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Fornication(Sex) so liberal in churches today

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by allani, Jan 7, 2011.

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  1. It used to be the case where churches used to talk straightly about sex and where sex is permitted.that is in marriage as outlined in the Bible
    Now adays, most christians and unbelievers are doing the same. Sleeping with each other in the name of love.
    Why is the church not making it clear to youth these days?Is it a sign of the end days?
  2. I see this sometimes too. In fact, some churches take it even further. There is an open assumption that it's going to happen, so just accept it and move on. Never condemn it.

    However, it needs to be made clear that it is sinful behavior. I believe we need to do so without condemning and judging the people. We still have to minister to them, but without giving tacit approval of their sins.
  3. Sigh. You know what really disappoints me more than anything - people treating sex like it is some horrible, dirty thing.

    It's not. It really isn't. It really hurts me to see, though, how horribly people treat it - not just in church but in real life situations.

    I know this is probably terribly off topic, but it is disappointing sometimes to see people in the real world treat sex as if it is like going to the candystore and picking out anything you want, never treating it with any respect. In actuality, people just simply take destroy the beauty of sex and make it grotesque and ugly.

    Like I said, I know I probably went off topic, but it's just been bugging me a lot. It's a beautiful act, but we've nearly destroyed it with our own stupidity, ignorance, and sinfulness.

    I know someone's probably going to spit on what I said, but whatever.
  4. Anyone who spits on your post has to go through me first. This was a beautiful statement. Sex was created by God. The desire for sex was given to us by God. The pleasure from sexual intimacy was given to us by God. It is Satan who has twisted this pure and holy act through fantasy, pornography, adultery, and fornication.
    Mr. Black likes this.
  5. Goodness.

    This is a touchy subject for lots of people. When it comes to sexual immorality in the church, the Bible gives uncompromising standards that the church should be operating under.

    First off, no church has any right whatsoever to condone sexual immorality within the congregation. The OT law that God gave asigned the death penalty for the willful engaging of it. I'm not suggesting that we ought to seek that sort of penalty for people who do that nowadays, but the fact that God prescribed the full penalty of death for it should give us a clue as to how God views this sort of behavior within the congregation of His people. In the New Testament, the Greek word that's commonly used to denote sexual immorailty is πορνεία (porneia), which broadly refers to all types of sexual immorality. Jesus spoke explicitly about it being a sin ( Matthew 15:19 , Mark 7:21 , Revelation 2:14 , Revelation 9:20 , Revelation 2:21 . So did Paul, ( Acts 15:20 , Acts 15:29 , Acts 21:25 , Galatians 5:19 , Ephesians 5:3 , Colossians 3:5 , 1 Thessalonians 4:3 <---Paul, Silvanus and Timothy wrote the epistle to the Thessalonians).
    In his first epistle to the church at Corinth, Paul gives a clear solution to the problem. In the fifth chapter he begins in verses 1 & 2 ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-2 ) by rebuking the church for standing by and allowing sexual immorality to take place within body of Christ, and then he chastizes them for being arrogant about it, rather than removing the guilty persons from the congregation. In verses 5 & 6 ( 1 Corinthians 5:5-6 ) he explains that a little bit of sin on the part of a few members of a congregation poisons the entire congregation with an analogy of leaven in a lump of dough. In verse 11 ( 1 Corinthians 5:11 ) he gives clear instructions to the church members not to associate with any members of the congregation who're guilty of sexual immorality (or even to eat with one). He concludes the chapter in verse 13 ( 1 Corinthians 5:13 ) by giving the instruction to remove these people from among us. In the following chapter, in verse 13, ( 1 Corinthians 6:13 ) he states that the body is not meant for sexual sins, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. We were created to love and serve God, and to be loved and nurtured by Him.

    I know there's this sort of knee-jerk reaction to the word "judge", but the Bible gives at least four different deffinitions for the word, and we're actually commanded to judge between right and wrong. Paul made it clear that he had already pronouced judgment on the one committing the sexual sin ( 1 Corinthians 5:3 ). He seems to indicate that all members of the congregation ought to follow suit by making the same judgments when they encounter this sort of thing within the church by instructing us to expel the persons who engage in this sort of behavior from the congregation. He seems to reiterate this in verse 12 ( 1 Corinthians 5:12 ).

