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Flesh and Bones

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Complete, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. I saw the following comment on 1 Corinthians 15:45, "The first man, Adam, was made a living soul (psuche): the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit pneuma." (small 's').

    Here, pneuma is used of the resurrection body of Christ, which had "flesh and bones," but not "flesh and blood"; for "flesh and blood" cannot enter into the ki gdom of heaven (see Luke 24:39, and compare 1 Corinthians 15:50).

    We have no means of knowing what the first man was, as created of God. We have no means of knowing how great was the "fall," or what the change was which then took place in what had been created. There is no mention of "blood" till after the fall. That it became very different from the Resurrection body we are told. That it was very different from the first created body is clearly implied.

    The resurrection body is a spirit-body; yet it will not be like either that of angels or demons, which are merely pneumata or spiritual beings.

    Nor is it like that of human beings.

    To understand what the human body will be when it is raised from the dead, and "changed," and made like unto Christ's risen and glorified body (Philippians 3:21), we must remember all that we are told about that body.

    As the "Son of Man," "born of a woman," Christ was a "living soul," and had a human body of "flesh and blood." This was in incarnation. But i. Ressurrection He " became life-giving pneuma."

    The present psychical, "natural," or human body of "flesh and blood" has "blood" for the life thereof." (see Genesis 9:4; Leviticus 17:11 and 14; and Deuteronomy 12:23) But the risen body has no "blood"; it is "flesh and bones." Instead of "blood," it has pneuma for its life. This pneuma gives life immortal and eternal to the risen body. Therefore it is called "life-giving pneuma" (not life-giving "blood").

    What the "blood" is to the human body, pneuma will be to the resurrection body. "Blood" is the life of the human body, and therefore there can be no immortality for the body "except it die": except it gives up its blood. Hence the necessity of the Saviour's "shedding of blood." This was necessary to the laying down of the life of the "first Adam," so that, in resurrection, He might become - not again "a living soul" - but, instead, "the second man," "a life-giving pneuma," as "the last Adam."

    Man, as man, has nothing to give or to get, in "exchange for his life," or "living soul." But for those "in Christ" there will be a blessed and glorious "exchange." This exchange will be "the gift of God"; for "God giveth it a body, as it hath pleased Him" (1 Corinthians 15:38).

    As "living soul," man lisses pneuma in a material organism; and food is absolutely necessary to preserve and keep up the vital connection and relation. But, in the resurrection body, while it is able to partake of food (Psalm 78:25, Matthew 26:29; Acts 10:41), the pneuma itself will preserve, for ever, this vital connection. Hence it is then called "life-giving pneuma." Thus, life-giving pneuma will be to the future resurrection body what blood is now to the present human body.

    We know how food is disposed of in the human body, or "living soul." But we know nothing of what becomes of it in the spiritual body which has a life-giving pneuma. We know full well that that body will not be more limited i. its powers than the human body. We cannot imagine what those wondrous powers will be. We kniw only what is revealed; and this, only "in part." It is useless, therefore, for us to speculate.

    We know that the body, in Genesis 2:7, had an existence (but not life) apart from pneuma; but only as formed clay, or "dust." The pneuma also had a separate existence with God before it was breathed into the body. The body is of dust, and to dust it will return. The pneuma is Divine, and therefore immortal. At death, man becomes "a dead soul": because the pneuma, its life, "returns to God Who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

    Body and Spirit united, is called man, or "a living soul": but separated in death man becomes "a dead soul."

    This very expression is used in Numbers 9:6, 7, 10, in which passages tge Hebrew expression "dead soul" is translated, "dead body", without a word i. the margin to show the English reader that such a serious change has been made. It is actually rendered, "body," in Leviticus 21:11; Numbers 6:6; 19:11, 13. The word "soul" is also rendered "dead" in Leviticus 19:28; 21:1; 22:4: Numbers 5:2; 6:11; Haggai 2:13, where again, is no intimation that this is the case.

