Gn 1:31!

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Leo_ACH, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. I got this friend from work that is toward to Atheism. Couple weeks ago I gave him a book from Pastor Wurmbrand on this subject. Them, for the very first time he was not afraind to make his "strongest" argumet to me.....Based on a Old-Earth platform: Why did animals killed each other before the flood?(Based on science!)

    That made me re-visit my old notes for this argument....I found a old note sayind "Where does it say the God Created a perfect Universe to beging with!? Does not even the Anges have defects? Is not ONLY God perfect!?" .....lol....not very Orthodox,....using Scriputure, logic etc...can you refute this note in a logic and soundble maner?
     
  2. My understanding is this.. God did create a perfect world.. Until sin entered.. After creation God said "It is good". He said the same for creation of animals, plants and man and woman also.. It was sin which changed the whole equation.. Before fall of Adam, there was no death.. That includes all creation.. Meaning, animals also.. Death came in through sin of one adam.. That is, death to all creation itself. So Adam's sin brought death for animals also.. The whole landscape of world changed after fall.. Until then Adam did not have to toil the soil..
     
  3. Undestandable my dear brother you stick to the Orthodox teachings the earth is 7-8.000 years old...Its safe. Just to add to the Orthodox view, can you give us a biblical verse the states the God made anything perfect equal to Him? Would be unfair to say that God alone is perfect? How can we make this work? Can we?.....This note needs a fair scrutiny....
     
  4. I don't know if it is fair to compare creation to Creator.. God said "it is good". Which simply means, it was good! Not sure what is your definition of perfect here means..

    Yes brother.. I do believe in young earth and creationism.. Because that's what Genesis teaches (the way I interpret it)
     
    Leo_ACH likes this.
  5. You mean what it says? :)
     
  6. [QUOTE=" Why did animals killed each other before the flood?(Based on science!)
    "Where does it say the God Created a perfect Universe to beging with!? Does not even the Anges have defects? Is not ONLY God perfect!?" .....lol....not very Orthodox,....using Scriputure, logic etc...can you refute this note in a logic and soundble maner?[/QUOTE]
    Leaving aside dinosaurs eating one another,
    scripture says Satan was perfect until ....Ezekiel 28
    You were on the holy mount of God;
    you walked among the fiery stones.
    15You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created
    till wickedness was found in you.
    16Through your widespread trade
    you were filled with violence,
    and you sinned.
    So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
    and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
    from among the fiery stones.
    Perfection is not perfect unless it has the capacity for self will. If Angels, satan, and man did not possess this facility they would only be robots, biological or spiritual but robots nonetheless.
    Is the mona lisa a perfect painting? if it was perfect it would be a photo, all artwork is an expression and cannot be perfect.
    Is a perfect building a cube?
    Perfection is a sentiment, an ideal situation, an aspiration.
    At the pinnacle of CREATIVE perfection is chaos, the allowance for variants, shadows even corruption.
    So God has created perfectly, but not by the standards of idealism.
     
    Leo_ACH likes this.
  7. Brother do you have a better point of view? God bless!
     
  8. Leaving aside dinosaurs eating one another,
    scripture says Satan was perfect until ....Ezekiel 28
    You were on the holy mount of God;
    you walked among the fiery stones.
    15You were blameless in your ways
    from the day you were created
    till wickedness was found in you.
    16Through your widespread trade
    you were filled with violence,
    and you sinned.
    So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
    and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
    from among the fiery stones.
    Perfection is not perfect unless it has the capacity for self will. If Angels, satan, and man did not possess this facility they would only be robots, biological or spiritual but robots nonetheless.
    Is the mona lisa a perfect painting? if it was perfect it would be a photo, all artwork is an expression and cannot be perfect.
    Is a perfect building a cube?
    Perfection is a sentiment, an ideal situation, an aspiration.
    At the pinnacle of CREATIVE perfection is chaos, the allowance for variants, shadows even corruption.
    So God has created perfectly, but not by the standards of idealism.[/QUOTE]
    Nice way explaining "Perfection"....Can we keep going brother?...

    Your points actualy, falls within the note...

    "Where does it say the God Created a perfect (flawless) Universe to beging with!? Does not even the Anges have defects? Is not ONLY God perfect!?


    Could we say the "blameless in YOUR ways" Ezikel 28:15 actualy is not the "perfection idealism" as you mention? Stands, the Satan was blameless in side of what God expect from him? A deal? A guided model with a option to independecy?


    More like Adan and Eve...."even duo they were naked, they were not ashamed"....Gn 1:25?

    Could we substitute "ashamed" by "blemeless" here too?....

    Does the bible say or insinuate the they were perfect(with out any flaw...sinneless)? Or does it says that in side of what God proposed for them they are inocent? Could we compare a child today that in there first years can not comprehend the extent of they sinifull acts?


    What does the bible teach about them? It was Idealistic perfect or plain inocent with a possible scape, based on a "deal" as we know...over a fruit!?

    If Adan and Eve had not fallen, everyone would see the nakeness of each other and would not be a sin...but todays is....

    Becouse of the DEAL was them considered innocent?

    Can we say that becouse of a God's "deal" and not "Idealistic Perfection", innocence was kept, even if sin, was possibilly present?

    Too late I got to go....! God bless!
     
  9. Lol......What happended? I actualy just said the our idea of perfection may not be God's perfection....

    If you have time...read this article...it is healthy...
    http://creation.mobi/the-carnivorous-nature-and-suffering-of-animals

    and them we can go back to your comment...God bless! Have a great day my brother!
     

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