    I'm not suggesting (nor do I think Paul was suggesting) that we should go to extremes and immediately, cold-heartedly, expel anyone and everyone from the congregation as soon as they commit a single sexual sin. Nor do I think he wants us to withold our love from those persons or to condemn them to hell. Only God knows what choices they'll make in the future and where they'll ultimately go. Everyone backslides at times. Sometimes people backslide and committ a sexual sin or two without making a habit out of it. But if they do make a regular habit of it, or even go so far as to try to justify it and encourage other members of the congregation to accept it as Christian behavior, or if they try to rebuke anyone who comdemns sexual sin in the church, then God, in the form of Jesus, and through paul, gives us instructions on how to deal with it. I suggest a member of the church in question ought to (1) approach them out of love and real concern for, not only the wellbeing of the persons committing the sins, but for the whole congregation as well, and respectfully reason with the persons in question from the Scriptures on God's instructions concerning the matter. If the persons refuse to acknowledge God's clear commands and turn away from sin, then the other member ought to bring two or three others and speak with the sinning persons again. If the sinning person still refuse, they ought to tell the whole church. If the sinning persons refuse yet again to do what's right after that, then for the good of the whole body of Christ, they ought to remove those persons from the congregation so that others will not be led away from God as well. I think Jesus' instructions in Matthew 18:15-17 , and Paul's instructions in 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15 reflect this method quite well. The point is to (1) bring the sinning brother (or sister) to repentance. If the brother or sister refuses, we're to (2) take action to protect the rest of the congregation.
    Yes, its devisive, but that's the point. Neither Jesus nor His Apostles wants "unity" between those who love and obey God, and those who reject God and scoff at His commands. The truth naturally separates people who believe in God and worship Him from those who claim to believe in God and pretend to worship Him.

    I would encourage everyone to not take my word for it on this. Instead, go to the verses I cited and read, not just the verses, but all of the passages in question (or more if needed) to get the full context, so that you can see for yourself.

    When members of the church look the other way and allow these sorts of sins to happen despite God's commands, then, in time, it poisons the whole congregation as they become demoralized. As they do, they become less reliant on God and, having already rejected His commands they no longer feel the need to obey them and heed warnings against disobedience. They naturally cherish His Word as a whole less and less and no longer live their lives by it. The church inevitably disintegrates and becomes a pseudo-christian cult that proclaims Christ's name, yet rejects His Word, deriving their beliefs from, and living their lives according to, their own desires, rather than the truth.

    God bless
    HeisallIneed, Rumely and allani says Amen and like this.
  6. Oh, Bana, thank you so much. Really.
  7. It would be totally wrong for someone in the church or a believe to treat sex as dirty or bad thing. That is already going against what God has already created. He created it so it would be enjoyed but the place of enjoyment was specific and Mr Black has made it totally clear with backup scriptures.

    I think the devil is attacking the core values of the church
  8. I'm not sure if it's happened to you all, but with many people I've encountered, they've given sex a bad rap.
    allani likes this.
  9. A bad rap? Is that the current PC position? Just as has been presented here, sex has a purpose that is multi-faceted and none of that is to learn how to do it. Today Satan has so swayed people away from following God that they can no longer read the Bible! We are called, by God, to become one flesh with the partner we have promised(that's a life-long commitment) to love. Any sex without or outside of marriage is fornication and sends you to Hell!

    When was the last time you read your Bible through, from, In The beginning to the last Amen of Revelation 22? We are taught to study to show ourselves approved, not to get on the Free Love Train to Hell!
    allani likes this.
  10. I hope this was not directed at me, because I don't want you thinking I'm some dimwit who listens to everything that comes out of people's mouths. Because I am not.

    I am only presenting experiences I've had with people and their screwed up opinions. Please don't take it that I am just sitting on my behind not doing anything.

    Seriously. I'm really tired of people making assumptions.