    All these passages prove the fact that, at death, which is the separation of spirit and body, man, who had been "a living soul," becomes a "dead soul." And that it is only in resurrection that the spirit and body are re-united and raised again in the likeness of Christ (Philippians 3:21). Man becomes, not again a "living soul," but "a spiritual body"; and has "a life-giving pneuma." Hence the vital importance of the doctrine of resurrection; which is the distinguishing article of the Christian Faith; marking it off as being absolutely distinct from man's "religions," which have no place for resurrection.

    Spirit-beings, like angels or demons, who have never had a material body, are never spoken of as "souls," or called "living soul."

    All we know about the resurrection body, at present, is revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:42-53.

    Praise God!

    (Ref: 'The Giver and His Gifts' by Dr E.W. Bullinger)

    In Christ Jesus
    our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.


    PS. Please forgive any spelling mistakes or typo's, but this has been typed with one finger on my Kindle.
  2. I would suggest that the fall can in some measure be known by the last 6000 years for one thing . But primarily it can be know the awfulness of it by the crucifixion . For there we see the awful nature of sin and what sinners are capable of.

    in Christ
  3. Thank you, @geralduk,

    For taking the time to read through my entry, and for responding. I agree with you.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
  4. Im not sure though that I understand your point that we do not know what the first man was.

    For while blood was not mentioned .The first indirect mention was in God sacraficing am animal to give them a covering of animal skins and then Abel offering the blood of a lamb .
    The first Adam was a man even as you and I are .save at his creation he was without sin.
    If he had not of that tree God had told them not to eat .He would still be walkign this earth today .
    He was the first Adam.
    The last Adam who was Jesus Christ also was without sin and he too was a man and if he had not willingly laid down His life for sin and for our sakes "according to the scriptures and the promise of God in the garden of eden, He too would never have died and would still be walkign this earth today in the flesh even as he was born .

    The first Adam was created with so much life in him that it took 800 odd years fro that death that now reigned and wrought in him to manifest itself.
    and the body capable of living and never dying .died.
    The last Adam was given a body even as the scriptures say of it "a body hast thou prepared for me"
    But even as this body will be 'sown' into the earth a new and glorious body will arise at the appointed hour.
    For what is sown looks liek nothing that is manifested after it dies.
    Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever.
    The same body that died accordign to the scriptures was the same body that rose again from the dead .Save now it is flesh and bone .For it is a glorious body quickened by the Holy Spirit the glory of God.
    So then ours and the purchased possession ready to eb revealed will be clothed with immortality and corruption shall put on incorruption.

    God has not changed . For this too was accordign to the will of God even from the beginning.
    For Adam was given the liberty to eat not only of every tree that was good to eat in the garden .But he was also givcen the liberfty to eat of the tree of life .
    and thus put off the corruptable life and put on incorruption.
    But is it not written? "The a rm of flesh will fail you"?
    So now so then.,
    But the first Adam who failed in a paradise the last Adam conquered in a wilderness.

    in Christ
  5. What kind of body did Lazarus have when he was raised from the dead? Was it a spiritual body or a physical body. What kind of body did Jesus have when he was raised from the dead? It was the same body he had that was buried in the grave, except without the blood for Jesus bled out on the cross. What kind of bodies came out of their graves the day Jesus was raised from the dead, and all the tombs opened up, and these people went into the town and shewed them self's to everyone. Jesus did not receive his spiritual body until he ascended to his Father, and that was only after forty days of showing his resurrected physical body to every proving he was alive. They all had physical bodies. Jesus's body was physical because he said so. "...for a spirit does not have flesh, and bone as you see me have..." Spiritual beings do not have a physical body, nor do they have "flesh, and bone". Spiritual beings have spiritual bodies. The last Adam (Jesus Christ) was made a life giving spirit, not a life giving flesh, and bone.
    Tell me, can a flesh, and bone being dwell inside another flesh, bone, and blood person? Absolutely not!!! A person with a spiritual body can. How can Jesus Christ himself dwell within each of his saints if he has a flesh, and bone body? He can not!! We are the body of Christ, and his spirit lives in us.

