FYI: Word of Faith Statement of Faith

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Major said:
1. Agreed.

2. Not Biblical.
The Bible tells us that Christians are both sinners and saints. It is a clear biblical truth that all are born in sin and all have a sin nature. Scripture says that God created humankind originally good and without a sin nature: "Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.’ . . . God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them” (Genesis 1:26–27). However, Genesis 3 records the fall of Adam and Eve, and with that fall sin entered into the two previously sinless creatures. And when they had children, their sin nature was passed along to their offspring. Thus, every human being is a sinner.

3. Agreed.

4. Not Biblical.
The Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. First Corinthians 12:13 declares......
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe:.............
“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory".

5. Agreed.

6. Not Biblical.
Jesus denied that wealth is a sign of God's favor or that poverty is God's punishment for sin. This is shown most clearly in His Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). At least part of the reason the rich man ended up in hell was because of his hard-heartedness toward the beggar Lazarus. His great wealth was obviously not a sign of God's favor. The beggar Lazarus ended up in heaven although he was about as impoverished as a man could be. His poverty was obviously not a sign of sinfulness or foolishness.

7. Not Biblical.
We are told God must heal you if you are speaking by faith just like he saved you by faith. No Christian should be sick or have anything physically wrong with them. " Kenneth Hagin teaches, "It is unscriptural to pray, 'If it is the will of God.' When you put an 'if' in your prayer, you are praying in doubt.( K.Hagin, Exeedingly Growing Faith P.10 2nd ed.)

We are told God must heal you if you are speaking by faith just like he saved you by faith. No Christian should be sick or have anything physically wrong with them.

Matt 24:9: "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake."

8. Not Biblical.
God does not answer all prayer with a YES. Sometimes it is NO.

9. Not Biblical.

10. Agreed.

11. Agreed.

12. Agreed.

13. Agreed.

As I have said many times, IF anyone choose to follow the denominational teaching of the Word of Faith, then have at it.
It is a Denominational teaching which at some points differs from traditional Bible teaching but again we are all free to believe what we think is right.

Why biggest question to Euphemia is since she has denied being a Word of Faith believer but agrees with their denominational teaching, then why post these doctrines of faith FROM that position. It is contrary to your said position.
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Major we will have our day some time after the 15th of the month when I get my new data for the month. System updates wipedout just about then entire months worth . lol

However since I have a minute or tweo I want to say something about your answer marked 2
If you want to claim you are both saved and a sinner be my guest. All men are born with a sin nature. When we become born again all things are NEW and not the same.
WE ARE NOT TO BE SIN MINDED. If saying I am a sinner and a saint is not beingh sin minded then what is ?

Scripture tells us over and over even as.....evan as a sinner ? No I dont think so.
Please get into practice if you are going to quote out side parties in our thread you need to include the entire chapter word for word or it will be void and worthless. That is what you agreed to. ; )

CyaL8r
Jim
 
Abdicate said:
Sin... yep, such a problem. I find many, including myself, struggle with this concept because without proper understanding of what sin actually is leaves too many with contradictory verses, concepts, and misunderstandings. I'm not going to post every verse in what I'm about to say because it's late I'm going to bed soon. I hope I've earned a little leeway in this :)

So, sin. The word literally means to miss the mark. But first you have to see that there IS a mark to be missed. Take the golden calf Aaron made. Before they were told it was wrong to do, no one did it. They had the gold from day one. But the Ten Commandments were not given for over a month! They were told not to do it, and they turned around and did it. They sinned. A bullseye was created and they were given instructions and they missed it. That is what sin is: to miss the mark. But it's still more than that, so here's the Hebrew for it. (y) ;)
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As i appreciate all the wonderful research that you did......something that i wanted to address is the fact that the Children of Israel made that golden calf prior to Moses coming down with the ten commandments.

And something to think about and to see is that the Children of Israel had the attitude of we can do this without God on their own right before God gave the ten commandments to Moses. And was the reason for the ten commandments. Once their attitudes said that they could obtain salvation and obey God on their own.....God changed His tone and told them to back up from the mountain...and then a month later they had the ten commandments. God had to show them that they indeed needed a Savior..

Blessings!
 
