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God ordering killing of children in ot

Discussion in 'Requests for Assistance' started by christiangirl7, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. I am wondering if someone can help me wrap my head around this topic; it causes me a lot of questions and confusion. Sorry for the typo in the title,should say in ot, not on
  2. #2 Euphemia, Sep 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
    My standard answer when dealing with antagonistic atheists is that our God is a just God, and His judgments are perfect---and just. Under the Old Covenant, God did not bind Himself against judging sin outright, and His mercy was poured out as He decided in every instance. But under this New Covenant we are under, He is bound by His restraint of judgment, for the sake of His Son who is building His Church. His mercy is being poured out and His wrath is being reserved for a future time. This is why we do not see God judging people or peoples in this era. But this issue contributes to many people misunderstanding God, and actually taking up a seat of judgment of their own and judging God.

    My belief is that God was actually being merciful to the innocent among the ancient pagan tribes who stood in the way of Israel. Innocent children would be spared growing up and being established in heinous pagan beliefs and practices, and even their own sinning by sacrificing to imaginary pagan gods, and would be taken into the presence of God.
    Angela333, 5Wolves, Siloam and 3 others say Amen and like this.
  3. Thank you, Euphemia. That helps. When you say that God is reservimg his wrath for another time, are you talking about the final judgement of those who are not saved?
  4. God is reserving His wrath for the time of the Tribulation soon to come that he will pour out on the unbelieving world (and the bible says that unbelievers will not repent), and of course His ultimate wrath against sin, death and Satan will come at the end at His final Judgment. All unbelievers for all time will be caught up in that.
    Ravindran likes this.
  5. I fixed the title Christiangirl7 :)
    Angela333 likes this.
  6. This is a subject that troubled me greatly also. After seeking God on this He has given me some understanding that I think may help you too. When a nation was judged in the OT, it was often asked that all be utterly destroyed, imagine for a moment that all the children were spared. When they grow up they learn of what happened to there parents, would they not seek revenge on those who destroyed them? In reality the hatred of this generation would be grater then the first, creating a greater problem then the original.

    Think about which option our creator God would choose for the greater good? Also remember that Israel was God's chosen people, He would not allow them to be destroyed by the revenge of nation in further generations, after all if Israel didn't survive those times then Jesus would never of been born and prophesy not fulfilled. It is possible that we would not be saved today without such judgments being passed back then.
    Please understand this is just my understanding on this matter but I hope this helps you in some way,
    Angela333, christiangirl7 and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  7. Abraham interceded for Sodom that God would not destroy that city even if there were only ten righteous. Abraham would have known Lot, his wife, and there four daughters along with there husbands would have been ten. Even if there was only one righteous person, God would not have destroyed Sodom.
    If any of the children in the Old Testament which were killed had any hope of turning out believing in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, none of them would have been killed.
  8. God dedicated things or people to "herem" destruction because they violently and steadfastly opposed His work over a long period of time. But understand that this “dedication to destruction” was quite limited in scope and not used frequently in the Old Testament. It was reserved for the spoils of southern Canaan (Num 21:2–3), Jericho (Josh 6:21), Ai (Josh 8:26), Makedah (Josh 10:28) and Hazor (Josh 11:11).

    And look at the history, Abraham was told that his descendants would be exiled and mistreated for four hundred years (in round numbers for 430 years) before God would lead them out (of Egypt). The reason for so long a delay, Genesis 15:13–16 explains, was that “the sin of the Amorites [the Canaanites] has not yet reached its full measure.” Thus, God waited for centuries while the Amalekites and those other Canaanite groups slowly filled up their own cups of condemnation by their absolutely wicked behavior which included every sexual immorality under the sun and the systematic wholesale sacrifice of children to their false pagan god while the true living God never acted precipitously against them; his grace and mercy waited to see if they would repent and turn from their headlong plummet into self-destruction.

    Not that the conquering Israelites were without sin. Deuteronomy 9:5 makes that clear to the Israelites: “It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations.” These nations were cut off to prevent the corruption of Israel and the rest of the world (Deut 20:16–18). When a nation starts burning children as a gift to the gods (Lev 18:21) and practices sodomy, bestiality and all sorts of loathsome vices (Lev 18:25, 27–30), the day of God’s grace and mercy has begun to run out.

