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Gog, Magog and Biblical prophecy

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Paull, Nov 29, 2007.

  1. Gog, Magog and Biblical prophecy

    I was wondering if any who are passing by would help me understand all of this:

    Gog and Magog appear in the Book of Ezekiel 38 It says:

    2. of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

    3. And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

    4. And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

    5. Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

    6. Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

    7. Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.

    8. After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

    9. Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

    10. Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, [that] at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

    11. And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,


    Ok, Let's just take this much so far. So far we see the lands of Gog and Magog with control over the armies of other nations. Magog doesn't seem to be a very popular land with God.

    First question I have. Is Persia, Ethiopia and Libya suppose to be against Magog? Or are they brought forth with the land of Magog?

    The name Gomer appears in verse 6 and is a referrence to the Cimmerians who are from modern day Azerbaijan/Russia. It appears that Gomer is part of the armies of Magog. Also among the armies of Magog is Tubal. Tubal refers to decendants of the Iberians which settled modern day Georgia. Next we see the nation of Meshech, which refers to the people of southern Russia (just north of Georgia). Finally the nation of Togarmah is mentioned which refers to the people who inhabited the area of modern day Armenia.

    I should mention that Tubal, Meshech, Gomer and Magog are names of sons of Japheth and Togarmah is a grandson of Japheth (Gomer's son) as listed in Genesis (chapter 10).

    It seems to me that the nations of Persia, Phut (nation of Phut who was a son of Ham son of Noah and represents Lybia or Somalia) and the Kush (Egypt and the Sudan, Kush is also a son of Ham son of Noah). Ham also had a son named Mizraim which also refers to the egyptian region and another some named Caanan which is the region that is modern day Israel.

    So, so far we have Azerbaijan, Georgia, Armenia and Russia who seem to be allied with Egypt, Somalia/Ethiopia, Sudan region and Lybia against the "and that is full of unwalled cities" (This term usually refers to the area of Iraq).

    ok so moving on:

    12. To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

    13. Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

    ok so three new names are introduced as people who, in my guess, are preyed upon by the armies of Gog and Magog. We have Sheba (Yemen and parts of Ethiopia), Dedan (Of the Syrian area?) and Tarshish (the area of the city state of Tarsus in Turkey).

    Sheba and Dedan are both from Ham and Tarshish is a son of Jephath.

    Ok, moving on now that the new characters have been introduced:

    14. Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know

    15. And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

    16. And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

    17. Thus saith the Lord GOD; [Art] thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days [many] years that I would bring thee against them?


    Ok, so we have the armies coming against Israel now after fighting many other battles in other areas (Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Yemen ect. . .) And it seems that they are defeated by Israel. What catches my eye though is the term in verse 16 "latter days" So this entire event seems to be a prophecy of a future war. Am I following this correctly so far, or am I off base here?


    Anyway, the rest of this chapter just talks about the battles and how fierce it is. Chapter 39 talks about the striking down of this weakened army of Gog and Magog and has them being burried in the Valley of Hamon Gog for all to see.


    Ok, What makes me see this as a prophecy is the term in 38:16 and the fact that Gog and Magog are seen again in the Book of Revelations. Where Satan gathers them to make war against the Saints and seemingly Israel.

    Rev. 20;

    7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

    9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    As far as I can tell, Gog appears to be the region of Scythia.




    What do you think of this passage? How do you view it? This chapter seems to imply to me that parts of current and former Russia will be used as an army for Satan against Israel and the Saints.

    Thank you in advance for any input. :)
     
  2. Actualy these are harder than they look. Original region of
    a nation may mean absolutely nothing, when they
    become a personification of a "Type" as a whole, which
    then may or may not be centered in the original region
    context???????????


    1) So when a specific nation is mentioned, and the original
    region is expected to fullfill it, fine, that's easy.


    2) When a nation becomes a "Type" such as the King Of
    Assyria, and the King Of Egypt in Isaiah, become
    personifications for Lucifer and Satan, or When The King of
    Tyre in more than one book of the Bible, does the same.


    3) Then there is the case of "Special Type" for Gog and
    Magog, as are represented in Revelation, which seems
    seperate from their being mentioned by other books.


    And then We have to see, if the evidence seems to point
    to their original region context again, or not:


    For example the Babylonian Mystery Religion, and
    Babylon the Great Mother of All Harlots, who made all the
    nations drink the wine of the passion of her immorality,
    does not seem to mean the historic Babylon.


    And then there is the question, if one also believes before
    great physical prophetic events are going to take place as
    a final and complete fullfillment,

    does that individual also believe in "Idealist" or spiritual
    fullfillments as well, before a final physical event,

    with Gog and Magog for example having meanings like
    "expansion," and "expansion upon the roof," if one sees
    them as gnostic in an "Idealist" sense, before a Final
    event ---such as in Revelation, in which we ask, what
    Territorial implications may or may not aply????

