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Gay Marriage

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by nws2dc, May 3, 2014.

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  1. Let me say first of all that I am married and consider my –self a Christian. I am a sinner saved by grace. I think that the true Christian approach in America should be to accept gay marriage. Here is why.



    1. Granting Marriage rights is a government role and not a religious role- The bible does not say that a government must grant special rights to married people. Therefore, recognizing and granting special rights to married people is a choice made within a society. The scriptures don’t command the government to do anything.

    2. Heterosexual marriage is the second best option according to scripture. Paul says that a person should not marry and should serve God only. This is the highest option but for those who cannot do that marriage is given as a second choice.

    3. Heterosexual married people are still sinners - Once a man and woman marry they continue to sin. You can go down a list of sins(greed, envy, lust, harmful speech, worldly desires etc.) and married men and women still commit them.

    4. All sex with the exception of that which is specifically for procreation is lust – Married men and women have sex all the time purely for pleasure with no intent to procreate. This is a sin of lust. Lust is wanting and pursuing sexual desire instead of pursuing God. Whether it is a young couple on birth control or an older couple where the woman is past child bearing age, the great majority of sex within heterosexual marriages is only for gratifying sensual pleasures.


    So my point is that heterosexual married couples aren’t really deserving of special rights if you hold them to scriptural standards. Therefore, there ar e a few options that make sense in this light:



    1. No special marriage rights for anyone heterosexual or homosexual.

    2. Only grant special rights for married couples who have already procreated.

    3. Since it is all so flawed and we are being overly generous by extending these benefits to all heterosexual couples why not just extend it to homosexual couples.

    Let me finish this piece with an analogy that makes my point. When I was growing up I had a neighbor who was over 50 and divorced. He remarried another woman who was close to his same age. They were both granted marriages licenses and all the special rights that come with it. The two loved and supported each other until a few years ago when he passed away. Today his surviving spouse continues to draw upon his benefits.

    Scripturally how was this marriage any better than a gay marriage? In both cases you would have supporting committed partners and in both cases you would have sex for only the purpose of lust. My point is we are all sinners and our marriage benefits are already overly generous. Married men and women don’t deserve special benefits. Then going on to ostracizing homosexuals because they are guilty of all the same sins heterosexuals make is cruel. Gay people are people and they can have beautiful relationships that benefit society. Giving them marriage benefits does not demean traditional marriage and family because it is already flawed to begin with. Judge not unless you are ready to receive judgment.
     
  2. Interesting argument but I think your clearly missing the point here. You are forgetting what the Bible has to say about Homosexuality and marriage.

    Marriage was created by God - One man one woman see - Adam and Eve, PLus there are so many scriptures about marriage between a man a woman.

    All sex within marriage whether done for pleasure or for pro-creation is pure and has no sin in it. God created sex within a marriage for intimacy and for purpose. Man has turned it around and perverted it in every way.

    Ever wondered why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah?

    Read - 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

    All sins are sins in his eyes although there are different consequences that people face here on earth due to those sins.

    What you or me have to say about homosexuality doesn't matter. If you believe the WORD of the LIVING GOD!! And that's his word NOT ours. Then it is what it is..

    Peace,
     
  3. To add to that - We are not judging the sinner here (That's God's business). Its the sin in them that they need to be delivered from!

    Doesn't matter what politicians say. Acts 10:34 - God is NOT a respector of persons. He is the creator and we are the created - just like the potter and clay. We obey his word not create our own arguments to try and justify our sin.
    God BLess
     
  4. The issue here is that homosexuality is a sin. We, as Christians, are NEVER supposed to endorse sin.

    Jude 1:4
    4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    Romans 1:26-32
    26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

    Leviticus 18:22
    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

    1 Corinthians 6:9
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

    Leviticus 20:13
    13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

    1 Timothy 1:8-11
    8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

    I know you think "Well the Government isn't Christian so they should be allowed to legalize Gay marriage." WRONG. Sin should NEVER be allowed and accepted, especially for people who don't know Jesus!

    Now, we are to forgive people of their sins, and if a Christian is gay, they need to come out and pray for help. But we as Christians will NEVER endorse or allow a sin to be viewed as morally okay, because it isn't.
     
  5. I have no problem with homosexual people getting a tax break. Them being "together" on paper and getting benefits isn't an issue. The act of them having sex is the issue. If I decided to marry another heterosexual man purely for the benefits, would that be a sin? Not really. Sure, you can say you shouldn't give the appearance of sin, but that's impossible.

    I don't believe sex is only for procreation. Didn't David have sex with his wife for comfort after the death of his child? Sure, a child was made because of it but the purpose was to comfort each other.

    The government is going to cave in anyway, so I don't see a point fighting it. I guess it's because Christian Americans seem to have the idea that this is a "Christian" nation. We should drop that idea. America isn't even close to being anything resembling Christian morals.
     
  6. But it comes down to are we allowing/permitting sin or not? Homosexuality is a sin, and for two men or two women to "marry" is an abomination in God's eyes. He didn't make us that way!

    If the government wants to take over marriage they should give it another name.
     
  7. It's not your job to try to stop people from sinning. If they don't want to change then they won't.
     
  8. I know, but people like to sugar-coat this issue like Homosexuality is okay. The government has basically already legalized it, but we should still know its moral place as sin. I agree, the Gospel is what we should preach, but we shouldn't tell people homosexual marriage is alright, because it's not.
     
  9. I personally don't care. This gets way more attention than it should. Kids are murdering each other and selling drugs and all Christians are talking about is how horrible gay people are.
     
