1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Gen1

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by th1bill, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    Gen 1:2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.


    It never fails to amaze me when folks hit me with the Gap Theory and other man made ideas that are not supported by the scriptures. The Gap Theory, for those that do not know, aims at the idea that the Earth and the Universe existed for billions of years, the beginning marked by verse 1, and then God, verse 2, interfered.


    The best I have ever been able to conclude is that the Evolution Creationists must have spawned this stupidity and then sought and still seek to impose it onto the scriptures. The fact of the matter is that three times God has warned us not to add nor to subtract from the scriptures and this silly idea is adding big time. We must learn to read the Word of God and to accept it, just as God commanded, by Faith.


    Gen 1:3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

    Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness.

    Gen 1:5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.


    Immediately, there is a Life Application, God set a rhythm for all life to follow. If the reader can take the scriptures to heart, as they read the Pentateuch, God explains the rhythm better and if we are smart we will seek to live our lives by that rhythm. The only people that should ever be excused from this Rule of Life are the soldiers that need to respond to Satan's Followers as they seek to harm us.


    Gen 1:6 Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."

    Gen 1:7 God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.

    Gen 1:8 God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.


    If we are not careful to read the passage and to understand it's context, it is easy to misunderstand this passage. This “Expanse” spoken of here is the region between Space and the Ground of the Earth, the area filled with the Air we breath.


    As we study this chapter it is worthy to note that God, regardless of some folks perception, is a Spirit Being and does not operate on the Twenty-Four Hour Time Period and yet, as He had Moses write this chapter, God had him divide time into twenty-four hour periods.


    Gen 1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.


    We, Christians, must learn one lesson, the scriptures do not need to be reconciled with Scientific Theory. Scientific Theory is a theory, a man's or men's idea, and the Word of God is fact! In these verses we see God raising the dry lands up from the waters... for His purposes. The truth is that the Scientist can speak of Plate shift until the cows come home but that will never make it true. On the other hand, successful life is very simple, believe in God and believe God and go to Heaven! Fail at this and the result is Eternity in Hell.


    Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:13 There was evening and there was morning, a third day.


    These events are taking place about six thousand years ago, give or take, maybe a few hundred years. (I have made a, usually, unrequired concession here.) This passage is a beautiful illustration of God's love through provision for us... even before we were.


    Gen 1:14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years;

    Gen 1:15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also.

    Gen 1:17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth,

    Gen 1:18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.


    Notice the rhythm? The years I spent in combat, I spent in reaction... God does not want us to live, reacting to this or to that. Everything, to this point is done with a certain rhythm and it is impossible for the man or the woman that walks with God and talks with God to read scripture without seeing the Life Application of the scripture.


    Recently, the folks at the Fox News Channel were commenting on the instability of the Sun and yet, for all it's apparent instability, there is a certain rhythm to it's changing North and south Poles. The report stated that this rhythm can be measured in two manners, it changes poles every eleven years, that's one measure or one can state that it has a twenty-two year cycle.


    God has given everything He created a certain rhythm and if we will pay attention, it will be, greatly, to our benefit.


    Gen 1:20 Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens."

    Gen 1:21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:22 God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth."

    Gen 1:23 There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day.


    How can folks miss the blessings God has poured out for us? A day spent on the side of a lake or a river, seated under a 200 or 250 year old Oak Tree with your child or grandchild is a prize that has no equal in this world. And then teaching your son or grandson to hunt Dove, Gold is trivial in comparison. Man just needs to learn real value. And if we will ever get our priorities in proper alignment and learn to love God and to walk with God, then stop playing Church and just Worship from the heart, God will fill us with the Holy Spirit and everything else will fall into place.


    Gen 1:24 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

    Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

    Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

    Gen 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

    Gen 1:29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;

    Gen 1:30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

    Gen 1:31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


    And on the sixth day, God finished His work with the creation of the animals and He capped it off with the creation of the Jewel of Creation, Man or to be PC, Mankind! Be careful here, we are not physical copies of God and the belief that we are has caused great heresy to creep into the LORD's Church.


