God is not the author of Evil

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by mikeOfChrist, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. God is not the author of Evil

    In reference to Isaiah 45:6-7: God is not the Author of evil; Satan is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    However, God who is perfect in Holiness, and Justice ---must by His very perfection provide every oportunity to Save the lost ---if they only be willing!!! Therefore God must "Administer" the system of evil which satan has introduced ( and therefore creates the fair administration of it ) -----so that 1) satan is restrained in all his activities, and can go so far, and none farther so that, in his attempts to damn all to hell, ( God can so "rescue" those who seek God, thru repentance ---and obviously satan has to be prevented from killing such as these on the spot, etc.., And so therefore must be restrained!!!!!!! ), and 2) God must also be able to have his Angels, administer the "Scale or degree" of just how much trouble and punishment the lost "Get Themselves Into," while here on earth, so that there are limmits forced upon their activities ---so that God can manage the best possible situation for "everyone," while we ( if lost, or severly backslidden ) create this hell on earth "of sin," while deciding between God and Hell ( or God, vrs our backslidden nature -if saved, but refusing to be obedient to God's truths for our lives, while we go thru such a state of rebellion ), and 3) And since there is more going on behind the scenes ---within the "conscious," for good or evil, of the true "Inner Man" of us all ----God is at times, when the human race chooses such pure evil, obligated to allow the "Acceleration" of judgments to occur ----and inspite of appearances, as seen, or understood, by anyone or everyone; because to their "Inner Man's" actual understanding; indeed everyone has had the chance to repent ---among all those involved in a particular example ( in/or just before, if not long before ) a particular devistation ---in which the "Saved" of cource are still preseved, and saved ----but are now in a better place, if they died in a judgement of a total destruction { sometime/somewhere,} ( or are in a better place from which to repent, if still alive, and thus be provided another oportunity to start to serve, or serve in better truth, or as a better example!!!! ),and 4) So therefore God must be able to "Create the Administration of Evil," to make sure every oportunity is provided for the lost, because even death can not hurt those already saved ----But because God still calls to the lost, if they are willing to listen, until the point where their inner man ---will never repent ( of which God is fully aware of this, and who are such as these; But still needs to call to them, until their own end ) ----and especialy therefore those who so choose death instead of life ---also need to be restrained to the point, where they can not force their self imposed destruction upon all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Isaiah 45:6-7 "That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun that there is no one besides Me, I am the Lord, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, creating peace, and creating evil; I am the Lord who does all these."

    Therefore, when ( the lost, or the backslidden of ) mankind experiences, the worlds hidden gnostic religion, In which men and women each think they are god, who in turn must conquer, and convert the ( the opposite sex ) as the enemy, etc.., etc.., etc.., ( or whatever their particular incorrect take on reality is ) ----surely they must be forced to admit, if they were truthfull at all ---that 1) they are not god, and 2) that the "structure" of the world hidden systems of destruction, show a clear administration of a structure, and 3) And since it provides no final solution which solves all, or makes total sense, that 4) It must be administered for the punishment of those who only belong to some reality, situation, etc.., ( And simply have a lack of faith unto repentance, and the free gift of salvation thru faith, thru grace -and not of works Ephesians 2:1-10 ); because of their lusts,hatreds and greed, [ while, even if a Believer were to find themselves there, while not preferable, it would not condem them to hell either, because they belong to God they would be safe from eternal damnation Isaiah 23:18, etc.., ], and 5) Therefore God must exist ----if we are only willing to stop blaiming "The Other," for our own lusts and greed, as individuals, and as a "Species," or "Race"!!!!!!!!!!!!

    May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.:bible:
  2. Jesus is here to divide.the Lord was talked about as is now.
  3. God created all and even the things we do not understand have a purpose.
  4. My understanding of this verse is that God created satan. Satan is refered to as the evil one.

    Satan chose to become evil and rebel against God.