    But if in the case of Revelation, where Gog and Magog
    could represent these armies covering the whole face of
    the earth as a final physical fullfillment of battle,

    then would previous mention of them in Ezekiel, refer to
    the "idealist" expansion of consciousness gnosticisms, or
    not.



    May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.


    Mike.
     
  3. You will find that there are many interpretations in answer to your question...By many Preachers, Teachers...:D

    These are interesting topics, however be sure that this is the path or study that the Lord is requiring of you right now:)

    After studying prophecies and Revelations, the Father through His Holy Spirit told me to let it be... His desire was for me to develope that personal relationship between the both of us...

    The in depth studies were actually distracting me from His Presense...

    I'm not saying that this is His will for everyone... SO take this to Him in prayer and see what He says...:)
     
  4. Same here Beloved. After a few years of digging in this area it was like someone turned the light on. Walking with Christ and building the kingdom are my main focus now. That is not to say that these things are bad to look at but if I may say so no matter how careful the study there is room for much error. Many of these things have been shut up to our understanding and are being revealed with time.
     
  5. I certainly understand what you and beloved are saying. Biblical porphecy is not my main focus with regards to Biblical study, but I do find it to be a nice change of pace every once in a while. :)
     
  6. Excellent questions, well thought out and I gree with what you are saying. I am looking at the verses right now from a more physical standpoint, (which is not the way I usually look at Biblical scripture, I am usually somewhat gnostic in my interpretations), but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't getting completely turned around in trying to place people.

    Do you have any thoughs on my first question by any chance?

    First question I have. Is Persia, Ethiopia and Libya suppose to be against Magog? Or are they brought forth with the land of Magog?

    I couldn't really decide given the wording of the passage.
     
  7. depending on which Bible version You prefer ( I am not
    worried about us having the same exact wording to study
    it ); so what my NASB says is:

    "Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of
    Magog, the chief prince of Meschech, and Tubal,"

    "and say, 'Thus says the Lord God, 'Behold, I am against
    you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal."

    And Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, etc.., will all be drawn out with
    hooks, when God draws out Gog.

    Magog is the land of Gog. However the Hebrew says,
    "Gog of the Land of The Magog," becuase of the "He"
    infront of the Magog.

    and that complicates it. I would have to look at the
    "pointing," to see if the "he," is understood as a
    gramatical identifier, by traditional interpretation,

    But just because it could be understood as so, the
    Masoretes, still could have been wrong,

    And it could be Gog, of the land of the Magog, ( from
    the Hebrew ),

    Even though My NASB simply has it as "Gog, of the
    land of Magog."

    However, when looking at both words, Gog and Magog,
    are spelt the same, with the "Mem" being placed infront
    of the word Gog to form Magog.

    And "mem," can symbolise water, as if in keeping with
    Revelation, as well ----and Gog could be of all peoples, if
    Magog is the sea of nations, i.e., the waters or lands of
    Gog.

    Because again the Hebrew of Ezekiel 38:2 uses "eretz" for
    land, when it also means earth, and it first apears as earth
    in Genesis 1:1, and throughout the creation account.

    And "Mem," as water, can also symbolize "mind," or
    "will," and as such magog, can be the mind of gog,

    and therefore if thru their gnosticism, all the peoples of
    the earth so serve as the god and goddess, or the two
    categories of people who commit all their sorceries etc..,
    Rev 9:20-21, 21:8,27, 22:15

    But since Ezekiel 38:2 mentions Magog as the land of Gog,
    and Ezekiel 39:6 says how God will send fire on Magog, it
    is revelation 20:7-9 in using both names as the symbolic
    enemies of Christ,

    Revelation could be saying Gog and Magog, as meaning all
    peoples and nations, in their gnostic unity of evil, or as
    male and female halves of this unity,

    As the names in Revelation 20:7-9 seem to symbolize all
    who are lost, upon the earth.

    Because the Hebrew for Gog and Magog, in meaning
    expansion, and expansion upon the roof, could be then in
    Ezekiel, "expansion," and "the expansion upon the roof,"
    if one wishes to look at the meanings of the names, and
    see them as the ruling forces of gnosticism, which fools all
    of the earth ---when man thinks he is his own god,
    restoring whatever version of eden they think they are
    restoring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So if one likes to look at the roots of gnosticism, or not,
    they are all the male and female peoples of the lost earth,
    no matter at which kabbalistic level which ones think they
    are male or female, onlt to reverse this order time and
    again, as their interactions call for it ---because they all
    feel they are their own internal trinity, using whatever
    side of the coin they need to at any given moment male or
    female?????????????????

    I hope this has all been just as confussing for You, as it
    has been for Me, just kidding.:) I hope it has helped, even
    though I don't want to know how they divide themselves
    and their actions up at any given moment --beacue I
    do not care about their system(s) at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.:bible:


    Mike. :bible:
     

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