God's Work Sharing The Gospel Online Through Me

Discussion in 'Evangelism' started by hopeinGod, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. I am a member of a message board composed of those who suffer with tinnitus. For a decade, I've been writing to the same folks, on the site's Off Topic forum, conveying to them the same things in terms of the dismantling of absolute truths Christians view as imperative.

    Most remarks liken our view to naive sentimentality. To them, we must be willing to bend, to evolve into a very liberal mindset. Anything apart from it, is hostility and intolerance. While they want us to be tolerant, they are intolerant of anyone who believes Christ is the answer for the world. I've been accused of being homophobic, extreme right-wing, narrowminded, bigoted, and even mentally ill. And yet, I continue to present what I believe is both a compassionate and straight-forward view of our nation's problems.

    The group consists of a physicist, a chemist, a retired English teacher, a retired serviceman, a couple nominal Christians, a union leader, a painter, several academic types, and, among them, I am the lone student of apologetics and believer of fairy tales. When my pen pals write, only the Christian events that are the most newsworthy to journalist are cited, stuff like sexual perversion, money stealing, and the moronic announcements of TV evangelists.

    It's not easy to share with them the truth, i.e. that all we like sheep have gone astray, that the heart of man is desperately wicked. Why? Because agnostics and atheists refuse to believe in sin, while they busy themselves by redefining behaviors to make themselves feel better.
  2. I find agnostics and atheists more down to earth and willing to discuss theology, against their beliefs, than I ever do on conservative Xian chat boards. Interesting, eh?

    A bigot, racist, narrow minded whatever else was said, homophobic, etc... can believe it sincerely 100% but it doesn't make them any less a bigot, racist, narrow minded whatever else... I don't know if you are or not. I know the Church campaigns, against the teaching of the Bible, to ban gay marriages, or prevent them. I've made that argument in here somewhere already. It's not addressed. I dont' think there is an argument to be made that will refute why I conclude it's anti Christ, and unBiblical what the Church is doing today to that community.

    When you say "share with them the truth" is that not code for, "try to get them to believe what I do?" Because, I think you are a thinker, bright, intelligent, etc.... but I see nothing that gives me reason to think you can discern the truth anymore than you see I could. In fact, as I'm the ONLY person on this board I've seen admit they are wrong on anything, I'd argue I'd be MORE likely to find the truth as I'm not against change. But, that's just semantic observations regarding truth.

    How can you claim YOU know the truth?

    WHY is it that people that make that claim, when I show them violating scripture (when I can show them.... to be honest...) they rewrite the scripture before they rewrite their beliefs?

    None of this addresses you personally. <<< a disclaimer I have to use a lot on here... But they are valid points/questions all the same.
  3. Yup, we live in a world which firmly believes in Universalism - anybody who challenges that belief is branded a "traitor" to society. Jesus died for all people yet only a few choose Him - very sad. Anybody who denies that Jesus is the only way to God actually brands Christ as a lier.

    We need to step up the evangelism and preach Jesus is the Way the Truth and the Life - any other message is a perversion of the truth. I will keep you in my prayers brother - I know how hard it can be but we need to remain fervent in the faith and preach the gospel fearlessly to those who need it most.

    God bless
    Evangelism Forum likes this.
  4. Yeah, it is amazing to discover the disdain that uncompromising Christianity generates among non believers and the luke-warm.

    What I mean is that yes, you will be persecuted if you preach the truth of the Gospel because the Gospel message does include a recognition that we are all sinners and that our sinful lifestyles are causing a separation from God.

    Many are happy to hear and have a small amount of Jesus and Christianity so long as it doesn't restrict or judge the lifestyle and sin they have become accustomed to. A recognition of man's sin and depravity must come before the glorious grace of the Savior can be received and appreciated.

    We are not UNDER law anymore, but the law is still a powerful mirror that can be used to reflect our desperate need of a gracious and heroic Savior.
  5. If u r led by the spirit u aren't under the law. Where the spirit is there is freedom.
    If you live by the law u give up grace. I can go on and on.

    Sin doesn't separate you from god, your fear of punishment from God does. And u r only afeared because you haven't learned to love like He does yet. At least that's what we can see in scripture. I think there is a tendency to idolize sin, making it much more important than it is. You have grace or you don't. HE will change your heart, or He won't. You aren't changing anything. Stop dancing around sin like you can do something about it, don't worry about the sins, just run sincerely to God. That's what Paul did, that's the Gospel, that's how to be matured in Him. The more you look at sin, and make silly rules, do not taste, do not see, do not touch, etc, the more focused on sin, and less focused on God you get. If you can't stay focused on God not sin, don't teach others that trick, its backwards.

    As always you, is the generic use of the word, and hits all of us.

  6. As Christians we DO need to live in the light of what you have just said above, but when evangelizing to non-Christians, they will not be living as mature Christians.