Klub said:
A viewpoint that I see predominantly from word of faith preachers is the idea that everything is good is from God, and everything bad that happens is from the devil.

Things we interpret as bad can be good. Also, what may be bad to some is good from God.
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Klub that is simply not 100 percent correct.
you want to try again ? lol
 
Mykuhl said:
Lol Jim, I have to say that I am liking this new "not 100 percent correct" saying of yours. It puts a smile on my face whenever I read it, for some reason lol!
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A wise Brother and true friend in here turned me on to this.
Thats why he is my brother ! He teaches me a lot of things. ; )
smileys-baseball-653341.gif
God Bless
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Could I just say BOTH ? lol you made that too easy
It is not taught if it is good then it is always of God and if it is bad then it is always from evil.
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You say that as if I made it up off the top of my head. Just my observation from WOF/Charismatic churches.
 
@Abdicate
Brother you know what is the most awesome thing about missing the mark ?
GRACE Brother GREAT GRACE is there waiting for us and if we obeyed and went forth and missed it bigger then life...........we still get the credit for the whole thing and if He needs to He will call someoner else to fix it and make it right.

God is not looking for Perfection BUT a Willing to be Willing Obedient Heart onto Him and wee may have missed it by a mile......but we were obedient and went and did our best and GOD will give us credit for the entire ordeal even if He has to bring in a substitute to fix it.

Now that is liven brother.........Liven by Gods Grace.
Blessings my friend
Jim
 
Klub said:
You say that as if I made it up off the top of my head. Just my observation from WOF/Charismatic churches.
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So does this mean you visited all these churches and stayed with an open heart unto God long enough to grasp what was being taught ?
Because Brother to go around claiming this or that about any ones beliefs is serious business.

No that is what I am saying ?
Blessings Klub
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
So does this mean you visited all these churches and stayed with an open heart unto God long enough to grasp what was being taught ?
Because Brother to go around claiming this or that about any ones beliefs is serious business.

No that is what I am saying ?
Blessings Klub
Jim
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Thats why I specifically said, "A viewpoint that I see predominantly from word of faith preacher" meaning that my exposure, from tv preachers, local churches, people in the church and books, that is what I gathered from it.
Unless I'm not allowed to have a viewpoint that I have gathered from experience.
 
Klub said:
Thats why I specifically said, "A viewpoint that I see predominantly from word of faith preacher" meaning that my exposure, from tv preachers, local churches, people in the church and books, that is what I gathered from it.
Unless I'm not allowed to have a viewpoint that I have gathered from experience.
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Viewpoints are simply ones own understanding.
Any time ( not referring tothis conversation ) some one begins to downgrade ANY ministry no matter if I myself do not have anything to do with them or not, I simply ask from where or how you make these accusations. There is to much judging of Gods servants going on and mis-using scripture to back their play.

So I simply want to know how you arived at this statement. Again this reply to you is just answering your reply and not directed at this conversation.
Blessings
Jim
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Viewpoints are simply ones own understanding.
Any time ( not referring tothis conversation ) some one begins to downgrade ANY ministry no matter if I myself do not have anything to do with them or not, I simply ask from where or how you make these accusations. There is to much judging of Gods servants going on and mis-using scripture to back their play.

So I simply want to know how you arived at this statement. Again this reply to you is just answering your reply and not directed at this conversation.
Blessings
Jim
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I arrived at this statement through talking to people who are a part of the movement, through preachers who are part of it, and through research (books) on the topic. I believe that the word of faith movement has many holes in it, and there is a lot of harm in it, along with the new apostolic reformation movement, charismatic movement and prosperity movement. Often, all of these are linked together.
 
Cturtle said:
As i appreciate all the wonderful research that you did......something that i wanted to address is the fact that the Children of Israel made that golden calf prior to Moses coming down with the ten commandments.

And something to think about and to see is that the Children of Israel had the attitude of we can do this without God on their own right before God gave the ten commandments to Moses. And was the reason for the ten commandments. Once their attitudes said that they could obtain salvation and obey God on their own.....God changed His tone and told them to back up from the mountain...and then a month later they had the ten commandments. God had to show them that they indeed needed a Savior..