    God is spirit as are all the beings, excluding Jesus, that reside in Heaven, as of this time. By definition, spirit beings have no extension in time or space and, again, by definition, man does. That simple truth evokes some good conversation. We are created, every single one of us, in the image of God and I leave this right there so that you can consider your answer and with the prayer that you will use this thought, from a silly old man, for a conversation starter.


    (All scripture is from the NASB)
     
    HisManySongs likes this.
  2. The Gap theory predates the life of Darwin and his theory of evolution. You must address the Gap Theory from its origin.
     
  3. That means the time frame between Gen. 1:1 and 1 :2 does it not?

    IF we read carefully, God began to Create in Gen. 1:3, "Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light."

    But then where did the water come from on the earth BEFORE the account of creation in verse 2?
    "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters."
     
    th1bill likes this.
  4. #4 LysanderShapiro, Sep 18, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    I think the argument for young earth/evolution/etc. etc. is quite a red herring when it comes to the validity of God. It's irrelevant to the truth of Christianity. Howard Van Til at Calvin College asked the question of whether this is a necessary component to the Christian faith and the response was overwhelmingly that when it comes down to it, it really isn't.

    Theologists haven't back-peddled their position due to modern science -- St. Augustine, back in the 300s, said in his commentary of Genesis that the days needn't be taken literally, nor need the creation be a few thousand years ago. He said the world would have been made by God with certain potencies that unfolded in the progress of time. This statement was made 1500 years prior to Darwin and gives sway that it is a position consistent with Christianity.

    The doubts one might have toward evolution aren't necessarily due to Scripture, but rather Science. A Christian might have a difference of opinion with another Christian, but that doesn't mean one accepts the scriptures and the other doesn't--it might mean they disagree on the interpretation of Genesis.
     
  5. I believe the gap was when the evil one fell. That had nothing to do with evolution.
     
    Mr. Darby likes this.
  6. Fascinating stuff. What brought you to that conclusion out of curiosity?
     
  7. THE SECOND ABODE: THE MINERAL GARDEN OF EDEN

    It is known from Job 38:4-7 that all of the angelic beings were already created prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth. Satan was created and dwelling in his first abode at the Throne of God and, chronologically speaking, after an unknown duration of time comes God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1. When God created the heavens and the earth, He gave different portions of the universe to the authority of certain angelic beings. When God created this particular planet, He gave authority over this planet to Satan, and it served as his second abode.

    This is described in Ezekiel 28:13a: You were in Eden, the garden of God. The Eden of Ezekiel 28 is not the same Eden of Genesis 2-3. The Eden of Genesis 2-3 is a vegetable garden, but the Eden of verse 13a is a mineral garden. Verse 13b describes how this planet looked when it was originally created. There were no oceans or seas. It was a beautiful mineral garden covered by the precious stones listed in verse 13b. Satan walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire according to verse 14. For that reason, Satan's second abode can be called the “Mineral Garden of Eden” as over against the “Vegetable Garden of Eden” of Genesis.

    It was during his second abode that Satan's fall occurred according to Ezekiel 28:16-17: By the abundance of your traffic they filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore have I cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I have cast you to the ground; I have laid you before kings, that they may behold you. As the prince of Tyre would do centuries later, the king of Tyre did centuries earlier. He began to meditate in a wrong manner upon his beauty, his wisdom, his power, and his authority. Rather than remaining in humble submission to God who gave him all these things by pure grace, pride welled up within him, and this pride led to his fall. The problem was clearly stated as pride in verse 17a: Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness.

