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Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Lockheart, Aug 23, 2009.

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  1. Hades

    So I've been reading about "Jesus going to Hell" today after I read the creed of a church I'll be attending tomorrow. I was shocked when I saw that because I never heard of that before. Apparently the KJV incorrectly translated "Hades" to "Hell" in every instance. I always thought when Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with him that he was referring to Heaven buy I've been reading that Hades in divided into 2 parts... "Paradise" and "Great Chasm" I believe. Jesus took everyone from "Paradise" with him to Heaven on the 3rd day and everyone in the other part of Hades waits for judgment. This is all new to me and I've been reading a mile a minute. So if I understand this correctly then NOBODY is currently in Hell? Everyone who does not accept Christ is in "The Great Chasm" but will be in Hell after judgement? I probably misinterpted all this and you guys are laughing at me...lol.:medieval:
  2. I think you are stating it correctly and I might say it is like a "holding cell" untill the day Jesus comes back and we are caught up with Him .

    And by the way Lockheart , no one is laughing at you . That"s what we are all here for to learn from each other so please don't ever feel that any question or respond is dumb or people are laughing ... Blessings to you .
  3. The Apostles Creed

    When I first saw the statement of Jesusdescended into hell” in the Apostles Creed I was at one of my friend’s churches some years ago & I asked their Pastor why they stated Jesusdescended into hell” when they recited the Apostles Creed (as they recite the Apostles Creed at worship service). I had found in my studies where Jesus preached “to the spirits in prison” (1 Peter 3:18-20) & preached “to those who are dead” (1 Peter 4:3-6) but not that Jesus “descended into hell”. The Pastor simply stated that he was instructed by his “superiors” to recite the Apostles Creed & did not have an answer beyond that.

    Now, a few years later, I still visit the same church from time to time & my friend is still a member & they still recite the Apostles’ Creed but they have changed the wording from “He descended into hell” to “He descended to the dead”. I think the update is a bit more accurate. The “Jesus descended into hell” idea is a plausible interpretation but (for me at least) it is still lacking sufficient reference for me to be convinced. This isn’t to say there may be some scripture I may have over looked or not looked into enough to further solidify this idea.

    1 Peter 3:18-20 (NKJV)
    18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.

    1 Peter 4:3-6 (NKJV)
    3 For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. 4 In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. 5 They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
  4. That is correct, Abraham told the rich man, "between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' (Luke 16:26).

    There are two Greek words for the abode of the dead. (Greek is the language in which the New Testament of the Bible was originally written.) Hell (Geenna in Greek, also called the lake of fire and the eternal fire) was made for the Devil and his minions (Matthew 25:41) and will be occupied by all the unrighteous after the last judgement (Revelation 19:20-21 and 20:10-15). There is no biblical evidence that anyone has gone there or will go there until after Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:11-16). This includes Jesus Himself.

    The other Greek word is Hadas (from which we get the English word Hades). This is the region of the dead. Before Jesus' ascension, the spirits of all people went to Hades. After His ascension, only the spirits of unbelievers go to Hades, while the spirits of believers go directly to be with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1-8). It is into this region that Jesus entered after His crucifixion (Acts 2:25-31 in which Peter quotes from Psalm 16:9-10). Ephesians 4:8-10 says that Jesus, "had descended into the lower parts of the earth." This may also speak of Jesus' visit to Hades before His ascension. Finally, Romans 10:7 refers to Jesus in "the abyss" while He was among the dead. After the final judgment, Hades will be cast into Hell (Revelation 20:14). Therefore, the longer answer is: "Yes, Jesus descended into Hades but not into Hell."

    Hope this helps,

  5. Help please . . . All great responses, but I have a question . . .

    Revelation 1:18 . .

    "I am He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold,
    I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

    How did He get these keys if He didn't go down there and get them?