    Still, it does not change the fact that God sent Jesus to save us from evil.
  5. But in Isaiah 45:7 --: even within the context of 1) 45:1 calling King Cyrus, 2) stating woe to the one who "quarrels with his maker," 3) The Obvious messianic references to Jesus within the chapter, and 4) The references to, and of "Gather yourselves and come; Draw near together, you fugitives of the nations;..." , etc.., etc.., etc.., ------5) The truth is Isaiah 45:7 is an active act of creation, and if one looks at the KJV where it has "I create," for ( both instances ), or the ESV "I create," or the NASB "creating," etc.., etc.., etc.., ---it all speaks of an active state of "creating," and not of "having once created," -----in which case, yes God created the advent of Christ as our King, Lord, and Savior, ---who came in the one time event, to save all those who repent, and recieve the free gift of salvation, thru faith, thru Grace, ----and that the faith is the imparted faith of God to Us, because we repented which was our act of faith, and now recieve the faith of God, with salvation to strengthen us -----However, the truth is the passage is an active act of creation, and A) One can see how Christ was the creative act of God, and still is the only creative act of God, with which human beings still have to choose to accept thru faith, thru repentance -and be saved, and B) The past creation only of the anointed cherub who covers Ezekiel 28:, and whom thru his own evil pride, cause his own fall in the past, and became the lucifer/satan we know today, but C) How is God still actively "Creating" satan ----unless, as I stated, the passage is talking about God creating the "Active Administration," of satan's "half" of the condition of our lost state within the world, in which we have to deal with ----so that God can provide "safety" for all within it, to the ends and means, that God is prepared to provide that administration, and the safety it provides, so God can protect anyone, and everyone, who is considering, and then acting upon repentance, to recieve Salvation, thru faith, thru grace ----so I do not see the passage as implying ( God is creating satan ), and D) God never created satan in the first place -----God created the "anointed cherub who covers," who in turn "Corrupted" himself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---so the answer is no: Because Jesus, as the 2nd Person of the Trinity, is, and was, as "The Christ," the active creation of God ----and the only way to salvation, but satan on the other hand, created his own evil in the past ---and persists in his evil ----But God does not actively create the evil known as satan, and all the calamity, and destruction, which results ---except as "The Administration" of this evil ---to make sure it goes "so far, and not any farther," so a "safe way out," can be provided for those who do repent ----and so God can also cause the calamities and destruction, which are the "Wrath of God," to destroy the evil world, in due times, and due measures -----once the possibility of people to repent has been exhausted ----because God is all knowing, and knows who will never repent ----but must still because of His Holiness ---extend oportunities for their repentance, even if they will not accept ----and thus some disasters, seem to come quickly, and others extreemly slowly ----but what is "Time," or even the need of "Time" to God ---who knows in advance all that is going to happen within the human heart of all of Us?????

    May Christ Richly Bless, Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.:bible:
  6. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    רעה רע
    ra‛ râ‛âh
    rah, raw-aw'
    From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]
  7. I will more than happily concede to Brother Larry's conclusions ---as strightfoward truth ----and that God does create the "calamities," etc..,--as a result of wrath and judgement, etc..,

    However ---I was bringing up the alternative explaination, of it also meaning, God is "administering" what is happening in the world, to provide safe passage, even within judgement and wrath ---for those who suddenly do repent,

    And of God being in charge of all ---to the extent of making sure that "Satan's Evil" is controlled and restrained, by the Power of God ---to make sure satan's "own wrath" does not allow him to do all he wishes to do,

    In the context ---of those who question, or try and imply other things about God -from this and other passages --so as to twist truths about God, for attempted evil purposes ( of course meaning no disrespect for those who simply question, what a passage means, in truth, and while seeking the truth ) will not prosper, in their attempt to attack God, before Us, as believers in the Purity and Holiness of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  8. This may well be another case of contextual useage Mike.

    Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
    In this sentence the proper useage would be defined as

    adversity, affliction, bad, calamity

    Jos 23:15 Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

    1Sa 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
    1Sa 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

    2Sa 12:11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.

    2Ki 6:33 And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD; what should I wait for the LORD any longer?

    Psa 34:16 The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

    There are literally dozens of scriptures such as these and while most seem to support judgement ,calamity and disaster this does not explain the following:

    A- evil existed before mankind

    Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    B- more importantly nothing was made that wasn't made by Him

    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    I do not pretend to see evil in a most holy God but I must recognize that His Word delcares He created EVERYTHING. God uses many tools for revealing His will, the presence of evil tests mens hearts and brings them to the valley of decision.
  9. Again, You use much faith, and obedience, and carefull understanding, in Your "Searching" of Scripture ---Towards building sound conclusions, ( and thus showing Your are "wrestling" with God as Jacob did ---However, in our case, we "wrestle with God's word," to "Seek" God's truths ) ----And I can not argue with Your understanding and conclusions in this matter, even if I wanted to do so. -----But what You have presented, is what I like to see, when we "Wrestle" with God's Word, to bring forth conclusions which show God's truths, and glorify God ---We are lifting Jesus up, thru true Love of God: because no one can "Search" out such sound conclusions, which show God is glorious, unless one is of the "Spirit" of God and truth, ( And being able to build sound and complex conclusions, in a clear demonstration that we believe in, and love God ---does indeed "manifest" our faith, and does indeed, therefore, Lift Up Jesus ---to the world ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Praise God. :bible: :jesus-sign: :amen:
  10. Let's invite the Holy Spirit to give us an understanding and perhaps we will do a little less wrestling brother. He is our wonderful teacher sent from the Father after all!!!:D
  11. Also true, but I had allways believed God teaches us a lot thru the Holy Spirit -but still wants us to "wrestle" or "Strive" with Him -to prove how deep our commitment is ---because apart from "Salvation," which is a free gift, I had allways also believed God wants us to grow in Character as people as well, even in some ways thru our striving ----and if our particular "striving" involves doing so with God's word, just a little, apart from other oportunities as well ------( maybee I am wrong, Ohhh there's a surprise :D ), But I had allways thought it provides an oportunity for us to deepen our relationship with God, while growing in character, and had never meant it as a bad thing, to "Strive" with God's word, ----to not only prove, who is approved, but also for our growth?????????????