    Paul warned strongly against placing a new believer in a position of authority in a local church in I Timothy 3:6. Among the qualifications Paul writes about is the statement: not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil. A novice or new believer must never be placed in the position of authority in the local church, because by virtue of being a new believer, he is automatically in a state of spiritual immaturity. It takes time to mature spiritually just as it takes time to mature physically. If a new believer is placed in a position of authority before he is mature enough, this might well him up with pride, and he will fall into the same sin as Satan. The first sinner ever was Satan, and the first sin ever was the sin of pride.

    The content of Satan's pride was his declaration of five “I wills” found in Isaiah 14:12-14: How are you fallen from heaven, O day star, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, that did lay low the nations! And you said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High. When Satan was welled up with pride, this pride led to the declaration of these five “I wills.” Each I will has a specific significance.

    First, I will ascend into heaven. He was not satisfied with the very high position that had already been given him as the guardian of God's Throne and authority over the Mineral Garden of Eden. He desired the higher position, a higher estate than he already had. There was no higher position than God's own Throne. With the first I will, he declared a desire to usurp God's own authority. Instead of being the one overshadowing the Throne, he now wished to become the throne sitter.

    Secondly, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. Whenever the word stars is used symbolically, it is always a symbol of angels with one possible exception. With the second I will, Satan declared his desire to become the sole authority over all the angels that God had created. By so doing, he intended to depose Michael from his position and become the Archangel all by himself.

    Thirdly, I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north. These are expressions used elsewhere by the prophets in describing the Millennial or Messianic Kingdom. Satan knew quite well that God's program for the Jewish people is for the Messiah to rule over the nation of Israel during the Kingdom. The third I will declared his desire to make himself the Messianic ruler over Israel.

    Fourthly, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds. Whenever the word “cloud” is used symbolically, it is always a symbol of God's glory, that unique glory called the Shechinah Glory. It is a glory that belongs to God alone and something that Satan desired all for himself.

    And fifth, I will make myself like the Most High. According to Genesis 14:18-20, whenever God is referred to as the Most High, it emphasizes God as the possessor of the heavens and the earth. With this fifth I will, Satan declared his desire to become the sole possessor of all that God created in Genesis 1:1.

    These five I wills resulted from Satan's pride and caused him to lead a revolt against God's authority in which he was followed by one third of the entire angelic host (Rev. 12:3-4). In this way, the day-star, son of the morning, became Satan, the adversary. At that point, judgment came upon him.

    Both the corruption of his person and his deeds are described in Ezekiel 28:16-19. Verse 16 states: By the abundance of your traffic they filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore have I cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; and I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Verse 16a spells out the content of his wrongdoings: By the abundance of your traffic. For the king of Tyre, Satan, this figure meant going from angel to angel slandering God in order to win their allegiance. The corruption of his being led to his wrong deed, lying about God. In this way, Satan became the father of lies (Jn. 8:44).

    Verse 16b describes the twofold judgment of Satan. First, therefore have I cast you as profane out of the mountain of God; he lost the high position as the guardian of God's Throne. Secondly: I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. The word destroyed does not mean “destroyed in his being,” but “destroyed in his position.

    Verse 17 states: Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I have cast you to the ground; I have laid you before kings, that they may behold you. Verse 17b decrees the punishment of the king of Tyre: I have cast you to the ground; I have laid you before kings that they may behold you.

    Verse 18 states: By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your traffic, you have profaned your sanctuaries; therefore have I brought forth a fire from the midst of you; it has devoured you, and I have turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold you. Verse 18a further reveals his sinful deeds. First: By the multitude of your iniquities. The word iniquities refers to his internal corruption. Secondly: in the unrighteousness of your traffic. The corruption of his character led to deeds of corruption, and he, in turn, corrupted other angels by slandering God. Thirdly: you have profaned your sanctuaries. Because Satan sinned while he was still in Heaven, he brought corruption to Heaven. This necessitated cleansing by the blood of the Messiah (Heb. 9:23-26). Furthermore, three things come by way of punishment in verse 18b. First, therefore have I brought forth a fire from the midst of you. Secondly, it has devoured you. And thirdly, I have turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold you.