    I'm tired, and upset, and ready to cry.
  11. I understand what you are saying, NTG, and I agree with it. While it is sin to engage in sex outside of God's design for it, it is also a sin to cast something which God created to be a blessing as dirty and shameful. We must view it as something precious since God created it from the beginning, before the Fall, for our good and His glory and we therefore ought to protect it (by experiencing it as God intended and designed it and in its proper context) just as we protect and care for all things we cherish. It would horrify anyone with any appreciation of art if someone cut a painting by Rembrandt or Manet or Matisse out of its frame and taped it to the bathroom wall of a gas station and drew a mustache on the portrait. Because such paintings are valuable and beautiful, we hang them in galleries and protect and preserve and care for them so that we may enjoy them in their pristine condition.
    allani likes this.
  12. The relevant abnormal/excessive sexual activity is not possible without the presence(availability) of (the) relevant (sexual) unclean spirit(-s)(curse). This which feeds them is namely that religious activity by/in which certain humans are systematically cursed, which usually is based on (the) service of certain wisdom/prophecies of satan(unrighteousness). If the judgment/sorcery be stopped and the curse (be) destroyed then there shall be no more unclean sexuality. For example: very typical unclean sexual spirit is "kundalini", because (it) is based on the false/reversed/opposite/contrary belief in which the sex(-uality) is (ostensibly) the "firstborn sin". After so many thousands of years spiritual profanation/desecration of the sex(-uality), now is difficult for human to determine which sexuality is absolutely clean/normal, principally(in fact) only the true Lord God knows and can (to) set the perfect condition.
  13. I thought kundalini was a form of yoga that was supposed to elevate the practitioner to a higher level of consciousness or some other New Age mumbo-jumb0. Not an evil spirit. People do not need evil spirits to fornicate. They just need to give up their self control and feelings of self worth.
  14. Abstinence/Continence or not, only God knows and can Best about each human/inspired soul - every one is different/unique, and everybody may prove in (a) different/unique situation:

    Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 "That which hath been is named already, and it is known that it is man: neither may he contend with him that is mightier than he. Seeing there be many things that increase vanity, what is man the better? For who(ie Figure/Remember Who is the Being) knoweth what is good for man in this life, all the days of his vain life which he spendeth as a shadow? for who can tell a man what shall be after him under the sun?"
  15. IMO it is not preached on is for one reason........MONEY.

    If a preacher condemmns it and calls it what it is, he will absolutley anger many people in the congregation. That will lead to fault finding, complaining and argueing and sooner or later they leave in order to find a church that does not condemmn sin. Not because the preacher was wrong, but because he was in fact RIGHT and instead of repenting, they blame him. That means lost income from those that leave.

    YES it is just that simple.
  16. I am an intern to the youth at my church, and I make it a point to say that sex is intended only in the institution of marriage. Most of these kids are coming from private schools and have been raised in the church. They know my story and how I am a new believer and have done things I regret in my past, especially because of my relationship with Christ now. They seem to really listen and heed my words as I have had experiences with things that may tempt them. You are right that sex seems to be all over the place--with believers as much as unbelievers. It seems a large part of this should be pinned on the media. Look at a sitcom like Andy Griffith compared to something on TV today, completely changed morals.

    I have heard that it is not brought up as much in churches today, but my church seems to do a pretty good job about what sex is and when it is appropriate.
  17. I agree with MAJOR. Money and pride in attendence figures prevent what the old Puritans refered to as "searching sermons".
    Let's take a test: 1) Channel surf your television ,from bottom to top,now...We'll wait for you 2)How many short dressed/low bloused females did you see?3) If you stayed at each channel longer than one minute, how many times was sex mentioned/alluded to by gesture or action?
    And I mean the chief offenders,as far as I am concerned,is the "announcers" on the Weather Channel, CNN,Fox, The Shopping Channel, and other such outlets. Never mind the situation "comedies"!!!
    And how many "Christian" men don't try and limit their viewing of this type temptation? It's not easy.