    So I don't teach any Christian to focus on law or sin. We should always focus on Christ. But when engaging in a spiritual discussion with someone who has NO regard or apparent need for the Savior, the effective and biblical approach is to help them first recognize that mankind needs a Savior. If mankind is not lost, then why tell them about the Savior? If they are basically a pretty good person, then why would they need Jesus?
    Have you listened to the audio message "Hells' Best Kept Secret"?
    There are more details here: Oops the wrong Gospel
  7. Ok, great thoughts. Disclaimer, I am going at your thoughts here, not you. The thoughts you share are at least 500 years old. I am sure I will say "you" below, but its the generic sense. I can't seem to say we when I am addressing someone in chat, even though I try...

    Who said they have to be taught/preached/threatened with sin first? Is that somewhere in the Bible, specifically? Is there a section where Jesus leads someone in the sinner's prayer? I am not being flip here.

    Surviving free of hell is not why someone should be Xian. If that is why they got in the boat, they are already wrong and going to fail in their walk. Missing Hell is NOT the purpose of the messiah. However, I love that part of the benefits as much as the next guy. Last I checked, you received a reward for being His, coming home. You didn't avoid punishment.... so that none perish but have everlasting life..... reward. There is no burning in hell there except to the presumptive ones. You die, or you are resurrected, that's how the gospel is presented in scripture. "Be saved or burn" is mussolini fascism, 9-11 terrorist moves, not what a loving God does. I am not saying hell isn't real. I am saying it is not part of the gospel. If you come to Christ to escape hell, you are covering your own butt, not loving Him, nor neighbor, its selfish me me me me movement. 1 j 4 says that person that is so self focused doesn't know God and God isn't knowing him either.

    Its solely about love. Love is the full and complete gospel. Don't give me, soft passive liberal blah blahs. This is MUCH more difficult, action oriented than the sinner's prayer approach. This requires work, and effort, not some prayer and a magic bath....

    The gospel is, for God so loved the world....not, believe what I say you should or. will destroy you..... that isn't the gospel, its not john's message, nor Paul's.
  8. The message of the Gospel is even older than that, but it doesn't make it irrelevant. Cultural things need to move with the times but the saving message of the Gospel is timeless.

    There are two specific applications of this method used by Jesus:

    1. Samaritan Woman (John ch4);

    2. Rich young ruler (Mark ch10 v17-27)

    This method is not the "sinner's prayer" method. The sinner's prayer is often the final step in conversion. It is the response of a contrite heart that has believed upon the Savior and fallen at the foot of the cross in repentance and gratitude. There are many variations of the sinner's prayer and it can of course be miss-used, abused, manipulated etc...

    No, I don't see Jesus ever talking someone through a sinner's prayer. I don't ever push for a sinner's prayer. I encourage people to pray to God, to seek His forgiveness and embrace His offer of eternal life through what Jesus did on the cross.

    Consider the parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15 v 11 - 32) The son came to his senses "“When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!".

    Note the reason for his return was NOT "How could I have been so bad to my father? I am overwhelmed with love for him so I will return. If he happens to throw me some food, well that is just a bonus".

    As unsaved sinners, our initial motives may come out of a desire to be saved from the wrath to come, but as we seek out this God who saved us, His lavish grace, mercy and love should "woo" us and draw us closer so that through the process of sanctification we become less like us (fear, greed...) and more like Him (love...).

    Is it right to package up the Gospel into a pleasant lifestyle option, something that is desirable for the benefits of here and now? Did the Martyred apostles live this rich, full, abundant life of blessing? No, their hope was in the life to come.

    Asa Christian, I no longer live in "fear" but in love and faith. I am no longer a servant/slave, I am a son. Refer: Gal 4:7
    (Yes I still serve; yes I still fear God in the sense that I respect and am in reverent awe and submission...)
  9. Jesus was not shy in warning people: I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. (Luke 13:3)
  10. I think sin does separate us from God - the reason why sin separates us from God >
  11. *

    Errrr that's what I said. I'm so confused.
    It's the fear, not God. We separate from GOD, God isn't separated from us. GOD STOOD WITH ADAM AFTER SIN.
  12. Last I checked, PERISH means die, which gets in the way of eternal life, which is just exactly in line with my comment! Were you just agreeing with an aside, or was this said in disagreement somehow I can't fathom?
  13. No one said it was irrelevant. The born again, or burn in hell theology is about 500 years old. Go back before that and the talk was on man's deficiencies, lack of love, grow in love, and act in love. Watch the movie LUTHER. There is a guy named John Tetzel that put on shows to scare the skubalon out of the people to get money for indulgences. It was very fascist, oppressing, and held them hostage as sure as the terrorists that threaten a life/lives does. That's how the HELL FIRE preaching started. Probably not exactly when, but in that era. It was a gimmic used by a church as a protestant you decided was evul and needed to be separate from your faith/church. So you embrace their teaching, even though we are protestant because we opposed it. It's just incredible. If you are so worried about hell, you can't look at the prize which is God enough to chart a course to get there. GRACE says spit on sin and stop sweating it. Live for GOD, not to protect your own butt by not sinning. BORN AGAIN, started (as we teach it today) shortly after Wesley's time in America. Buy any Church History book and read it, they will support my claim. YES we talked born again before that, but it didn't mean the same thing, much as GAY used today, is different than GAY used in 1970.