    And verse 19 states: All they that know you among the peoples shall be astonished at you: you are become a terror, and you shall nevermore have any being. Verse 19 gives three results. First: All they that know you among the peoples shall be astonished at you. The angels and those among humanity that followed him will be astonished at his demise. Secondly: you are become a terror. Thirdly: you shall nevermore have any being. Although Satan is an eternal being, he will no longer exist on this earth and he will no longer be active. In that sense, he will no longer have any being.

    When God judged Satan, He also judged everything that was under Satan's authority , which meant judgment on the original earth. The conditions of Genesis 1:2 came into being as a result of this judgment. Although it was not originally created that way, the earth became waste and void (Is. 45:18). The beautiful mineral garden that the planet once was became totally covered by oceans. Some time after this judgment came the six days of creation recorded in Genesis 1. It is quite clear that Genesis 1:2 describes a state of chaos. The issue comes down to this question: Did God create it in a chaotic state and then bring order to it, or did it become chaotic? It is hard to believe that God created chaos because, when God creates something, He creates it perfect. The author believes it became chaotic because of Satan's fall. Therefore, he does not believe that Genesis 1:2 describes an original chaotic creation. Furthermore, a certain Hebrew expression, tohu vavohu, is used which, when used elsewhere throughout the Hebrew Old Testament, spells the concept of divine judgment. Even water on a global scale is a picture of a worldwide, divine judgment. Therefore, a gap of time needs to seen between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

    It is evident, then, that this author places the fall of Satan between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. This position is often referred to as the “gap theory.” But many people who hold to this theory do so merely for “dinosaur space.” They attempt to fit the fossil and geological ages into the gap and are forced to make the gap millions, if not billions, of years long. Many have put a gap there only to adapt their interpretation of Scripture to certain scientific theories, making it a convenient place to put the geological ages and the fossil record. Doing this to accommodate certain scientific theories is totally unnecessary. This is not the position of the author at all since, scripturally, it would be impossible for death to exist before the Fall of man (Rom. 5:12). There is a gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 only for the Fall of Satan, and this need not be a very long period of time at all.

    On the sixth day of creation, God created man and gave him authority over the planet. But when man fell, Satan usurped authority over the earth, setting the stage for his activities in this third abode.

    Dr Fruchtenbaum
    http://www.ariel.org/mbsnit.htm

    The Six Abodes of Satan
     
    Mr. Darby likes this.
  8. Okay, maybe I could ask a few questions for clarification here...

    When you say "be excused," who would be doing the excusing here?

    When you say "...harm us," who do you mean? Who is "us"?

    Also, maybe explain what you mean by "Satan's Followers"?

    Again, for clarification, I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Other civilisations that predate Moses also measured time in 24-hour periods. Are you referring to the Talmudic hour?

    From Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_and_Talmudic_units_of_measurement#Time

    I partially agree with that.

    I think that science is way of learning about God's creation, and trying to understand "the rhythm for all life to follow" that you spoke about. That being said, we can learn truths about the world through scientific evaluation, but we can't rely solely on it to arrive at ultimate Truth, for the same reasons that we couldn't build the tower of babel.

    As time passes, often various conclusions based on interpretations of scientific study are shown to be false for various reasons. This is partially because humans, even if we're doing out best to be unbiased, are not always fully aware of our preconceptions, so our ability to design an experiment or interpret our findings is inevitably tainted by our bias. However, although scripture is authoritative, we should also recognise that our ability to interpret scripture without bias is also limited. Personally, I've found that as I confront my preconceptions that don't originate from scripture, and draw closer to the guidance of the Spirit, my understanding of scripture changes.

    Again, I'll just point out that in this instance, science has been used as the method of "paying attention" to the "certain rhythm" He created. Even if we say that scripture doesn't have to be reconciled with every current theory arrived at through interpretation of scientific observation, wouldn't we also have to agree that in some cases, it is?
     
