Godly Miracles, Signs, And Wonders

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So you think that I am a bad (or good) catholic and/or charismatic?
You were not there when the Lord dealt with my sins!

My dear brother, it appears to me that you are a very fine Christian person who is trying to do their best in getting out the Word of God.

Our brother/sister "Mitsa" did not say you were a Catholic or Charismatic. He/she said clearly.......................

"No, Mr. Villa I think some are a bit confused by some of your doctrines, there seems to be a odd mix of the RCC and some charismatic type teachings that you seem to be putting forth."

I agreed with that observation based on what you have actually have written. That is neither bad nor good, simply an observation of things you have put forth.
 
Wow ! you sound pretty impressive! "startling results" you sound like the reason I left the WOF . The bible is written in Greek, so when someone who talks about how they "hear God" and all the great wonders that God works through them, begins to change the meaning of the Word, then you might be able to get past all the hot air and judge whether they are trying to deceive you. This I know, those who boast in how God uses them are almost never used by God. That's not how God works nor is this the group of people He uses. Man you guys give those like Ken H. and EWK a bad name, you should be ashamed to act in this manner.

Michael..............this is some really good advice given here to you!

Read what you wrote! You are bragging about what you did my brother and Mitsa is totally correct IMNSHO.

I encourage you to pray and ask the Lord for clarity and direction with peace and understanding.

Dear moderators...........this is a good thread and good work is being done because the Word of God is getting out there!
 
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My dear brother, it appears to me that you are a very fine Christian person who is trying to do their best in getting out the Word of God.

Our brother/sister "Mitsa" did not say you were a Catholic or Charismatic. He/she said clearly.......................

"No, Mr. Villa I think some are a bit confused by some of your doctrines, there seems to be a odd mix of the RCC and some charismatic type teachings that you seem to be putting forth."

I agreed with that observation based on what you have actually have written. That is neither bad nor good, simply an observation of things you have put forth.
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Beloved, if there is any confusion on my part, it is not on the Gospel. And I will be bold in saying this: the "born again" experience IS NOT salavation itself: it corresponds to Godly repentance, without which no one can be saved.
We must be conceived/begotten by the word of God, and that by the preaching of the Gospel that saves. Just as a child is conceived in the womb, so were we (YOU) conceived by truth: and that's why I can love God, for "...everyone that loves Him that begat, loves also him that is begotten of Him." It is not speaking on the only begotten son, but all who have repented, and are on their way to Him. Everyone that has received truth has been begotten (conceived) of God: and everyone that has been conceived must necessarily be born into the kingdom (come out of the womb). I repented of my sins at 30, and that experience was almost physically tangible, it was so real; I was born out of the water and of the Holy Spirit late in life: and that also was an actual experience. Beloved, no one could be as blind as I was.

Beloved, I want you to know that I am not offended, nor have been offended, by anyone on this forum. I am surprised that no one else on this forum has posted their experiences in the Lord! I was certain that many would have greater experiences than I: and my posts have been but a small portion of what I have seen! The Lord is GREAT..."...and worthy to be praised."

Every professing believer knows that "...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." But too many denominations are preaching about repenting and stopping there. We are called to also preach that, "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Let us not be as the Israelites who came to the edge of the Jordan River and saw the Promise Land, but did not enter in because of unbelief. Let us be, rather, like that generation that believed, entered, and conquered the Promise Land.

Beloved, walk in the fullness of the Lord.
 