    Just as surgeons do not hesitate to amputate a gangrenous limb, even if they cannot help cutting off some healthy flesh, so God must do the same. This is not doing evil that good may come; it is removing the cancer that could infect all of society and eventually destroy the remaining good. God could have used pestilence, hurricanes, famine, diseases or anything else he wanted. In this case he chose to use Israel to reveal his power.

    In the providential acts of life, it is understood that individuals share in the life of their families and nations. As a result we as individuals participate both in our families’ and nations’ rewards and in their punishments. Naturally this will involve some so-called innocent people; however, even that argument involves us a claim to omniscience which we do not possess. If the women and children had been spared in those profane Canaanite nations, how long would it have been before a fresh crop of adults would emerge just like their pagan predecessors?

    Why was God so opposed to the Amalekites? When the Israelites were struggling through the desert toward Canaan, the Amalekites picked off the weak, sick and elderly at the end of the line of marchers and brutally murdered these stragglers. Warned Moses, “Remember what the Amalekites did to you along the way when you came out of Egypt. When you were weary and worn out, they met you on your journey and cut off all who were lagging behind; they had no fear of God” (Deut 25:17–18).

    Some commentators note that the Amalekites were not merely plundering or disputing who owned what territories; they were attacking God’s chosen people to discredit the living God. Some trace the Amalekites’ adamant hostility all through the Old Testament, including the most savage butchery of all in Haman’s proclamation that all Jews throughout the Persian Empire could be massacred on a certain day (Esther 3:8–11). Many make a case that Haman was an Amalekite. His actions then would ultimately reveal this nation’s deep hatred for God, manifested toward the people through whom God had chosen to bless the whole world.

    In Numbers 25:16–18 and 31:1–18 Israel was also told to conduct a war of extermination against all in Midian, with the exception of the prepubescent girls, because the Midianites had led them into idolatry and immorality. It was not contact with foreigners per se that was the problem, but the threat to Israel’s relationship with the Lord. The divine command, therefore, was to break Midian’s strength by killing all the male children and also the women who had slept with a man and who could still become mothers.

    The texts of Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 7:1–2 and Psalm 106:34 are further examples of the principle of ḥerem, dedicating the residents of Canaan to total destruction as an involuntary offering to God. See also comment on NUMBERS 25:7–13; 2 KINGS 6:21–23.

    5Wolves, David S and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  9. Children are always righteous. This was a discussion on adults able to choose to hate or love sin.
  10. Firstly you have to understand that God is not dumb and does not hate cute children that He made cute. There is scripture on God sparing all under 19's in the desert at one point. So many believe that the age of accountability is 19 as a result.

    God rescues children. Only God can kill and not be a murderer. All children go straight to heaven. Though to the naked eye it seems as though God is evil...as for example they died with the wicked in Noah's flood.

    It is a common belief among many Christians that kids and mentally handicapped get a chance in the millenium to be tested under ''better / fairer'' conditions. As scripture says the devil is released back onto earth to tempt mankind for the last time. So why would He do that for kids / people who survive the tribulation and not for all those in heaven who never had the chance to be tested properly either?

    There is then also strong case to be made for God always killing people swiftly. Even the most wicked. So for a moment forget children, think about the worst of the worst. Note how God never used a brazen bull or any torture method to kill the wicked. The worst is perhaps drowning. That is bad don't get me wrong, but the point remains that God could have done worse. Even the fires of Sodom, if you read the scripture there you will see it says the fires rose high, meaning God destroyed Sodom properly. Unlike Sadam Husein firing unrefined chemicals attached to missile heads at the Kurds. They were suffering for weeks. The plagues God sent on Egypt increased in severity and were only meant as harsh - harsher warnings as God really needed them to listen and let his people go. It was not His intent to torture them. Even what is coming in the tribulation needs to be understood in this light. It is not God torturing people on earth. It is God warning those who still have hope of accepting Him that they must wake up and smell the coffee. There is an interesting trumpet that is blown. One that brings sores on only those who have the mark of the beast. Clearly showing that God wants to warn those who don't have the mark. There is a reason behind it, just like the plagues. It brings God no pleaseure to bring destruction on anyone!!! Not just kids Jonah 4:2. He prayed to theLord, “Isn’t this what I said,Lord, when I was still at home? That is what I tried to forestall by fleeing to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

