First Church?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Sweet Pea, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. That goes without saying. I'd even go further in saying God name came before anything as He simply always just has been and never came into existence...though I know what you meant and I'm sure you'd agree with me, too.

    We're getting into semantics -- the point I was addressing was the Chritinized terms and traditions that had pagan origins. But just because it had pagan origins doesn't mean the practices when done in glory to God becomes paganism, provided He's the focus of worship. You are right in saying Christ wants nothing in our way of worshiping Him, whether that be saints, friends, our selves, and especially idols as that would go even further in rejecting Him altogether in a really bad way.

    No, the Catholic Church can't simply "make a saint" as only God can make saints. Though the Church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, can proclaim what God has done with an individual. If the Church could just "make it so," then I suspect people like Mother Therese or Pope JP II would have been canonized as saints by now because of how much they are recognized in their service to God...but the process isn't just a matter at looking at their lives and saying "YEP--they were true Christians and did good!" If often requires a series of miracles linked with the individuals, and the miracles have to be evaluated extremely closely. This is why so many of the alleged "miracles" that have been brought out by the media haven't been confirmed. Some are still being reviewed after 30 or 40 years. If its unclear, then it often can't get confirmed as it would be a risk of undermining God's authority.

    Did you want to get back to the discussion of Father since that wasn't really cleared up yet, or would you prefer to let it rest?
     
  2. Lets get back to the discussion of the father in a few days, I want to go back and do a little bit of studying if thats ok, do some research, a little bit of praying on the subject, does that sound good to you come back with some clear minds on the issue, and we will address it in two to three days.
     
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  4. I like that idea :)
     
  5. Wanted to jump in here if I may. All one needs to do to see if they are following the exact original church teachings is to First go and start with the Book of Acts. Chapters One and Two tells us how the Apostles obeyed what Jesus commanded them to do before he assended back to heaven.
    ( Luke 24 v 44-49) notice in verse 49 Jesus tells them to await in Jerusalem " Until you be ended with power from on high" ( The Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit)

    120 were in the upper room to hear the first Christian Church message, delivered by Apostle Peter. In Acts 2 v 37 after Peter finished his message to the potential converts they asked " Men and Brethren , what shall we do"? Here is verbatim what Peter told them what they must do to become real Christians and be in the Body of Christ ( The Church)

    verse 38 " Then Peter said unto them (1) Repent (2) And be baptized EVERYONE of you in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST (3) For the remission of sins (4) And YOU SHALL receive the Gift of the HOLY GHOST".

    4 things he stated a person must do to become a true Christian and Child of Christ.

    Sooooo who changed this given formula?
    Apostle Paul warned the Church about wolves in sheep' s clothing not sparing the flock ( Acts 16 verses 25-31). This should really not surprise or shock any Bible believing child of Jesus.

    The first lie recorded is from Ole Satan himself.....Genesis 3 v 1 " Yea, Hath God Said"? when he cast doubt on what God had warned Adam not to ever do...about.eating from the Tree of Good and Evil. Eve fell for the doubt of God' s words, and had her ears tickled by Satan' s promise of being like gods, and as wise as God. She fell for it..Hook...Line...and Sinker.

    And so Thousands upon Thousands of years later; People have listened to Satan about this really does' not mean this or really mean that.....and Viola!! We have hundreds maybe thousands of various.Religions, Denominations, Faiths, and Cults all claiming to have the truth, or the right stairway to heaven or wherever they teach they will go after they.die.

    Brothers and Sisters it is past time to teach ourselves and others to just stick with the book and nothing else. If Jesus wanted us to beleive, and do anything outside his Holy and truthful word he would have instructed the Apostles to teach.and record it. Why would God.Himself want to hide from us his true desires?. Before I accept any doctrine or tetching by whoever...I check my Bible first, Last, and Always.

    Wanting to go to heaven and live with Jesus takes dedication and patience. We have his promises..let us just obey all his teachings and that of his Apostles in his Original and Holy Church. Thank You everybody...God Bless!!
     
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  7. You are 100% correct. No name of this church, just guidelines to observe and follow.
    In that simple church...no Apostle ever Water Baptized a child or a baby. It never happened in the first century church. No person was ever Water Baptized in the titles of " Father, Son, and Holy Ghost". This is just two of many differences one can discover by reading the entire book of Acts...and The Epistles written by The Apostles and not a Johnny- come-lately preacher who came after the First Century founded only Church.
     
  8. SweetPea: Welcome :)

    Forgive me if I sound philosophical, but I like to be thorough. Your question requires one to ask the question that Pilate asked of Jesus, "What is truth?" You can have historical truth to answer your question, or you could have man's truth, and then there's God's truth. The dictionary definition of church is:
    In the scriptures, Jesus was the first to use the word ἐκκλησία (ekklesia) and it means a called out assembly of citizens. So scripturally speaking the first church was Jesus and the 12 disciples because He called them out to follow Him. The different denominations, of which there are over 40,000 under the name Christian, stem from personal wants, self-interpretations, and the effects of seeking for glory or power over others. This is why when Jesus returns and many say "Lord, Lord" He'll reply:

    I hope this answers your question. God Bless!
     