What? why would I deny what I know is the proper translation, that to my knowledge all Greek scholars agree, again do you have any other source that would agree with your translation that you say "God gave you"? Lets look at these passages of scripture in context ;
Joh 3:3 Jesus <Iesous> answered <apokrinomai> and <kai> said <epo> unto him, <autos> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> again, <anothen> he cannot <dunamai> <ou> see <eido> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
4 Nicodemus <Nikodemos> saith <lego> unto <pros> him, <autos> How <pos> can <dunamai> a man <anthropos> be born <gennao> when he is <on> old <geron>? can <me> <dunamai> he enter <eiserchomai> the second time <deuteros> into <eis> his <autos> mother's <meter> womb, <koilia> and <kai> be born <gennao>?
5 Jesus <Iesous> answered, <apokrinomai> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> of <ek> water <hudor> and <kai> of the Spirit, <pneuma> he cannot <ou> <dunamai> enter <eiserchomai> into <eis> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
6 That which is born <gennao> of <ek> the flesh <sarx> is <esti> flesh; <sarx> and <kai> that which is born <gennao> of <ek> the Spirit <pneuma> is <esti> spirit. <pneuma>
Lets read vs 4 very carefully, in response to the Lords statement that one must be "born-again", Nicodemus ask how can a man enter his mothers womb the second time and be born. Not "conceived"
So it is your belief, that "gennao" is translated "born" 4 times in these following scriptures, but is to be translated "conceived" again in verse 3? No Mr Villa, you should really reconsider what you are trying to affirm to others. In fact no believer who has witnessed the truth of being "born-again" will take serious your assertions, and indeed this sort of error hinders your whole testimony to those to whom you would have consider your walk with the Lord.
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Mr. Mitspa, we're [almost] speaking the same thing...
interlinear: gennao; anothen
born:
is translated gennao: it has two definitions:
begotten or conceive; and, bring forth (come out of the womb);
again: is translated from anothen: again; and from above

ANY word nust be used in context with surrounding scripture, and/or the full Bible: and usage must be the one not/least contradictory (is there a better term than contradictory?).
I John 5:1 __ the words "begat" and, "begotten" are interpreted correctly (in accordance with other scripture);
see: Jn. 1:13, I Peter 1:23...we are conceived by the word of God (preaching);

Nicodemus did not understand the Lord, because he understood the first definition of the word "born" was to "bring forth" (come out of the womb). So he said, "...can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
That's why the Lord said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit (spiritual)."
A man is conceived in the womb and born of a woman (flesh) the first time; so must we be conceived of God and born of the Church (Spirit), the second time.
Mr. Mitspa, you should really ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding...or perhaps you only "believe" in the existence of the Holy Spirit, but do not "know" the Holy Spirit?
"The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell from where it comes nor where it goes..." You must be born "...of water and of the Spirit." Why do you deny the conception of the word in you, seeing it has brought you to repentance?
No, Mr. Mitspa, I do not worry about anyone considering my walk in the Lord: the words we preach are definitely for the world, but not to the world: they are directed to "... such as should be saved."

Beloved, walk holy before the Lord.
 
Wow ! you sound pretty impressive! "startling results" you sound like the reason I left the WOF . The bible is written in Greek, so when someone who talks about how they "hear God" and all the great wonders that God works through them, begins to change the meaning of the Word, then you might be able to get past all the hot air and judge whether they are trying to deceive you. This I know, those who boast in how God uses them are almost never used by God. That's not how God works nor is this the group of people He uses. Man you guys give those like Ken H. and EWK a bad name, you should be ashamed to act in this manner.

I am not boasting, I am not afraid to lay hands on the sick and I fully expect them to recover. My Pastor is Keith Moore, and you were commissioned to lay hands on the sick also. I have faith in the Anointing of God on my life, will pull on that as Christ dwells in our heart by Faith, and that be be rooted and grounded in Love.

As for your Greek..................... (I guess everyone's Greek) just saying.

I will tell you what the Lord told me.

One thing Mitspa is that it don't matter a hill of beans what the EXACT Greek word means, The important thing is What the Holy Spirit told you about it.

Hermeneutics will say different.

I'll spare you the scripture, you seem to know them. The Word is SPIRIT!

You know that.

Here is what He said, "I revealed Spiritual things with natural concepts. The realm of the spirit is just like the natural realm, as in the natural realm operates because of the things in the realm of the spirit. The natural realm mimics the Realm of the spirit.
Things in the natural are sensitive as it won't take much to kill your flowers and things flow or stop by words and action also in the realm of the spirit being sensitive. However the language at the time was not geared for a whole new world I revealed on Earth. Hence why I told parables.
"



Go look at the times where we are told it's a Mystery, go look and see now the church has been revealed principalities and powers. You have to give some room for a Greek Word to not have the ability to exactly fit perfectly when talking about spiritual things.