  6. Thanks godbe4me. Ephesians 4:8-10 . . . That's the scripture I was looking for.

  7. I think those are figurative keys :D.
  8. Let us take another look at this passage, in the context of the whole counsel of God

    1 Peter 3:19-20 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    1 Peter 4:3-6 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

    First, let us put forth what we do know:
    1. After death there is Judgement (Hebrews 9:27); thus there in no preaching to the dead for repentance.
    2. Noah was a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5). All righteousness preached is of God, God’s word, the word…which is Jesus (the Living Word).
    3. We must never read scripture in a way that it contradicts itself. If it does, we must concede to a lack of understanding. This may be a seed God will hold to produce a fruit later.

    Ok, let us look at the scripture in light of what we do know:

    1 Peter 3:19-20

    This passage reference Noah who preached the word of God, thus this passage could suggest that Jesus preached through Noah to the sinful people just prior to the flood. Also, the passage “spirits in prison” could mean “spirits now in prison” as stated in the New American Standard. The word NOW brings clarity and would suggest that the act of preaching took place prior to their spirits going to prison.

    1 Peter 4:3-6

    Verses 3-5 speaks to the wickness of mankind, even us. Yet we (Christians) are saved by grace. However, grace did touch us through the preached word. Again, if the passage “preached also to them that are dead” really means “preached also to them that are now dead” as clarified by many other translations (i.e. NIV, Simple English ). This passage too would suggest that the act of preaching took place prior to the people being dead.

    Now if we consider the fact that there really is no reason for Jesus to preach to the dead, and the fact the Noah preached righteouness in Jesus stead (as do all credible Gospel preacher and others who truly relate God’s words to others). Does these passages clearly prove that Jesus preached to the Dead?

    Did Christ Go to Hell, I really don’t know. Did He preach to the dead, my belief based on my understanding of scripture..I would say no. However, I will wait to know for sure in Glory. I do know that He is my saviour and that is clear as crystal.

    Another Note:

    Ephesian 4:8, Matthew 27:52-53 and Shoel…invokes lots of interesting theories which I don’t have time to discuss at the moment. I do have a theories on how these may be related.

    Good Day and God Bless
  9. Whew, the whole counsel of God… what a wonderful thing if we could truly grasp this & a monumental task indeed. I think I’ll still be striving to my last day to “understand the whole counsel of God”.

    Psalm 119:160
    160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
    And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

    Acts 20:26-27
    26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

    I understand where you are coming from here, but I could say (hypothetically) I got off of work & afterwards I went home. If I stopped at the movie store after I got off work then got home, the statement is still true that “I got off of work & afterwards I went home”.

    Hebrews 9:27 (NKJV)
    27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment

    Again, I can see where you are coming from but I do not think it is conclusive. Definitely something I will be pondering, thank you for the food for thought.

    You have provided some very deep insight illinijag. I do not mean to “poke holes” in your reasoning, but only to suggest that it is the not the only reasoning as compelling as it may be. Your post seems to be very well thought out & I thank you for the time & effort in making your studies known. I think I will be discussing & studying the insight you provided for some time.
  10. Well this is some interesting info... thank you very much guys!
  11. In the Old Testament:
    31 times from the Hebrew “Sheol,” which means “the grave”
    In the New Testament:
    10 times from the Greek “Hades,” which means “the grave”
    12 times from the Greek “Gehenna,” which means “a place of burning”
    1 time from the Greek “Tartarus,” which means “a place of darkness”

    “Tartarus” is used once, in 2 Peter 2:4, and means “a place of darkness or restraint.” “Tartarus” is where Satan and his demons reside now. It isn’t a place of punishment or flames.
    Gehenna” means a place of fire, brimstone, and punishment (see Matthew 5:29-30, described in Matthew 13:40-42 and 2 Peter 3:7.) Note these flames are still in the future at the end of the world.
    Hades” means “the grave” (Acts 2:31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 20:14). The body of Jesus rested there and His saints are resting there now awaiting the resurrection.

