Genesis and Sodom

[1] Elect
Election, Summary: In both Testaments the Hebrew and Greek words are rendered "elect," "election," "choose," "chosen." In all cases they mean, simply, "chosen," or "to choose"; and are used of both human and divine choices.
(1) In the latter use election is:
(a) corporate, as of the nation of Israel, or the church Isa 45:4 Eph 1:4 and
(b) individual 1Pet 1:2
(2) Election is according to the foreknowledge of God 1Pet 1:2 and wholly of grace, apart from human merit Rom 9:11 Rom 11:5,6.
(3) Election proceeds from the divine volition Jn 15:16.
Election is, therefore:
(1) The sovereign act of God in grace whereby certain are chosen from among mankind for Himself. Jn 15:19. (2) The sovereign act of God whereby certain elect persons are chosen for distinctive service for Him. Lk 6:13 Acts 9:15 1Cor 1:27,28
 
Correct - elect according to foreknowledge- chosen by the God who sees all and knows who will come to Him.
 
I think being as Copper is the OP we should let him come back and comment . He has not made any contribution to his thread .
 
The Response

God wishes that none shall perish and yes he gave the world his only begotten Son. But to honor the Lord's sacrifice which was made to set us free from sin, how can we live any longer there in? As it is written "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son". No transgressor hath God, therefore how can they have the Son?
 
You (fortunately for every human) have missed grace entirely. We are to strive to be free from the bondage of sin and yet our salvation is based on the goodness of Jesus Christ and not our own works.


Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Both of these scriptures plainly point out that good works are necessary and to be desired but not the basis of our salvation. To follow Christ is to walk in faith trusting Him each step of the way for our salvation and deliverance from sin and corruption. Works come through faith and not vice versa.
 
Boanerges said:
You (fortunately for every human) have missed grace entirely. We are to strive to be free from the bondage of sin and yet our salvation is based on the goodness of Jesus Christ and not our own works.


Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Both of these scriptures plainly point out that good works are necessary and to be desired but not the basis of our salvation. To follow Christ is to walk in faith trusting Him each step of the way for our salvation and deliverance from sin and corruption. Works come through faith and not vice versa.
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THANK YOU!!! You took the words right out of my mouth... Well, sort of... I don't think I would have been so nice:)
 
Copper25 said:
God wishes that none shall perish and yes he gave the world his only begotten Son. But to honor the Lord's sacrifice which was made to set us free from sin, how can we live any longer there in? As it is written "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son". No transgressor hath God, therefore how can they have the Son?
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Cooper25, there is something you must remember... You live by the sword, you die by the sword! Now I know that usually this saying is applied in mercy situations, or lack there of, but try and put it in this context! If you choose to live "by the law" and not by grace you place on yourself and on those around you a burden that can not be carried! If we could carry it, why would we have needed Jesus to die? Jesus' coming and going and leaving us the Holy Spirit did not cancel the law but it made it possible for us to not suffer the eternal consequence for breaking it! The Holy Spirit gives us the strength to choose the right thing when at a cross road but Jesus gives us the a way out when we make the wrong choice: repentance! You see as long as our hearts are striving to be like Jesus, our daily transgressions can be overcome through repentance and forgiveness! By His grace and mercy Jesus has given us a way to the Father that has NOTHING to do with behavior but rather with the state of our hearts!

Laura:)
 
Coppers Response

Jesus did for us on the cross, not doubt that showed that God's love is unconditional, but the transgressor shall not abide in Christ according to the scripture "Whosoever sinneth hath no seen him, neither known him" and "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God". So how is God's love unconditional when it says in psalms 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.)) People wrest with that which they don't understand.
 
Copper25 said:
Jesus did for us on the cross, not doubt that showed that God's love is unconditional, but the transgressor shall not abide in Christ according to the scripture "Whosoever sinneth hath no seen him, neither known him" and "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God". So how is God's love unconditional when it says in psalms 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.)) People wrest with that which they don't understand.
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Romans 5:8-9 (NLT)
But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. (emphasis added)
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Jesus died for us while we were (and still are) sinners.

The us means us ALL.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God".
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This requires two things to happen. First, the person must be a sinner (not a problem for us humans). And second, they must reject the gift of God's Grace given through Jesus.

God's Love, His offer of Life is NOT conditional!!! But we do have the free will to reject it.
 
Copper25 said:
Jesus did for us on the cross, not doubt that showed that God's love is unconditional, but the transgressor shall not abide in Christ according to the scripture "Whosoever sinneth hath no seen him, neither known him" and "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God". So how is God's love unconditional when it says in psalms 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.)) People wrest with that which they don't understand.
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Copper .... I must ask you if you have asked and recieved Jesus Christ in to your heart and if you have...... then we are still not perfect and never will be and we do fall from time too time because of satan's trip ups but we can ask for forgiveness and God's unconditional love does show us forgivenness . It is a process and a journey that each and every one as Christians follows .

We do not need to follow the old laws from the OT as they were for the people of that time but we follow the new covenant that was made for us when Christ died on the cross for our sins . Now we can pray to Christ and He intercedes for us .

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!


Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

Colossians 3:10
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator

Hebrews 12:24
to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
 
Copper25 said:
Jesus did for us on the cross, not doubt that showed that God's love is unconditional, but the transgressor shall not abide in Christ according to the scripture "Whosoever sinneth hath no seen him, neither known him" and "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God". So how is God's love unconditional when it says in psalms 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.)) People wrest with that which they don't understand.
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OY!!!!

You know, I always find that arguing with the "law keepers" is futile and unfruitful! All they want to do is prove and keep their point and their views because it makes them feel better about themselves. So, friend, believe what you want to believe but those of us who crave for, understand and accept God's unmerited GRACE will continue to do so because once you've tasted the freedom GRACE brings you never want to go back to the prison of the "law"! BTW, since you seem to LOVE those scriptures so much but obviously you misunderstand them, here they are in a translation that might shed a little light for you...

1 John 3:6
6No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains [a]in communion with and in obedience to Him--deliberately, knowingly, and [b]habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habitually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him].

2 John 1:9
9Anyone who runs on ahead [of God] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ [who is not content with what He taught] does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ [does have God], he has both the Father and the Son.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the "doctrine" of Christ is?

Laura
 
Amen , Michael .... exactly . You are a man of a few words but you choose them wisely ....... Yay for Michael :D:D
 
Copper25 said:
God wishes that none shall perish and yes he gave the world his only begotten Son. But to honor the Lord's sacrifice which was made to set us free from sin, how can we live any longer there in? As it is written "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son". No transgressor hath God, therefore how can they have the Son?
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Thank God for His redeeming grace

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 
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