This is why the Holy Spirit teaches us all things that a man should not teach. A man sows the Word, God expounds and causes increase for all the Word is as a seed.

That does not mean we get crazy and go way out. If someone said God revealed this or that to them we need to at least examine other scripture to see if this can be so in some way. I understand we just don't accept things at face value, and should not.

There are a whole bunch of things that people have said to me that the Lord revealed and you just can't twist the Greek bad enough to make it say those things. I understand.

Both realms are very similar and it should not be that far off.

Take the word Saved and Salvation. Neither Word means Eternal life, born again, or saved as in someone knows Jesus. If you read the text though, they are used for a total package of everything Jesus bought and paid for us. Including eternal life. Some places like in Acts 4, Peter used both words in connection to how a man was healed. He was talking about healing and no other name given to men by which they may be healed, and set free.

Give a Brother some room at least to see if it's possible that what they claim God showed them might not have at least some truth. We all know in part, and not know much at all.

be blessed.
 
I am not boasting, I am not afraid to lay hands on the sick and I fully expect them to recover. My Pastor is Keith Moore, and you were commissioned to lay hands on the sick also. I have faith in the Anointing of God on my life, will pull on that as Christ dwells in our heart by Faith, and that be be rooted and grounded in Love.
As for your Greek..................... (I guess everyone's Greek) just saying.
I will tell you what the Lord told me.

One thing Mitspa is that it don't matter a hill of beans what the EXACT Greek word means, The important thing is What the Holy Spirit told you about it.
Hermeneutics will say different.
I'll spare you the scripture, you seem to know them. The Word is SPIRIT!
You know that.
Here is what He said, "I revealed Spiritual things with natural concepts. The realm of the spirit is just like the natural realm, as in the natural realm operates because of the things in the realm of the spirit. The natural realm mimics the Realm of the spirit.
Things in the natural are sensitive as it won't take much to kill your flowers and things flow or stop by words and action also in the realm of the spirit being sensitive. However the language at the time was not geared for a whole new world I revealed on Earth. Hence why I told parables.
"
Go look at the times where we are told it's a Mystery, go look and see now the church has been revealed principalities and powers. You have to give some room for a Greek Word to not have the ability to exactly fit perfectly when talking about spiritual things.
This is why the Holy Spirit teaches us all things that a man should not teach. A man sows the Word, God expounds and causes increase for all the Word is as a seed.
That does not mean we get crazy and go way out. If someone said God revealed this or that to them we need to at least examine other scripture to see if this can be so in some way. I understand we just don't accept things at face value, and should not.
There are a whole bunch of things that people have said to me that the Lord revealed and you just can't twist the Greek bad enough to make it say those things. I understand.
Both realms are very similar and it should not be that far off.
Take the word Saved and Salvation. Neither Word means Eternal life, born again, or saved as in someone knows Jesus. If you read the text though, they are used for a total package of everything Jesus bought and paid for us. Including eternal life. Some places like in Acts 4, Peter used both words in connection to how a man was healed. He was talking about healing and no other name given to men by which they may be healed, and set free.
Give a Brother some room at least to see if it's possible that what they claim God showed them might not have at least some truth. We all know in part, and not know much at all.
be blessed.
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"We live in two realms: the spiritual realm and the natural realm."


The spiritual realm manifests itself in the natural realm: whether good or evil.
God uses His word (preaching) to begat sons and daughters.
The devil tempts them that are begotten to abort God's word.

The natural realm (creation) testifies about the spiritual realm: it was all designed for good.
The Church and the Law, and established governments, affirm the existence of God
Natural man rejects what God has established in this realm.
Natural man affirms the existence of the evil one.
 
I am not boasting, I am not afraid to lay hands on the sick and I fully expect them to recover. My Pastor is Keith Moore, and you were commissioned to lay hands on the sick also. I have faith in the Anointing of God on my life, will pull on that as Christ dwells in our heart by Faith, and that be be rooted and grounded in Love.

As for your Greek..................... (I guess everyone's Greek) just saying.

I will tell you what the Lord told me.

One thing Mitspa is that it don't matter a hill of beans what the EXACT Greek word means, The important thing is What the Holy Spirit told you about it.