    The Greek word “Hades” is translated as “Hell” in many English Bibles such as the King James Version. In Revelation 6:8, the King James Version refers to “Death and Hell [Hades].” It does the same in Revelation 20:14. Yet some English Bibles use the word “Hades” itself, such as the New International Version, which translates both Revelation 6:8 and 20:14 as “Death, and Hades.” Now here is the point; In Revelation 20:14 “Hades” (“Hell”) is eventually “cast into the lake of fire.” So as you can therefore see, “Hades” itself is not a fiery place, but is cast into “the lake of fire” (hell fire).

    So Biblically speaking, Hades means the grave. This is easy to prove from 1 Corinthians 15:55, which in the King James Version states, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave [Hades], where is thy victory?” If you look in the Strong’s dictionary, you will find that the Greek word here translated “grave” is “Hades.” By looking at the context, it is obvious that “Hades” means “the grave” because it is God’s saints who rise out of “Hades” when Jesus Christ returns. See 1 Corinthians 15:50-55.

    Therefore, “Hades” cannot mean a place of burning, for who can imagine God’s people writhing in flames as they await the resurrection? That would be absolutely ludicrous! Additional proof that “Hades” means “the grave” is the fact that “Hades” was the place Jesus Christ’s body rested in immediately after His death. Acts 2:31 reads, “His [Christ’s] soul was not left in hell [Hades] neither [did] his flesh see corruption.”
  12. Great post Dusty! Thanks! That makes things a little more clear for me. :)
  13. This is extremely disturbing and is unacceptable for any man to follow another blindly. Such should only be an act of a kid to his or her parents or man to Christ.

    There is much in the Bible that is not conclusive, thus we must search out the complete counsel and make a faithful assumption based on the preponderance of evidence. God even admonish us settle matter with two or more witness (Matthew 18:16, John 8:17-18); Yet, God knows that two or more may/can collaborate together and lie. In the end, I think God wants us to make a faithful effort by using the most faithful counsel, His word.

    2 Timothy 2:15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2 Timothy 3:16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Even then, there are matters not givin to man to know:

    Deuteronomy 29:29. The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    Good Day and God Bless
  14. I agree with this, I did not mean to suggest otherwise. Only "faithful assumptions" might get a little tricky.
  15. From what i have read in scriptures i see a difference between Hell and the eternal Lake of Fire. To me they are two different places. The following scripture seems to indicate that Hell will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire at the final judgement:

    Revelation 20 KJV
    11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
    12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    If Hell is going to be cast into the Lake of Fire then they must be two different places. You cannot cast something into itself.

    So i find scripture that supports the belief that Hell is a temporary holding place. It is the Lake of Fire that is the eternal place.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
  16. It appears hades is mistranslated as hell in the KJV.

    Strong’s Concordance (#86 hell Revelation 20:13-14)
    hell: 86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.

    Dusty posted some very good information previously on this thread you may want to take a look at for some comparisions of hades & hell.

  17. Below I have posted two different translations of hell (gehenna & hades, found in the KJV) & applied the Strong’s Concordance translations for each. I believe the Amplified Bible (AMP) breaks down the terms gehenna & hades very well. After the Strong’s Concordance translations I have placed the scriptures pertaining to gehenna & hades from the Amplified Bible (AMP) for easy reference.

    Gehenna: #1067. geena gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin (1516 and 2011); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell.
    Matthew 5:22, 5:29, 5:30, 10:28, 18:9, 23:15, 23:33
    Mark 9:43, 9:45, 9:47
    Luke 12:5
    James 3:6

    Hades: #86. haides hah'-dace from 1 (as negative particle) and 1492; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell.
    Matthew 11:23, 16:18
    Luke 10:15, 16:23
    Acts 2:27, 2:31
    Revelation 1:18, 6:8, 20:13, 20:14

    *Gehenna: #1067
    Matthew 5:22 (AMP)
    22But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice (enmity of heart) against him shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court; and whoever speaks contemptuously and insultingly to his brother shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire.