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  10. I agree....and when Jesus asks them ( Spiritually speaking) Who among you did what Apostle Peter told the first converts exactly to do in Acts 2 38? How many can honestly raise their hands and glad fully tell him " We did Lord" The Bible teaches us " To obey, is better then Sacrifice" John 4 v 24 also says this: " God is a Spirit; and those that worship him MUST worship him in Spirit and in TRUTH" amen
     
  11. As with baptism the Bible specifically tells us what to do and under who name and even gives the believer many examples of baptism, only one name that is above all names Jesus Christ.
     
  12. Michael B....Amen Brother!!
     
  13. Let me try to make this clear. We know them by their fruit, not miracles. I have laid hands on the sick with amazing results and instant healing. This does not make me special, it just means I believe the Word and step out in faith. This does not make me right with God, it just means God used me because I believed.

    God also used a Donkey to save a Prophets life. We don't pray to the talking donkey, and Nobody better pray to me though I have evidence of real so called "Miracles" that every believe should walk in.

    Peter said why look at me as if my own holiness made this man whole who stands before you. It had nothing to do with Peter being an Apostle, or Peters walk with God. Peter said it was faith in the name of Jesus that made this man strong and whom you have known.

    If this is the method of finding "Real" people of God, then the method is unscriptural and broken. Flee things that practice such nonsense and believe right.

    They said, have we not cast out devils in your name, performed miracles. Jesus saying depart from me you workers of iniquity for I know you not. Gifts and callings are without repentance, the Holy Spirit operating through someone is a free gift and does not determine the state of the person or the fruit they bare.

    Fruit is determined by character, not miracles, or things God does through the Holy Spirit.
    If what you say be the case, then Balaam's Donkey who could speak would also be something to reverence. I'll pass.......
     
    Ricko1 likes this.
  14. Preach on Bro.!!

    God teaches his own for his own reasons. I also cannot understand what God saw in me. I was a back slid Catholic, Smoker, Drinker, Dope taker, two bad marriages, Party Animal and Womanizer. Then in 1987 it all changed for the better. When I went and heard a message in a Revival Church service 26 and.a half years ago. All those former nasty habits were gone after that. Boom! No more of those self destructive habits and sins...
     
  15. Amen I changed my life after a woman pulled her car over in front of me and I thought I was going to be changing a flat tire, well what ended up happening was something I was not prepared for at that moment, she told me her son had been missing for two days, and she was driving around looking for him or a crashed car they had missed, we could she from were she parked there was some brush and some trees push backed, I told her I would go down there and see what I could see, I found her son dead and the car he was driving split in half, he was dead for two days, his brain was coming out of his ear, an image that I will never forget, I came back up and told her she new before I even said a word that her son was dead, she was very upset and started walking around all over, then everybody started stopping, and people suggested to cover up the body, so me and a WW2 vet went down there and covered him up, just before this incident I saw another girl stab another girl in the highschool I was going too, then after I found the boy dead I got into a fight with my drug dealer he did not fare to well I am pretty tall and big, this was all in one summer, that February I could not stop thinking of the accident so I quit drinking and using drugs, things got worse for about two years, then started going to church with co-workers and went to a few different churches, not until I found a church in a little town next to the town I now live in did I have relief from all the problems that I brought upon myself, especially the spiritual ones, not until I was fully baptized in the water under the name of Jesus Christ was I able to finally get rid of all those demons that were haunting me, not using that term figuratively, but literally, I still fight against demons and the prince of this world, but now I have the tools and the knowledge and more importantly Jesus Christ on my side, now I fight a battle that I can not see, but I have and advocate that fights for me when I ask thank you Jesus from taking me out of my own miry pit.
     

  16. Hmmm. With all due respect, you've seemed to misunderstand once again. I agree with most of what you've said, but you seem to have also misinterpreted what I said if you think this goes in contradiction.
     
  17. Great and sobering testimony. There is nothing on planet earth worth missing going to heaven over. All the fame and fortune etc is not worth losing eternity with Jesus and the peace of mind and tranquility over....nothing!!
     
    LysanderShapiro likes this.
  18. No, I understood what you said. A mans worth to God is not determined by any Miracles God used the man in. So to even waste time attempting to prove miracles in a persons life is pointless.
    There is a teaching that Healing had been done away with the Apostles. That means the apostles had some type of special faith in the name of Jesus we don't have today. It means man is responsible for Miracles and the scripture saying God wrought Miracles by the Hand of Paul is no longer true.

    We act on the Word by faith, God honors any man that will believe him not looking at the natural circumstance.

    Women and Boy:
    Sorry you had to see that. Being a truck driver I have gotten to see things that are also messed up. I don't mind the body parts everywhere, what bothers me is the loss I see a loved one go through and the work of the enemy to bring sorrow and pain.
    In the Airforce I was assigned to go with officers to inform a family their loved one died over seas. It was not pleasant and I had nothing with God at that time to bring a Word or comfort.

    blessings.
     
    Ricko1 likes this.
  19. But that's not what it meant. And even the miracle aspect is only the tip of the ice burg. Most of what you said is right, and that's why it doesn't contradict what I said.
     
  20. If you say so, I suppose......

    Blessings.
     

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