Hermeneutics will say different.

I'll spare you the scripture, you seem to know them. The Word is SPIRIT!

You know that.

Here is what He said, "I revealed Spiritual things with natural concepts. The realm of the spirit is just like the natural realm, as in the natural realm operates because of the things in the realm of the spirit. The natural realm mimics the Realm of the spirit.
Things in the natural are sensitive as it won't take much to kill your flowers and things flow or stop by words and action also in the realm of the spirit being sensitive. However the language at the time was not geared for a whole new world I revealed on Earth. Hence why I told parables.
"



Go look at the times where we are told it's a Mystery, go look and see now the church has been revealed principalities and powers. You have to give some room for a Greek Word to not have the ability to exactly fit perfectly when talking about spiritual things.

This is why the Holy Spirit teaches us all things that a man should not teach. A man sows the Word, God expounds and causes increase for all the Word is as a seed.

That does not mean we get crazy and go way out. If someone said God revealed this or that to them we need to at least examine other scripture to see if this can be so in some way. I understand we just don't accept things at face value, and should not.

There are a whole bunch of things that people have said to me that the Lord revealed and you just can't twist the Greek bad enough to make it say those things. I understand.

Both realms are very similar and it should not be that far off.

Take the word Saved and Salvation. Neither Word means Eternal life, born again, or saved as in someone knows Jesus. If you read the text though, they are used for a total package of everything Jesus bought and paid for us. Including eternal life. Some places like in Acts 4, Peter used both words in connection to how a man was healed. He was talking about healing and no other name given to men by which they may be healed, and set free.

Give a Brother some room at least to see if it's possible that what they claim God showed them might not have at least some truth. We all know in part, and not know much at all.

be blessed.
Yes words have meaning, and God intended us to understanding the meaning of those with which He had the scriptures written. So Im not even sure what point you think your making? Again God does not use people who love to go around boasting about how much God uses them, and it is people like you, who have caused many to reject the WOF. They see the ungodly pride and greed of many who claim represent the WOF and they reject any truth that might come from these teachings. I know the teachings and the conduct of those who laid the foundations of this movement, your behavior in NO WAY represents their teachings.

As far as power, I would take a simple child who knows the Lords Prayer and see greater power than 10,000 of those who boast in "how God uses them"
 
I don't understand fully your objections to "Word Of Faith" It's a term given to groups by those that don't care much for it. It was called "full Gospel" back in the day.

There is nothing wrong with someone saying the Lord used them in this or that. I did not give a long list of all the cases. I fully expect everyone to be used in similar ways and greater.

I take joy if someone says they laid hands on a person and they were healed. Praise God. There is absolutely nothing wrong giving credit to the Lord for the way he uses you or someone else.

As for greed, I am not sure what that means.

As for my post you did not understand, I would actually take time to read it because it's very understandable. If you don't read, then of course you won't understand it.
 
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Mr. Mitspa, we're [almost] speaking the same thing...
interlinear: gennao; anothen
born:
is translated gennao: it has two definitions:
begotten or conceive; and, bring forth (come out of the womb);
again: is translated from anothen: again; and from above

ANY word nust be used in context with surrounding scripture, and/or the full Bible: and usage must be the one not/least contradictory (is there a better term than contradictory?).
I John 5:1 __ the words "begat" and, "begotten" are interpreted correctly (in accordance with other scripture);
see: Jn. 1:13, I Peter 1:23...we are conceived by the word of God (preaching);

Nicodemus did not understand the Lord, because he understood the first definition of the word "born" was to "bring forth" (come out of the womb). So he said, "...can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"
That's why the Lord said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit (spiritual)."
A man is conceived in the womb and born of a woman (flesh) the first time; so must we be conceived of God and born of the Church (Spirit), the second time.
Mr. Mitspa, you should really ask the Holy Spirit to give you understanding...or perhaps you only "believe" in the existence of the Holy Spirit, but do not "know" the Holy Spirit?
"The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell from where it comes nor where it goes..." You must be born "...of water and of the Spirit." Why do you deny the conception of the word in you, seeing it has brought you to repentance?
No, Mr. Mitspa, I do not worry about anyone considering my walk in the Lord: the words we preach are definitely for the world, but not to the world: they are directed to "... such as should be saved."