    Matthew 5:29 (AMP)
    29If your right eye serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be cast into hell (Gehenna).

    Matthew 5:30 (AMP)
    30And if your right hand serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your entire body should be cast into hell (Gehenna).

    Matthew 10:28 (AMP)
    28And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

    Matthew 18:9 (AMP)
    9And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the hell (Gehenna) of fire.

    Matthew 23:15 (AMP)
    15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you travel over sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes one [a proselyte], you make him doubly as much a child of hell (Gehenna) as you are.

    Matthew 23:33 (AMP)
    33You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell (Gehenna)?

    Mark 9:43 (AMP)
    43And if your hand puts a stumbling block before you and causes you to sin, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to go into life [that is really worthwhile] maimed than with two hands to go to hell (Gehenna), into the fire that cannot be put out.

    Mark 9:45 (AMP)
    45And if your foot is a cause of stumbling and sin to you, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter into life [that is really worthwhile] crippled than, having two feet, to be cast into hell (Gehenna).

    Mark 9:47 (AMP)
    47And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell (Gehenna),

    Luke 12:5 (AMP)
    5But I will warn you whom you should fear: fear Him Who, after killing, has power to hurl into hell (Gehenna); yes, I say to you, fear Him!

    James 3:6 (AMP)
    6And the tongue is a fire. [The tongue is a] world of wickedness set among our members, contaminating and depraving the whole body and setting on fire the wheel of birth (the cycle of man's nature), being itself ignited by hell (Gehenna).

    *Hades: #86
    Matthew 11:23 (AMP)
    23And you, Capernaum, are you to be lifted up to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades [the region of the dead]! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have continued until today.

    Matthew 16:18 (AMP)
    18And I tell you, you are Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the infernal region) shall not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].

    Luke 10:15 (AMP)
    15And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted unto heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades (the regions of the dead).

    Luke 16:23 (AMP)
    23And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    Acts 2:27 (AMP)
    27For You will not abandon my soul, leaving it helpless in Hades (the state of departed spirits), nor let Your Holy One know decay or see destruction [of the body after death].

    Acts 2:31 (AMP)
    31He, foreseeing this, spoke [by foreknowledge] of the resurrection of the Christ (the Messiah) that He was not deserted [in death] and left in Hades (the state of departed spirits), nor did His body know decay or see destruction.

    Revelation 1:18 (AMP)
    18And the Ever-living One [I am living in the eternity of the eternities]. I died, but see, I am alive forevermore; and I possess the keys of death and Hades (the realm of the dead).

    Revelation 6:8 (AMP)
    8So I looked, and behold, an ashy pale horse [black and blue as if made so by bruising], and its rider's name was Death, and Hades (the realm of the dead) followed him closely. And they were given authority and power over a fourth part of the earth to kill with the sword and with famine and with plague (pestilence, disease) and with wild beasts of the earth.

    Revelation 20:13 (AMP)
    13And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works].

    Revelation 20:14 (AMP)
    14Then death and Hades (the state of death or disembodied existence) were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

  18. I definitely agree. Very disturbing indeed :(

    The Jehovah's Witnesses has a similar belief and the same biblical basis. But if we would consider the verses given by Jaerod, we would see some good insights. That KJV verse was mistranslated. The AMP is really very nice.

    If you consider the whole thing in context, hell is regarded as a place of torment where the fire is never quenched. Let's try our best to avoid going to that scary place folks.

  19. Not at all. Biblically speaking, this kind of discussion is encouraged:

    Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD
    Isa 1:18


    Prove all things; hold fast that which is good
    1 Thes 5:21

    So relax dude, if someone would laugh at you, that person isn't a bible reader.
  20. A big Amen to that! AMEN Illinijag!!!
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