    Julian of York
    "And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness, quietness and assurance forever." Isaiah 32:17
  18. The sexual worries just have/need to be ignored directly by the the Acts of the all-round/universal (Holy) Salvage/Salvation, which firstly may to be only through the mind, by the Opinion/Thought for the concern of (the) all human/soul beings.
    If some believer hate the sex, than it becomes vulnerable for satan, because the sex is one of the God's Creations. After the first sin, the "darkness"(satan) used namely the sex for weapon against: the humans, the Creation, and (the) God, by it profanation/desecration/violation. Namely the profanation/desecration/violation of the God's Creation is main reason for the inability/failure of the believers/clerics.
    And so, the believers must (to) Respect and Honor the sex and the all other Creations of the Holy Lord God. For example: i do not (any) sex(-ual activity), but i Consecrate it through the right prayer and the right fasting. Of course that if someone from the nonbelievers or the believers have need of sexual relationships, then it is free to have Normal such.
    And so, you can abstain from sexual excessiveness?, ok, the true Lord God is on/in your side, or, you can not abstain from sexual excessiveness?, ok, the true Lord God has for Purpose to Heal and Cure(-d) you, because namely this is His Job/Role/Task for/in the all/entire Endless universe.
    Before years i also was enemy of the sex, but after the true Lord God make me to Love the human/soul beings even and when they are sexual and when they make sex, and i began to Love them even (and) when i seeing how they make love publicly - in fact, many of us have delighted/admired in/to the enamoured young couples when we have seen them to hug/embrace and kiss each other on the streets - actually this Good feeling(-s) never is not unknown/unfamiliar to us.
    We just can be Good without any spoil/self-seeking/self-interests, just as we start and continue to seek the benefits for the others without to seeking/expecting any benefit for itself/ourselves/us.
    If you encounter something sexual(-ly)-excitingly, just start to Think about the Showing of God's Love to the other human/soul beings, do not give, just be Good without (trying) to please itself/your passions - just, if necessary, learn yourself to be enough perfect in this.
    Genesis 2:20-25 "but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.",
    Genesis 3:1-7 "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.",
    Matthew 19:3-6 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.",
    1 Timothy 4:1-9 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.",
    Colossians 2:20-23 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
  19. Our grandson recently came in from third grade talking about how he knew how girls got pregnant. His mother was somewhat astonished, and continued the conversation to see where it would go. They had hot dogs at school that day and some of the guys thought it would be cute to demonstrate with a hot dog and explain the facts of life to those who as yet where not privy to that knowledge. She agreed and told him yeah, that is what happens, and let it go. I wanted to make sure it wasn't left there, and when he came to our house, I asked him to explain what they were talking about at school. He told me what he had learned about the physical aspects of sex, and I told him he was right...but that was only a small part of what sex is. Then I was able to explain to him that sex is a beautiful part of life that God created for humans to enjoy after marriage. I told him that God's gifts are given to us to use in certain ways, or they would not be a blessing, but would cause heart ache and pain possibly for a lifetime if misused. We talked about how some people think it is OK to have sex at any time anywhere, but that was not what God wants for us. We can do that, but we take the chance of changing God's plans for us forever. Then we talked about what can happen when we have sex, and that it just takes one time for a girl to become pregnant. As a guy, I told him that he would have to be ready to accept the responsibility of a child, which meant that he would have to support that child financially and other ways, as long as the child lived. He would be setting aside or giving up things that seem important and he'd really like to do, like playtime and sports are now, to hold down a job that would pay for the needs of him, the girl who was pregnant, and the baby. He would need to be ready to get up at night with a crying baby who would not stop crying, to feed a baby at all hours, to change poopy diapers and clean up vomit when the child throws up. All these things were part of becoming a parent, which can happen after one sexual experience. We also talked about respecting girls, as well as his relationship with the Lord, how this is not a conversation to have with others in a crude way, and that hot dogs have nothing to do with it!!! His older brother was listening to the whole conversation, just glad that he hadn't been the one to bring up the subject! We need to have these conversations on an ongoing basis with our children and grandchildren, because if we don't, there are voices out in the world who will tell them, but in crude ways, having nothing to do with the truth of God's love for us in the gift of sex.
  20. Yes, this is cool, i also teach my sons about all important things in the sex, and this certainly helps. I often explain them about the negative spirits, that in the sex also is possible to encounter some sexual unclean spirits which may establish bad feelings and unfavorable effects and consequences. My big son once complained to me that when at a party watching perverted sex movie had begun to feel increasing burning and depressive feelings. After, i explained to him that only the natural beauty which is/come from the God is Pure/Clean and Perfect, and showed him one bottle with clean water and (an-)other with dirty/brown water, and told that the difference between the God's Love and the devil's sex is similar: if you make perverse sex, (then) you may(be) drink "something" as/like dirty water.
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