Beloved, walk holy before the Lord.
What your saying Mr. villa is that this word, should be translated "conceived" in one passage (to match your understanding) and then the exact same word translated "born" in the next 4 passages of scripture. Not to add that you seem unable to find any acceptable (or not so acceptable) sources that would agree with your translation. On this, one of the most important and defining truths of most Protestant groups! Are you really surprised that some would disagree in absolute terms? No Mr. Villa, you are in error and are teaching error on this very important issue.

Let us look again at the text with the Greek:

Joh 3:3 Jesus <Iesous> answered <apokrinomai> and <kai> said <epo> unto him, <autos> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> again, <anothen> he cannot <dunamai> <ou> see <eido> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
4 Nicodemus <Nikodemos> saith <lego> unto <pros> him, <autos> How <pos> can <dunamai> a man <anthropos> be born <gennao> when he is <on> old <geron>? can <me> <dunamai> he enter <eiserchomai> the second time <deuteros> into <eis> his <autos> mother's <meter> womb, <koilia> and <kai> be born <gennao>?
5 Jesus <Iesous> answered, <apokrinomai> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> of <ek> water <hudor> and <kai> of the Spirit, <pneuma> he cannot <ou> <dunamai> enter <eiserchomai> into <eis> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
6 That which is born <gennao> of <ek> the flesh <sarx> is <esti> flesh; <sarx> and <kai> that which is born <gennao> of <ek> the Spirit <pneuma> is <esti> spirit. <pneuma>

Lets read vs 4 very carefully, in response to the Lords statement that one must be "born-again", Nicodemus ask how can a man enter his mothers womb the second time and be born. Not "conceived"

So it is your belief, that "gennao" is translated "born" 4 times in these following scriptures, but is to be translated "conceived" again in verse 3?
 
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I don't understand fully your objections to "Word Of Faith" It's a term given to groups by those that don't care much for it. It was called "full Gospel" back in the day.

There is nothing wrong with someone saying the Lord used them in this or that. I did not give a long list of all the cases. I fully expect everyone to be used in similar ways and greater.

I take joy if someone says they laid hands on a person and they were healed. Praise God. There is absolutely nothing wrong giving credit to the Lord for the way he uses you or someone else.

As for greed, I am not sure what that means.

As for my post you did not understand, I would actually take time to read it because it's very understandable. If you don't read, then of course you won't understand it.
I know the history of the WOF, and one can deceive themselves into thinking they are " giving credit to God" when really they are just trying to say "look at me" . I have said enough on the issue, I hope you will consider that your behavior on forums and in public in general, can do great harm to the truth, if you allow pride to overcome you?
 
I know the history of the WOF, and one can deceive themselves into thinking they are " giving credit to God" when really they are just trying to say "look at me" . I have said enough on the issue, I hope you will consider that your behavior on forums and in public in general, can do great harm to the truth, if you allow pride to overcome you?

Well, talking with other believers I don't consider it prideful. I fully expect believers to walk in some power of God. I don't mind it at all. Even if God just helped you pay a bill and you say what God did for you, I will rejoice with you. Nothing is small if the Lord did it.

I can see standing around though like telling fish stories where one Guy was used greater than another Guy, then another guy chimes in saying that was nothing, I raised a whole grave yard full of dead by God. I have seen that also.

More than once I have looked at someone and said, "I am anointed of God to help you, do you want help."

So, you think there be a way to share things without sounding like bragging?
 
Well, talking with other believers I don't consider it prideful. I fully expect believers to walk in some power of God. I don't mind it at all. Even if God just helped you pay a bill and you say what God did for you, I will rejoice with you. Nothing is small if the Lord did it.

I can see standing around though like telling fish stories where one Guy was used greater than another Guy, then another guy chimes in saying that was nothing, I raised a whole grave yard full of dead by God. I have seen that also.

More than once I have looked at someone and said, "I am anointed of God to help you, do you want help."