    2Co 13:5... Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

    Gal 4:6... And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    crownoflife likes this.
  6. #6 Complete, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    'But ye are not in the flesh,
    but in the Spirit,
    if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
    Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ,
    he is none of His.'

    (Rom 8:9)

    Hello @CCW95A,

    Your contention that Jesus body, when raised from the dead, was 'physical', and did not become 'spiritual' until He ascended into heaven: does not account for the fact, evidenced in John 20:26, that our Lord could appear in a room, the doors being shut; or that He could appear or disappear at will. That does not sound very much like a physical body to me, I can't do that, can you?

    For a belief to be true it has to have a scriptural basis for it, and this assumption of yours does not, CCW.

    As for Christ dwelling within us, necessitating that He have a spiritual body, He does not dwell in us bodily, CCW95A. He dwells with us by the Holy Spirit, whose new nature now dwells within us. 'Pneuma-Christou' (Christ's spirit, or Christ-spirit - Romans 8:9) the new nature which makes us, 'Sons of God'

    'And because ye are sons,
    God hath sent forth
    the Spirit of His Son
    into your hearts,
    crying, "Abba, Father."'

    (Gal 4:6)

    Praise His Name!

    With love, In Christ Jesus
  7. Christ does have a resurrection body, which is spiritual, but He is still flesh and bones.
    Son of Man as well as Son of God.

    Praise God!

    Major likes this.
  8. #8 CCW95A, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    Sister, scriptural basis is what I use for everything I say. What part of this scripture is false. Is this true to you?

    2Co 13:5... Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
    crownoflife likes this.
  9. #9 CCW95A, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    Did Jesus have a physical body when he walked on water? You do know it is impossible for a physical body to walk on water. With what body did Jesus walk right through the "mist" of those who wanted to push him off a cliff? With what body did Jesus have when he was found on the other side side of the sea without having a boat to get there? Jesus walking through a wall is no more miraculous then Jesus walking on water, and that with a physical body!!

    Do evil spirits have a spiritual body? Can they inhabit a physical body? Does Satan have a spiritual body, or is he just like a puff of smoke floating around the air like Casper the ghost? Do angels who are spirits have spiritual bodies?
    crownoflife likes this.
  10. I fear your posts are simply to generate a 'debate' that will only make good ground for the devil to work his mischief.

    The body of Lazerus was the same body that was buried . He died later and will inherit the promised possession.

    The MAN Christ Jesus whom God has appointed heir of all things and Lord of all who even now sitteth on the right hand side of the power on high .
    Has both a body of flesh and bone and is THE Only begotten Son of God .
    He who was raised from the dead sits upon the throne and the SAME Jesus who walked this earth and over 500 saw him ascend into heaven will be the same Jesus of the same body whos feet will once agai touch the mount of lives.
    The church which is His body ;He beign its HEAD and the GOVERNMENT shall be upon His shoulders is both a spiritual body beign of ONE Spirit ;for theyw ho are joined to the Lord are of one Spirit .
    You say HOW and then try and reason by your unbelief .
    I amy not know how , but I start with believing ALL of scripture first and asking God for the understanding.
    The disciples thought he was a ghost a 'spirit' but he allayed thier fears and says does a spirit have flesh and bone?
    and to one he at some point invited to put his finger in his wounds to prove it was he.

    Christ is in me . But it si the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit the Spirit of truth . and I am in Him.
    He would not have come if the Lord had not left .
    The holy Spirit is another Comforter to take the place of Him who was thier comfort .Jesus and even as they knew Him they also know the Holy Spirit.
    For all that Jesus was ;the Holy Spirit is .if not more .
    and this self same Holy Spirit will show the things that are mine and will bear witness of me .