  9. I'm also curious of this statement. It fascinates me--that's for sure. Define the Rule of Life.
     
  10. I disagree! To play with the Gap Theory is Fool's Play. To address it in any form, other than to deny it, is silly, regardless where or when it came. The truth, as we are given to believe, has been dictated to Moses, by God, the Creator! Satan uses the Gap Theory to spawn all manner of heresy and therefore must be ignored except to discourage men from going there.
     
  11. Interesting but invalid argument. I am taught that there is and always has been a Hebrew word for periods of time greater than the word used, meaning one twenty-four day. And yet, the all knowing God, the all powerful God, dictated the word for day. Your arguing with God and that is heresy, I would be careful going there.
     
  12. Friend, don't let doctrinal differences be confused with arguing with God. Rather, it seems we merely have a disagreement on translation. Though I doubt neither of us would dare argue with Him.

    Nonetheless, this also doesn't mean I object to your position, but rather that it's a red herring. If you were to ask me my thoughts on the theories of young earth, gap theory, and evolution, you'd be barking up the wrong tree. Nonetheless, I do think there is something to be said for what Christianity and salvation are vs. what Christians might conclude to in regards to the genesis of God's creation. Though of course, if it were to mean that God had no real part in it, then that would be claiming a heresy. Obviously God is the Alpha and Omega, to borrow the colloquialism.
     
  13. Roads,
    It is rude to quote out of context comments, that is what the perverse preachers of heresy do to scripture.
    If you will put your extraction back into it's context you will see that none of your questions make sense and what I see, coming from your hand, is a personal assault and that is not of God.
     
  14. Good question but the scripture, did just that. We work six days and rest on the seventh, but the soldier does not have that option, nor should he have. Men like Major and his young men were assaulted seven days a week, twenty-four hours a day. And dummies like me and my boys were needed, "right now," Not when we got the time to comply. That statement is rooted in personal ¨life experience.´ My rifle was on my cot with me, I was dressed and my pistol belt and .357 were under my feet at night. Laying beside my Gunner's bed were both Machine Guns and the Ammo was already under the seats except the three thousand in the trays. We worked when ever Major and his men needed us and they worked twenty-four hours a day, sleeping where ever and when ever they managed a nap.

    Hope that helps. Soldiers are not normal people.
     
    Major likes this.
  15. Gotcha. Thanks, Bill.
     
  16. You are given the right to disagree with me or with God by God ut that does not make the Gap Theory doctrine, it is a theory, a man's idea, and not of God.
     
    Major likes this.
  17. Indeed. I most likely worded that poorly (which I have a habit of doing here :p) though I don't want you to mistake this as me disagreeing with God. How could any of us even begin to do that if we are to call ourselves his servants?
     
  18. LOL!!! Thanks for the insight bro. Most folks would choose to take that on the chin but not the Man of
    God... that appears to be you. I, too, sometimes play the Devil´s Advocate, for the sake of discussion.

    Note, please! I have a sever case of MS, meaning there are over sixty scars on my brain and more on my spinal column, so sometimes I forget and you might need to wake me up. But be careful and holod your nose when doing so, old soldiers never die... we just smell that way!
     
    Major likes this.
  19. I legitimately want to understand what you're trying to say. I asked questions to give you the opportunity to explain what you mean, instead of making assumptions, which to me seems like exactly the opposite of launching a personal attack.

    Let's take another look at your post:

    I'm looking at it "in context". I still have the same questions. I'm not attacking you, Bill, I'm trying to find out what you mean. If I ask you questions for clarification, it's a sign of respect for your opinion, it means I want to find out more.
     
  20. Abso-lutely :)
    And not a problem. I understand what you mean. I live across the street from Walter Reed hospital in DC. I can tell the older generation of veterans are a different breed from my friends in the army -- I mean that in the best way possible.
     
    Major likes this.

Share This Page