So, you think there be a way to share things without sounding like bragging?
The truth is that if you had real power from God you would know better than to go around boasting about it. Real men of God with Power, do not go around boasting about "how they have power" as you have done. I hope one day you will understand and then God will give you power, but you will need to learn it is never for you to boast to others.
 
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Beloved, "born again" means born again in English: but the words translated into the English language are "gennao anothen":
"...conceived from above...". They do not stand alone, for we have Jn 3:5 __ "Except a man be born of water and of the
Spirit, he cannot enter...".
I was born out of the water when I was "...buried with him by baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father...", I should, also, walk in newness of life.

I know you understand; and so do many in this forum. But what I am hearing is that I should reject what the Lord
has taught me and accept denominational teaching. Doctrine is fine: it is what keeps us saved if we
"...endure unto the end." But it is the Gospel that saves.
Surely Jesus has saved and redeemed all of humanity with His one sacrifice; but it is the Gospel that does save the believer.

"For by faith are you saved through grace; and that not of yourselves; it (faith) is the gift of God."
Is that the way I am to read Eph 2:8?

Grace is the promise, "For this promise is unto you..."; and the gift of God "...you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.": the gift and the promise are one: it is the Holy Spirit, without which no man can be saved.

Beloved, we shall go around and around all day, because I am preaching the Gospel; and you are using the doctrines that
belong to them that are saved.

Allow me to shake up your world Mr. Villa.

You have stated that John 3:5 ........."Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter...".

You are not alone in believeing that water baptism is essential to the salvation experience and then use John 3:5 as the basis
for their belief. I have seen this time and time again here. A verse picked out and used incorrrrectly to back up an opinion.

So then, allow me to ask this..........what in fact does it mean to BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT?

If you think that this is a referrance to water baptism, do you not agree that it would be a strange expression IF it did refer to that????

The context of what Jesus is saying here to Nickey, was not about the differance between natural birth and spiritual birth, but instead.....He was talking about how a man could be born from above OR born again.

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Beloved, if there is any confusion on my part, it is not on the Gospel. And I will be bold in saying this: the "born again" experience IS NOT salavation itself: it corresponds to Godly repentance, without which no one can be saved.
We must be conceived/begotten by the word of God, and that by the preaching of the Gospel that saves. Just as a child is conceived in the womb, so were we (YOU) conceived by truth: and that's why I can love God, for "...everyone that loves Him that begat, loves also him that is begotten of Him." It is not speaking on the only begotten son, but all who have repented, and are on their way to Him. Everyone that has received truth has been begotten (conceived) of God: and everyone that has been conceived must necessarily be born into the kingdom (come out of the womb). I repented of my sins at 30, and that experience was almost physically tangible, it was so real; I was born out of the water and of the Holy Spirit late in life: and that also was an actual experience. Beloved, no one could be as blind as I was.

Beloved, I want you to know that I am not offended, nor have been offended, by anyone on this forum. I am surprised that no one else on this forum has posted their experiences in the Lord! I was certain that many would have greater experiences than I: and my posts have been but a small portion of what I have seen! The Lord is GREAT..."...and worthy to be praised."

Every professing believer knows that "...faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." But too many denominations are preaching about repenting and stopping there. We are called to also preach that, "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." Let us not be as the Israelites who came to the edge of the Jordan River and saw the Promise Land, but did not enter in because of unbelief. Let us be, rather, like that generation that believed, entered, and conquered the Promise Land.

Beloved, walk in the fullness of the Lord.

I am glad you were not offended because I have actually grown to respect you and your opinion. We all have different things in our lives and we are all at differing degrees of learning and growing. I would be at the very bottom of that list my friend.

I do agree that without repentance, salvation is not possible.

I also agree that there is no confusion in the gospel story whatsoever and I do not believe anyone has stated that at all.

I also agree that we are ........"begotten by the word of God, and that by the preaching of the Gospel that saves."

Romans 10:17 confirms that as you stated ....."Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God".

Now, let me respond to this quote:
" We are called to also preach that, "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Allow me to open your thinking to the possibility that the "WATER" in John 3 that you quoted IS NOT WATER at all.

It is my opinion and conviction that the "water" Jesus told Nicky about was in fact the "WORD OF GOD".