    If then Jesus of flesh and bone now sits on the right hand side of the majesty on High then the Spirit of Christ was sent forth .
    A throne is a place of rest . Where the King sits and waits till all his enemeies coem to his feet.

    in Christ
  11. Brother, you do know that the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ!!! neither is the Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit. This is why scripture tells us to "examine yourself, do you not know that Jesus Christ is in you unless you be of a reprobate mind" (2 Cor 13:5)

    Can a person be "born of the Spirit", and yet not be filled with the Spirit? Whats the deal there? Do we have to be filled with the Holy Spirit before Jesus Christ dwells inside his Church? Absolutely not!!! Why? Because the Holy Spirit is not Jesus Christ!!!
  12. You not not right. If the devil is going to promote "mischief" it will be because he wants us to believe Jesus has a "flesh, and bone body" which is not true!!
  13. I believe that he is right.

    After the resurrection, Jesus said in Luke 24:39...........
    "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have,".

    You see it right there in the black and white (Red & white) Jesus specifically stated that He had flesh and bones--not flesh and blood. This may seem like a word game to many people, but it is not. Every word is inspired in the Bible, and Jesus chose His words for a reason. Remember, Jesus' blood was drained out of His body on the cross. It is His shed blood that cleanses us of our sins. Again the Word of God which YOU say YOU glen all your knowledge from says in 1 John 1:7..........
    "but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin,".

    Jesus was the sacrifice, and His blood cleanses us. Therefore, flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, but flesh and bones can.

    It is Biblically correct to say that Jesus is a man right now in Heaven--though a glorified man. But, it would be wrong to say He was only a man. He is both divine and human in nature at the same time as stated in Colossians 2:9. He is both God and man right now. Now that is what the Word of God says my brother and you have said it is the Bible from which you look to. So do I and there it is for you to read.

    Furthermore, Jesus' humanity now is important for two reasons. First, this is what the Bible teaches. Second, as a man, Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. As a priest, He forever intercedes for us.

    Hebrews 6:20...........
    "where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek,".

    Hebrews 7:25............
    "Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them,".

    In order to be a priest, Jesus has to be a man. A spirit cannot be a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and if Jesus is not a man now, He could not hold His priesthood, and He could not be forever interceding for us. Therefore, to deny Jesus' present humanity is to deny His priesthood and His intercession on our behalf. Without His intercession, we are lost.
    Complete likes this.
  14. CCW......May I ask you a simple question> I am any way but wanted your approval. Do you believe that 'Jesus Only' is God, not the Holy Spirit or the Father.

    I ask that because you seem to be talking all around that question without actually saying it.
  15. Brother, is Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit? Is God the Father Jesus Christ? Is the Holy Spirit God the Father? If you don't know the answer, the answer is no!! They are separate but "one" Lord. Is God "one"? What makes God one? Does God have a body? What is his body? What makes God "one" is his body!!! Who is God's body?

    Col 2:9.. For in him (Jesus Christ) the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

    Can a man have the Father without the Son? Nope. Can a person have the Holy Spirit without the Son? Nope! Without Jesus Christ you can not have any part of God, because all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus Christ.

    Who is Jesus? He is the Glory of the Father.
    crownoflife likes this.
  16. #16 Complete, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    Hello @CCW95A,

    What can I say? Yes, God did many miraculous works, confirming the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The Lord Jesus Christ, Himself, only ever did and said what His Father did and said: He never acted independantly. Entering a room without recourse to normal means was not a miraculous work: if it were a miracle we would have been told so.

    I see no point in continuing to discuss this, CCW95A, for other members have already said what can be said, to no avail.

    May God give grace.
    In Christ Jesus
  17. Sister, are you trying to say I am being steadfast in what I believe? I would say that is a good thing. :)
  18. Yes, indeed, CCW95A

    However, my friend, do be careful that you are not in error. For that would be so very sad, for you, and for those you may influence.

    In Christ Jesus
    Major likes this.
  19. As long as you are 100% sure in what you believe is true, and not doubt, or else that is sin. "......What ever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23)
    crownoflife likes this.
  20. Hello again, CCW95A,

    Please know that what I say to you, I say to myself too. We all need to come to God's Word and measure what we believe against what is written, and be willing to unlearn as well as learn, don't we?

    In Christ Jesus
    Major likes this.

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