Blessings!
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Forgive me dear sister, but please reread starting in Exodus 19. Moses was called up and he talked with God and then he came down, told them all the law and its punishments, in arrogance they said that they could keep it, Exo 24:3, and THEN Moses went back up spoke with Him for 40 days, and got the actual tablets, Exo 31:18. Exo 32 shows what Israel did while Moses was away, they made a molten calf, Exo 32:8. They broke the very first commandment, and because of their arrogance, they lived in bondage to the Law for 1500 years until Jesus came and set us free. Many still choose to live in that prison, even after all that Jesus did for humanity.
 
Klub said:
I arrived at this statement through talking to people who are a part of the movement, through preachers who are part of it, and through research (books) on the topic. I believe that the word of faith movement has many holes in it, and there is a lot of harm in it, along with the new apostolic reformation movement, charismatic movement and prosperity movement. Often, all of these are linked together.
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How any one can come to the place where they call them movements is beyond strage.
You can look back in the 50's and it weas said about "new" understanding of His word and today it is normal. The 60' and 70'and 80'and so forth.

People get bent on ther word prosperity and call it a false teaching and a movement.
Biblical prosperity is in His word. People tend to go running off weith MONEY when they hear prosperity mentioned and this is not incorrect but incomplete for money is only a SMALL portion of biblicsl prosperity.

It is funny how so many Christians fight against a blessed prosperous and healthy Christians as if God wants us all poor broke and sick. rofl
The only holes in the teachings that I have ever found are from those who insist it is wrong and misquote what others say. Even when they use page numbers and so forth. The entire chapter must be also be made known other wise when one takes a line or two and uses them to back their play it is easy to make something false.

If you do not believe me then - take a strol through the forum and write down every time you see a person using a scripture to back their play out of context. It is so easy the educated can do it. lol
 
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Abdicate said:
Forgive me dear sister, but please reread starting in Exodus 19. Moses was called up and he talked with God and then he came down, told them all the law and its punishments, in arrogance they said that they could keep it, Exo 24:3, and THEN Moses went back up spoke with Him for 40 days, and got the actual tablets, Exo 31:18. Exo 32 shows what Israel did while Moses was away, they made a molten calf, Exo 32:8. They broke the very first commandment, and because of their arrogance, they lived in bondage to the Law for 1500 years until Jesus came and set us free. Many still choose to live in that prison, even after all that Jesus did for humanity.
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Am I missing the point here ? It seems that both of you are saying the same thing. They made an image before - prior to moses bringing the tablets down....
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
How any one can come to the place where they call them movementys is beyond strage.
You can look back in the 50's and it weas said about "new" understanding of His word and today it is normal. The 60' and 70'and 80'and so forth.

People get bent on ther word prosperity and call it a false teaching and a movement.
Biblical prosperity is in His word. People tend to go running off weith MONEY when they hear prosperity mentioned and this is not incorrect but incomplete for money is only a SMALL portion of biblicsl prosperity.

It is funny how so many Christians fight against a blessed prosperous and healthy Christians as if God wants us all poor broke and sick. rofl
The only holes in the teachings that I have ever found are from those who insist it is wrong and misquote what others say. Even when they use page numbers and so forth. The entire chapter must be also be made known other wise when one takes a line or two and uses them to back their play it is easy to make something false.

If you do not believe me then - take a strol through the forum and write down every time you see a person using a scripture to back their play out of context. It is so easy the educated can do it. lol
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Exactly! Keep in the word of God and keep away from those that pervert the word of God. God is so awesome! Why would we not want to keep in His sayings rather than what men preach? Let scripture interpret scripture. I beg everyone not to believe a word "I" say, but to study the word of God for themselves, so they can say "The Lord says" not "Brother Abdicate says". I'm a man and subject to the whims of the day, unresolved sin, incorrect teachings by men (including myself) but God! God is faithful to help us ALL see the truth through the Holy Spirit! Right on brother! God bless Jim!
 
Fish Catcher Jim said:
Am I missing the point here ? It seems that both of you are saying the same thing. They made an image before - prior to moses bringing the tablets down....
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Maybe I misunderstood... my understanding is that Gina was saying that they sinned before they got the Law. I said they got the Law then they sinned, hence her "correction" of what I said.
 
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