1 Peter 1:23.........
"Being born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD of God which liveth and abideth forever".

To me it is clear that the Living WORD of God is the instrument used by the Spirit of God to impart the principles of a new life where the Lord Jesus is the center.

Villa.....when you read the synonyms for the WORD in verse 23 of 1 Peter 1, notice it is the Word of God, and then in verse 25 the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you. To me it is interesting that four different expressions are used here in the original Greek.
 
I know the history of the WOF, and one can deceive themselves into thinking they are " giving credit to God" when really they are just trying to say "look at me" . I have said enough on the issue, I hope you will consider that your behavior on forums and in public in general, can do great harm to the truth, if you allow pride to overcome you?

Well said my brother.
 
What your saying Mr. villa is that this word, should be translated "conceived" in one passage (to match your understanding) and then the exact same word translated "born" in the next 4 passages of scripture. Not to add that you seem unable to find any acceptable (or not so acceptable) sources that would agree with your translation. On this, one of the most important and defining truths of most Protestant groups! Are you really surprised that some would disagree in absolute terms? No Mr. Villa, you are in error and are teaching error on this very important issue.
Let us look again at the text with the Greek:
Joh 3:3 Jesus <Iesous> answered <apokrinomai> and <kai> said <epo> unto him, <autos> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> again, <anothen> he cannot <dunamai> <ou> see <eido> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
4 Nicodemus <Nikodemos> saith <lego> unto <pros> him, <autos> How <pos> can <dunamai> a man <anthropos> be born <gennao> when he is <on> old <geron>? can <me> <dunamai> he enter <eiserchomai> the second time <deuteros> into <eis> his <autos> mother's <meter> womb, <koilia> and <kai> be born <gennao>?
5 Jesus <Iesous> answered, <apokrinomai> Verily, <amen> verily, <amen> I say <lego> unto thee, <soi> Except <ean me> a man <tis> be born <gennao> of <ek> water <hudor> and <kai> of the Spirit, <pneuma> he cannot <ou> <dunamai> enter <eiserchomai> into <eis> the kingdom <basileia> of God. <theos>
6 That which is born <gennao> of <ek> the flesh <sarx> is <esti> flesh; <sarx> and <kai> that which is born <gennao> of <ek> the Spirit <pneuma> is <esti> spirit. <pneuma>
Lets read vs 4 very carefully, in response to the Lords statement that one must be "born-again", Nicodemus ask how can a man enter his mothers womb the second time and be born. Not "conceived"
So it is your belief, that "gennao" is translated "born" 4 times in these following scriptures, but is to be translated "conceived" again in verse 3?
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Mr. Mitspa:
the scrptures in Jn. 3:3 _ say what they mean, and mean what they say. YOU are trying to twist the scriptures to YOUR understanding: your education is good in this (the natural) realm, but seems to be a little lacking in the spiritual realm. Please read my posts carefully before you reply: and try to be impartial (I know how dificult this can be). You will not convince me of your religion by repstition.
I am not surprised by disagreement: I expected it from people who are ignorant of scripture: but not of one who professes to have so much understanding! I mean , you know Gree and Hebrew (you also said Hebrew, right?).
Read mu salt post to you...amnd again, try to be impartial.
 
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Mr. Mitspa:
the scrptures in Jn. 3:3 _ say what they mean, and mean what they say. YOU are trying to twist the scriptures to YOUR understanding: your education is good in this (the natural) realm, but seems to be a little lacking in the spiritual realm. Please read my posts carefully before you reply: and try to be impartial (I know how dificult this can be). You will not convince me of your religion by repstition.
I am not surprised by disagreement: I expected it from people who are ignorant of scripture: but not of one who professes to have so much understanding! I mean , you know Gree and Hebrew (you also said Hebrew, right?).
Read mu salt post to you...amnd again, try to be impartial.
Yes its just me and every Greek Scholar, and all the "born-again" groups in the world who dare to disagree with your "god told me"? Come on Mr villa you should really repent of this error.
 
It is my opinion and conviction that the "water" Jesus told Nicky about was in fact the "WORD OF GOD".

1 Peter 1:23.........
"Being born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD of God which liveth and abideth forever".