    But You guys know Me, and thus, if a Crow can make it a five mile trip, in a straight line, as the Crow flies: I at least have to make it a one hundred and five mile trip, with a few detours in there as well, on top of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
  12. character is good,we don,t want to be one mind like satan,s drones who talk without thought,and do as told from others without finding out why or if we should.rebeling aggainst the world is what i,m good at.:)
  13. KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid)

    All humans are born with an animal nature. The modern versions of the NewTestament calls that nature sinful. The Apostle Paul uses the term 'sinful-nature' over a dozen times in his letters, but mostly in the book of Romans.

    Satan's sinful nature is a spiritual representation of our sinful nature (I love me, who do you love)? You see, we all were given a freewill which God can not violate and still call Himself a God of love. Love cannot force anyone to do good/love against their will.

    Why were we given a freewill? Because it was necessary for us to choose God's ways wihile we still were in the control of our sinful human nature. And by choosing God instead of obeying our sinful nature, we in the stroke of a decision can/will now live to please God through Christ, through faith.

    God had to permit evil in order to allow us to make a choice. And no, God cannot control evil at this time without taking away our freewill, since evil has its earthly origin with us humans, even though it is inspired by the devil.

    And yes, God does, at times, use evil to His advantage, especially in the Old Testament. When He said to the nation of Israel "I will send a nation more wicked than yourself to come and destroy you." In that case, The Lord was using evil to fulfill His good purpose.

    And no, God never creates evil per se, since He is a God of love, again, although He may us it to our and His advantage.
  14. Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version

    I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
  15. And Isaiah 54

    I believe you will find that God created the destroyer to work havoc.

    take a look at Isaiah 54.

    I ponder on these facts at times. God doesn't make mistakes. He always knows what He is doing. He orchestrates all things to work together for good. I trust Him fully.

    Can anyone agree with trusting Him no matter what He does & no matter what he allows?

    :(I must admit that I don't always understand it all though. I trust Him but can't say I've always got it figured out.
  16. concerning the Mystery of Evil

    I believe that God created neither death nor suffering nor evil. Evil has no hypostasis or existence as such. Evil is the absence of good; death is the absence of life. Evil is the alienation of the created being who has estranged himself from God; it is the degeneration of an essence which was created good. The sinner dies, not because God slays him in punishment so that He might revenge Himself on him -- for man cannot offend God, nor does God experience any satisfaction at the death of a man -- the sinner dies because he has alienated himself from the Source of Life. God is not responsible for evil, nor is He its cause. Neither is God blameworthy because He created man's nature with the possibility of alienating itself. If He had created human nature without free will, by this imposed condition He would have rendered the created intelligent being purely passive in nature; the creature would simply submit, not having the possibility of doing otherwise, since it would not be free. However, God wished that, after a fashion, we too should be His co-workers in His creation and be responsible for our own eternal destiny. God knows in His infinite wisdom how to transform the causes of evil into that which is profitable for man's salvation. Thus God uses the consequences of evil so as to make roses bloom forth from the thorns; although He never desired the thorns, nor did He create them in order to use them as instruments. He permitted these things to exist out of respect for our freedom. Thus God permits trials and sufferings without having created them. When suffering comes upon me, I must receive this as an unfathomable proof of His love, as a blessing in disguise and without feeling indignant, I must seek out its significance. As for temptations, I must avoid them, and for the sake of humility, beseech God to spare me from them, even as our Saviour teaches us in the Lord`s Prayer: "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Yet, in all trials, temptations, and sufferings, we conclude our prayer as did the Saviour in the garden of Gethsemane: "Not My will, but Thine be done" (Luke 22:42).
  17. Yet the scripture declares He did:
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    If there were no evil, no good an bad there would be no choice to make.
  18. Yet scripture also says to hate it:
    Psalm 97:10 "You who love the LORD, hate evil!..."

    Proverbs 8:13 "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate."

    Amos 5:14-15 "seek good and not evil, that you may live: So the LORD God of hosts will be with you, as you have spoken. Hate evil, love good; establish justice in the gate. It may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph."

    If you read Genises Chapter 1, you'll find out that everything God created "He saw that it was good." Why would God create something and then tell us to hate it?

    In Mark 7:21-23 we see that evil comes from the heart and defiles a man...So If God created evil, He created it to defile man because Jesus said that is what evil does. But God dosn't want us defiled. He wants all of us to come to repentance of that evil that defiles us (2 Peter 3:9).

    I'm with Alec on this one...Evil was never created...it was perverted from Good because the devil can't create anything...all he can do is pervert what God has allready created and God created everything and saw that it was good...not evil.

    Walking in Victory,

  19. God created angels.then God created humans.the angels lusted after humans.so there sin was first.1 even challenged Gods seed with cain.giants grew etc from angels.God flooded the earth and perged his deciet.noah came from seth and followed God.the serphant infected the air.which has never changed.Jesus came after many lies,to tell truth.read Jesus because his words are your life eternal.
  20. I simply trie to believe what the scripture says:
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    You can feel free to disagree with me on this though- much love in Christ, Larry.

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