The day in its self is not evil. What is done in honor of that day, both by folks who know what they're doing, and those who don't is what sickens me.

    I brought ____ into it because much of what he did on other days of the year, as well as on halloween, is done by people who do not know what they are taking part in, on halloween. it's seen as fun, and harmless.

    The vast majority of people participate as candy seekers who like to dress in character costumes. This is true.

    But the problem with that, is this...it is still putting the traditions of men above honoring God. Churches try, but fall short of honoring God on this day. The focus is on an "alternative" to halloween, (usually mirroring the pagan traditions) rather than at honoring God, and evangelizing. I have yet to see a "hallelujah festival", fall carnival, harvest celebration that is truely evangelizing. They are only halloween parties with a Christian sounding name. We are called to be the "light of the world", not alternitives of the world.


    (you wanna hear something ironic? I'm a special effects makeup artist...blood & gore is what I do best.)
     
  6. ok the kids don,t know and have fun,plus you get to see neighbours that you never see,plus the kids learn not to be scared of you.you have to take the good out of a bad thing.some of the parents scare me more than the kids lol.:eek:.a smile is a bonus.:)
     
  7. My plan tonight is to turn off the lights and not answer the door!:D
     
  8. I used to set up a bucket with bags of candy- each one of these contains tracts with the plan of salvation- perhaps next year I will have the time and resources to do this.
     
  9. i turn my lights of too,see which kids have faith.lol:)
     
  10. Seekinghokmah: Can you explain why you feel it is impossible “spin it to be Godly�
    Many of our current practices regarding Halloween as it’s celebrated in America were actually initiated by Christians, and early attempts were made by the church to Christianize the day, much like Easter and Christmas. One could certainly argue that the attempt was less than successful, but why give up trying? I am aware that witches have chosen to celebrate the pagan roots of the day (kind of a pagan revival), but they are a small group…and we certainly have no reason to surrender the day to them without an effort to make some aspects of Halloween “our ownâ€. Satanists and other occultists are likewise a fringe group and not representative of the normal population’s approach to the day. We should, in my opinion, be able to put a more positive spin on Halloween based solely on demographics.

    I do not deny the existence of or potency of evil itself…but I definitely question the way most people seem to define evil, and the degree of power often assigned to it by some Christians.


    I think this is a very good outlook.We give satan too much focus and credit instead of turning something into good, as Christians, I believe have a right to do.
     
  11. Smellycat,
    The Christian tracks are such a wonderful idea!
    My children have received them.

    Sorry, this was Brother Larry
     
  12. violet you know the ending,it is written in black and white.the more we go away from truth we go to lies.at the end the people believe the lies.so it may be harmless fun now,but in 6 generations time they might be saying,why didn,t you stop it,why lead us to death.we have to be responsible for our youth.
     
  13. Warning this is not ontended to offend but to express a PERSONAL VIEW
    Some view it in this context:

    2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
    2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
     
  14. exactly,correct brother the diffrence is all through ot,a women said to myself that the ot is only for jewish.
     
  15. The old testament is indeed written for you and I to learn from.
     
  16. All excellent points, perhaps the holiday itself is indeed irredeemable, but I am currently unconvinced. I still tend to think that avoiding the day entirely because of what some or even most people do may not be the best reaction. The historical aspects of Halloween are not all negative nor are all aspects of the modern American phenomenon.

    By participating in a positive way we stand to demonstrate we are open minded AND uncompromising regarding our Christian values…I believe it is possible to be both. (I’m not insinuating you are closed minded by the way)

    If we honor God every day, it no longer becomes an issue whether we succeed in honoring Him on Oct. 31st. We already participate in other secular activities, to refrain is one option, and positive participation is another. If we cannot participate consistently as a corporate Christian body I do not see this as problematic…few households or even churches celebrate Christmas in precisely the same way. It is understood that we celebrate Jesus birth at Christmas; all we need do is demonstrate that at Halloween we celebrate Jesus victory over death rather than fearing it or glorifying the macabre. How we do this can be unique to each individual but no less effective, though gearing our participation toward overt evangelism would be going too far in my opinion. Christmas and Easter aren’t really about evangelism either, evangelism is only a small part of the Christian lifestyle…one body, many functions.

    I can see your point about offering “alternativesâ€, many people see Christian rock music as just that; a poor alternative to a secular entity. But it is the secular designation that is key; Halloween is secular for all but a fringe selection of our society. If it is secular then it is not, by nature, diametrically opposed to Christianity.

    Your career choice is a prime example…I’m sure you are able to find many creative ways to express your values from within your position, in spite of the fact that much of the subject manner could appear offensive or macabre on the surface. If you can get beyond the surface in the field of SFX, why not with Halloween?

    My primary observation is that positive participation is a productive action, and avoiding the day is a negative reaction. I believe the former will have a greater impact and will provide a more effective witness. Failing to respect each other’s approach, however, would be most destructive…that must certainly be avoided.
     

  17. Boy I wish it was my career! I do the makeup for the hospital triage drills, and for our Resurrection Sunday productions. The makeup is just that makeup. I do use it to glorify God. When I do the makeup on "Jesus" I want people to see what he endured for us. If it looks real, I've done my job. My avatar is an example of my handiwork. When I do it for the hospital, I want it to look real so that the nurses react closer to how they would if it were not a drill.

    It's kinda funny to me...people are offended by, and even afraid of death, decay and lifeless bodies...but not afraid of what is really a threat to their souls...disbelief.
     

  18. Thank you1 I couldn't remember where to find these verses. This is how I view Christians participating in halloween.
     
  19. but in a gory way you worry myself with your picture,jesus is salvation not gore.
     
  20. You are correct...but it's the shedding of His Blood that covers our sins, and saves us. I worry more about people who are offended by the Blood of Jesus.
     

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