Villa.....when you read the synonyms for the WORD in verse 23 of 1 Peter 1, notice it is the Word of God, and then in verse 25 the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you. To me it is interesting that four different expressions are used here in the original Greek.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

The way I have seen it, the Word Washes and cleans. James said receive with meekness the en-grafted Word which is able to save your souls (Thinking, emotions, mind)

We are born from the Word (Peter)

Jesus came by blood and Water as witnessed by the Spirit. We are told the Holy Spirit was with Jesus in the womb. This would be a natural birth into a body, into this world.

To be born again, you have to also have a birth certificate born into the World the same way Jesus was.

As God gave the earth to man, to have a rightful place one must be born human. Jesus said the thief came another way and has no birth certificate.

So I see Water as in the effects and power of the Word to clean by comparing scriptures. I see why Jesus had to come as a man to make things legal. A man that did not sin, and took back what Satan took from Adam. A person must be born here from water to be a qualifying spirit.

could be reading a bit much into it. But Jesus comment that the thief came another way makes me think.

Blessings.
 
Yes its just me and every Greek Scholar, and all the "born-again" groups in the world who dare to disagree with your "god told me"? Come on Mr villa you should really repent of this error.
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Again, you are not reading my posts, except to quickly put aside what you don't believe and thereby twist everything to denominational understanding.
born: = beget, conceive; AND/OR give birth (come out of the womb;
again: = redo, AND /OR from above.

Jesus told Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon, bar-Johan, for flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but my Father
which is in heaven."
That revelation did not come from men: it came from tha Father: from above.
Jesus was asking Nicodemus whether he was speaking of himself, or did he receive it from the Father: "...except a man be
born again, he cannor
see (perceive, understand, discern) the kingdom of God."
What did Necodemus say? "We know...you are come from God...".
What did Peter say? "You are the...son of the living God."

I cannot believe that that is too difficult for you to understand: so it must be a willing rejection of me (hopefully, only me).
 
Allow me to shake up your world Mr. Villa.
Now, let me respond to this quote:
" We are called to also preach that, "...except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Allow me to open your thinking to the possibility that the "WATER" in John 3 that you quoted IS NOT WATER at all.
It is my opinion and conviction that the "water" Jesus told Nicky about was in fact the "WORD OF GOD".
1 Peter 1:23.........
"Being born again not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the WORD of God which liveth and abideth forever".
To me it is clear that the Living WORD of God is the instrument used by the Spirit of God to impart the principles of a new life where the Lord Jesus is the center.
Villa.....when you read the synonyms for the WORD in verse 23 of 1 Peter 1, notice it is the Word of God, and then in verse 25 the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you. To me it is interesting that four different expressions are used here in the original Greek.
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Beloved, sometimes the word can be understood as water; and other times, as Spirit. What was planted in out hearts was not water, but the seed of the word, which is Spirit: "...the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life."; It is by the Spirit that we are able to see the kingdom of God, and make a choice as to whom to serve.
Unfortunately, many hearers are immediately confused and cannot make a sound decision; others, decide (make a choice) that they will wait (they believe, but like their flesh) until a future time; others allow the word in their lives, but decide they have too many commitments; and others bear fruit unto eternal life.

Beloved, we must take into account that synonyms are used if the original word does not fit the context. In this case, both seed and word correspond to to the context: which infers the planting of something.

Walk holy before the Lord, Beloved
 
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Beloved, sometimes the word can be understood as water; and other times, as Spirit. What was planted in out hearts was not water, but the seed of the word, which is Spirit: "...the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life."; It is by the Spirit that we are able to see the kingdom of God, and make a choice as to whom to serve.
Unfortunately, many hearers are immediately confused and cannot make a sound decision; others, decide (make a choice) that they will wait (they believe, but like their flesh) until a future time; others allow the word in their lives, but decide they have too many commitments; and others bear fruit unto eternal life.

Beloved, we must take into account that synonyms are used if the original word does not fit the context. In this case, both seed and word correspond to to the context: which infers the planting of something.
Walk holy before the Lord, Beloved

Agreed. Which my point was, the verse is not talking about being immersed in the water of baptism at all!!!
 
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