    Well what you present is the picture that moves. The CONSERVATIVE EVANGELICAL fraction of the church today, FOR THE MOST PART, certainly not everyone, scream to keep to conservative ideals in the faith. But those ideals are rooted in the flavor or incarnation they preach as recently as 200 years ago. And that means they are LIBERAL ideals, as the previous 1800 years they weren't there, the thoughts were different. Of course telling a CONSERVATIVE with all their chest puffing, and screaming they are martyrs and are just doing the right thing, that THEY THEMSELVES are the ones who are liberal and changing things, really stirs up the pot. Until they can stop the emotional ranting, as a group, there is no reasoning with them.

    You should read more. Jesus taught the Gospel in about a hundred ways. :|

    Which, interestingly enough, had no threats of hell in it. Just showed her she was doing the wrong thing, something she already was convicted about in the first place. But, no hell.

    Which was the message, after salvation, you have maturation. It wasn't a salvific conversation. The young man was saved, or Christ was a liar. I can't see Christ as a liar. "IF YOU WOULD BE PERFECT...." Switched the chat from salvation/grace/atonement, to maturity.

    The parable of the sheep and goats, the ones that did the works were the ones that were saved. No hell there, just the ones who ACTED ON THEIR LOVE, were the ones that were saved. That is the MAIN message of salvation. If you will take the time I'll go through EVERY parable of Christ's and teaching in the Epistles and prove my point.

    HUGS, we concur!

    The point I was making was, there is no place, ever, that Christ taught, be saved or burn in hell. He taught love your neighbor. His teachings were in regards to how you live your life. The living the life was the FIRST issue, and those that lived the life, had an eternal life. He didn't threaten them with hell. So for you or anyone else to do it today is simply making Christ, and His Father a fascist as sure as Mussolini was.

    Well, first I'd say, for the sake of the parable, he was still the son, so he still had salvation. We are not talking salvation we are talking maturation. Same as the rich young ruler, RYR, which all are examples of being blessed are the poor in spirit.

    The word for POOR means, in short, dependent, a beggar, relying on others. So when your Spirit is poor, you depend on God's Spirit. Your weakness makes you strong. The prodigal son was still a son metaphorically -- thus he was still saved -- and as a son never lost his familial rights, proven that he was welcomed home. Jesus told that to the jews, the chosen people, who weren't exactly living right, and he was calling them home. When the feller went home, as RITUALLY FILTHY?UNCLEAN as He was, the father broke all the laws, hugged him, pulled him in the house, cleaned and fed him. The message, even though the law says to keep that unclean away from camp until it's cleaned, and that it would also dirty your house, GOD wants you home and HE is the one that cleans you, AFTER salvation, to make you perfectly clean.
    The RYR asked how to get eternal life, and Jesus answered the RYR said I've done that.
    Jesus loved this RYR and RYR is one of the few specifically named as one Jesus loved. So the kid was discussing life or death, and Jesus loved Him.
    Jesus didn't challenge him and correct his claim on keeping the commandments. JESUS RAISED LAZARUS FROM THE DEAD, (another Jesus was named to have loved) SURELY HE WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS FELLOW FROM DYING, and say something. He did to the woman at the well, and he didn't love her specifically by name as these others were mentioned.

    When Jesus says, "if you would be perfect" the word for perfect means mature. Jesus is saying, GOOD you are saved, but to be complete, be all you can be, finished, matured, perfect, you must abandon your former life, and come to me fully dependent (see POOR IN SPIRIT).

    JEsus said, to be finished, you must die to your former life and be born with a new life dependent on me. Thus, born again.

    So, yes, I LOVE your parable. I just find it means so much more than you expressed, I'd like you to see the full picture.

    Only because generations of oppressive threats from the Church has made that the thought you find first. That wasn't how Christ taught it, nor the apostles.

    But they lived their life full of loving neighbor. ESPECIALLY THE MARTYRS. TO paint any other picture, is simply revisionist history. Bible teaches you become that MATURE PERFECT picture above through works. Those works require you to seek them out and execute them, not trip on them as you from out of fear from sin.

    But, you do live in fear. All of your message is avoid sin. If you accepted Grace, you wouldn't be so worried over sin, and it wouldn't dominate your conversation.

    I'm not picking at you, just observing. If you are in Him and HE is in you, your life will be fulfilled in works of love, through faith, to HIS children and enemies as HE is the instrument HE chose to use to deliver His blessings. Not only that, but you would be filled with the Spirit, which means no longer in the Flesh, and His Seed, or Spirit would not let you continue in the sinful nature, nor let you even sin. That is every bit of it straight scripture. I don't put it here to accuse, just to sober up the romantic notions of the faith with some real life results. Way too many claim they have what they don't and will fail thinking they have arrived when they never started the race. They should hear this message, and have hopes to run it and not fail.
    covered_by_grace likes this.

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