    Perhaps the most appearance of evil scripture / argument raised against God in the OT on this subject is : Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

    On face value this seems terrible. Kill the boys / rape and slavery for the virgin girls. What is funny is that god bashers reveal their hypocrisy when they quote this verse. They claim to hate what is evil and hence exposing God for evil, makes them righteous and God...evil. Now for someone to know this verse means they have to know their bible. Now if someone knows their bible...they...should...know that God enforced the harshest laws ever seen by mankind on the Jews. No Jew would be allowed to rape a foreigner without being stoned to death for it. They were instructed to love the foreigner that resides with them as though they were native born Lev 19:34. The boys had to be killed as it was a known fact back in that day and even today that boys grow up to be men who get revenge / they grow up consumed with the idea. These god bashers are intentionaly omitting scripture / ie quoting a half truth / ie they are liars just like the devil.
    David S likes this.
  11. I think you are going have to explain that to God.
  12. I can promise you that Abraham did not even think to ask about the children. It was a given between him and God that they would go to heaven. They both knew that children did not dictate the order of things in the city. Like the animals they were helpless victims of the wicked.
  13. The Lord God would never kill the righteous with the wicked, that is simply not smart thinking, which is why he led Lot and his family out of Sodom.
  14. CCW, I am not going to argue God sending babies to hell with you. If you believe this please start a thread and explain your belief. I don't believe there is single Christian here that will agree with you. The oness is on you to explain yourself.
  15. All I will say is that if we look at Nineveh we see God saying this: Jonah 4:11 And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left--and also many animals?
  16. Thank you, Dave. I really appreciate that.
    David S likes this.
  17. "The Lord identified himself to me and said, 'I'm Jesus. I build nations and I tear them down. It is better for a nation to have never known me than to have known me and turned their back from me.' I thought all roads led to Rome, but He explained to me that He was the only way to know God. I accepted Him and He said, 'I am going to send you to the people.' Then, he gave me a vision of thousands of people and they were wandering around in a maze of darkness with no direction or purpose for their lives. He showed me that there was a light on me that He was placing on my life . . . and that it was Jesus Christ and I was going to bear the Word of the Lord." -Lonnie Frisbee's Testimony (Anaheim: Vineyard Ministry International: Tape 003).
  18. Why would a mere mortal soul need explain what God through his son explained to us? In order to see the Kingdom we were told we need become like little children.
    If we need become like little children what then is the problem with someone saying children are always righteous? There is no set age of accountability for one's sin in scripture.
    And in the Psalms when David was saying in sin did his mother conceive him that is exactly what he was speaking of and to. The adultery his mother Nitzevet did commit when she did conceive David. The sin of adultery.
    When God knitted us together in the womb, God, who knows no sin, did not then knit us together as sinners. Not when scripture tells us the sins of the father do not pass unto the sons. Unless one wishes to argue God lied.
  19. #19 Tad, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
    A new Heavens and a new Earth - Isaiah 65:17, Isaiah 66:22, 2 Peter 3:8-12, Revelation 21:1
    Every current thing gets destroyed. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? Luke 12:49 We need to understand that this is not "it" This whole system of pain, decay and death is simply not "it" God has promised that there will be no more pain, decay or death - Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 21:4 And that is "it" ...the destruction of this current physical state is, as it were... a gift... for the devil... for God is infinitely righteous. Yes, the devil will "enjoy" his fill of destruction, in the lake of fire. The devil is merely the created enemy. The decay of a babies body is nothing, this flesh is merely clothes. The child tormented/abused by one truly going to the lake of fire will be able to view that one being tormented in the lake of fire, if need be. For they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses that have transgressed against God; for their worm shall die not, neither shall their fire be quenched. Isaiah 66:24
    Everyone gets resurrected - Revelation 20:4-5, Revelation 20:13 - everyone from all time.
    Everyone gets judged - Revelation 20:13-15
    So most definitely innocent babies that got killed, in the old testament, due to the evil of their parents/times, would not ultimately go to the lake of fire, but would be able to enjoy their new bodies, and the new heavens and new earth, where lions eat grass, and bears eat grass, snakes eat dust, and there's no more pain decay or death.
    Waggles likes this.

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