  10. Both issues need to be addressed! And when people come to us with either we should give them the Truth.
     
  11. Christians don't care about other issues enough to rally or anything else. If we treated other sins the way we treat homosexuality then we should start screaming at people in church for their gossiping mouths.
     
  12. Well I'm not screaming at anybody, and I don't know who else is. If Christians are focusing too much on this, that's their issue, not mine.
     
  13. True.
    If we should start trying to fix people we should start in the church. Just my opinion.
     
  14. That's correct, and this is an issue people in the Church are having ( hence the thread :D ). Some Christians say "Yeah Gay marriage is fine, I support it, go Jesus!", and others say "No it's a sin, speak the Truth, go Jesus!"
     
  15. I would be in the second category, although I rarely point out others sins. . I have more to say but I don't want to take the thread more off topic than I already have. :)
     
  16. well, I think homosexuality is a sin ( by homosexuality, I hope you mean homosexual behaviours, not orientation)

    but here the thing

    scripture did say that a marriage is defined as one between a man and woman

    but I do not recall scripture says anything about violation of that definition as a sin?

    it is the sexual act that is considered a sin, and this is regardless whether it happens within the context of a marriage.

    Another thing I have wondered about this issue is whether the term marriage could refer to a civil sense only, in another, is it possible for a marriage to exist, one that is only valid in the eye of the government, and other non Christians, but not in eyes of God and us.

    and to me, it can.

    I mean if you think about it, non Christian religious wedding ceremonies have existed for a long long time, whether it is Shinto, Hindu or Buddhist, are those ceremonies valid in eyes of God, I don't think so.

    But do those people care? no. I mean only thing that matters to them is the marriage is valid in their eyes, and it is legal.

    So for me, I don't have a problem if gay community is asking to legalize a gay "civil" marriage. I will have a problem however, if they insist the Church should recognize their marriage as well.

    also allowing them to get married and the sin itself are actually two separate matters.

    marriage is marriage, sex is sex, while those two do go hand in hand, in 99.9999 % of time, you don't have to have one in order to have another.

    in another word, gay men or women don't need to be in a marriage to have sex.

    so the point of endorsing gay marriage is promoting gay sex is moot to me.

    lastly, there is difference between voicing our disproval vs permitting it.

    the former is for Christian community to say " homosexuality is a sin, we don't agree with it, and we stand by our position", the later is basically saying " not only we don't agree with it, but we are going to force you to agree with us one or another"

    and this exactly what happens with the Church and the gay marriage issue. We go beyond showing our disagreement, we want to prohibit it legally ie to force them to comply with our view.
     
  17. if that is the case.

    I probably fall within a third camp, and that is " Gay marriage is not valid in eyes of God, but as long as gay community are willing to acknowledge their marriage is valid only in a civil sense, I don't have problem with it, and I don't it is appropriate for Christian community to impose our views on others through legal means"
     
  18. Look, a lot of people are doing a lot of evil things and its not my place to go out and find the evil, but it is my place and right to declare what is right in the eyes of God. When certain groups want to attempt to ordain their sin in the Name of God? I have every right and responsibility to point out how far from the truth that is. As it relates to my civil rights as a citizen of this country, I have the right to judge and decide that which is best for my community and my country according to the rights granted to me in the law. I WILL NEVER support this perversion as a citizen nor will I allow it to be justified in the Name of my God. - Minister of Jesus Christ and decorated veteran of the U.S. Navy- Mitspa
     
  19. I was the original poster. Thanks for a wide array of good responses. I just wanted to point out that I am a man married to a woman. (Many years and we have children and I am faithful to my wonderful wife). I do believe homosexual sex is a sin and if someone asked me I would say that I think it is a sin. Different sins do different amounts of harm to society to to ourselves. I don't think that a committed homosexual couples sin of sex together does great harm to society and to those two people. I am also a sinner and again I don't think that my small day to day sins do alot of harm either. But we all still need Gods grace.

    I also believe that God setup marriage as the ultimate form of protection for people in that it is the safest way to have sex and it protects the man and woman and potential offspring. But remember people in heterosexual marriages commit still commit major sins all the time including adultery, murder, lying, divorce. God may have set the institution up but people remian far from perfect once inside it.

    From the standpoint of Christianity marriage can only be between a man and a woman. There is no such thing as a Gay marriage in the Bible.

    The debate about Gay marriage really gets outside of Christianity because the government is involved and they are giving benefits to some citizens and not others. There is just nothing in the Bible that says when you get married you are supposed to get a tax break. In fact if the government wasn't involved their wouldn't be a debate at all.

    Maybe instead of saying we are having a gay marriage debate as Christians we should just say the debate is about how the government recognizes the status of people. When you see a married man and woman together you can say that they are married. When it is 2 men or 2 women you can just say that they live together or that they are just good friends. The fact that they are
    all getting special benefits is insignificant(as this will likely be the case before long). No one deserved these benefits in the first place. No matter what happens in the government or the legal system no one can take away your spiritual riches. And these are the only things that really matter.
     
  20. Oh, yes and I also want to say. There is no reason for Christians to beat each other up on this issue either. Obviously there are other things more important(war, sickness, crime) and obviously we can all improve our own sins instead of talking about those of others. This just gets more press currently because it is political. Political issues cause fights and everyone likes watching a fight.

    The more important thing is to know where you stand and why. One of the worst places you can be in life is to deny that something that a sinful action is a sin. This can be a disastor. However, we are commanded to still love sinners. And we can start with ourselves for that matter.
     
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