Faith as a substance

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mykuhl, May 25, 2015.

  1. There is something about faith that I would like to discuss. This idea came to my mind a few years ago and it pops into my head every so often. It is the idea of faith being a substance, something that can actually be seen in the spiritual realm. A substance that can be seen by both angels and demons. That it can't be faked so to speak, that it is either there or it's not. So, in the spiritual realm they can tell if it isn't real because they don't see the substance.

    Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." This verse seems like it could support this idea. What do you all think about this?
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  2. This verse is the very definition and essence of faith. Faith that is real is followed by action.
    Juk likes this.
  3. well, words are a sound wave, a real substance.
    Emotions, anger, love, remorse, hate, guilt, stress, happiness are strong electrical impulses in the body resulting in physical chemical changes in us and others responding to us.
    I think God hears every word as Jesus says to his followers at the longest sermon [I think its the longest], ie after the last supper sermon,
    four times he says ask anything of me and I will do it. So God is listening 24/7,
    if you ask for a million bucks, forget it, ask your own father for a million bucks and see what he says, okay maybe he will give you a million.
    But if He gave us all a million bucks a loaf of bread would soon be worth a millions dollars, you can't alter economic realities, which is really off subject,
    But your question is,
    if you have a faith emotion?? joined with a verbal response, or a spiritual response?
    will it link to a spiritual energy field to create a substance wave?
    I think the Holy Spirit controls all this rather then an inanimate force like the force in star wars,
    God wraps himself with darkness, [look it up] not light, the darkness of the very substance of the universe at the subatomic level and He feels every wave
    of touch to that cosmic web of dark matter, so every word and emotion is felt by Him I think,
    and He can feel and manipulate all matter at the subatomic and galactic level.
    I think, from having an aura, auro, that halo around your body concept could be true so if you pray a lot your like a light bulb in the spiritual darkness
    and everyone starts to hang around, angels to help you and demons to trip you up.
    Or It could be like a spiderweb and if you pray or exercise faith you are pulling on spiritual webs, you'll get noticed the more
    you exercise praying, reading God's word and attending church,
    if you don't do any of these, indeed all of these, then you will soon be swallowed up by self deception and evil forces.
    like the seed that fell on stony ground, or became chocked with weeds or thrown into the fire for being unfruitful,
    yes once saved always saved is true IF your the seed that bears fruit.
    Juk likes this.
  4. Faith is the "goo" that allows the unseen to become seen. It is "sprayed onto the unseen" via the mouth. Declaration of faith via the mouth from the heart is how faith comes to fruition. Faith is the currency of heaven, as such, all the spirit realm can see it. We too can see it when tuned in, Acts 14:8-10.
    Cturtle, Juk and Mykuhl says Amen and like this.
  5. I would like to know how to turn a declaration of the mouth into one of the heart, so it becomes real faith and not just positive affirmations/thinking. This is something I am struggling with.
  6. Persuasion :) One must collect the word of God in the area you wish to overcome and study them, meditate on them, and then become fully persuaded :)

    Romans 4:21 (KJV)
    And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.​

    Speaking the word of God brings faith because when you speak it, it goes into your own ears and since it's coming from your own lips your brain rationalizes that it must be true and starts to tell the heart. This is building up your faith. Then your heart accepts it and you have delivery. All while eliminating the negative thoughts about what the word of God states. This is the process of working out our own salvation! One must be teachable by the Holy Spirit, the Author of the word of God.

    Wow! Thank you Lord!! I need to keep this for myself!
    Cturtle and Mykuhl say Amen and like this.
  7. By saying mouth he means speaking and speaking the word of God must comefrom the heart or it will not produce much
  8. I took a course many years ago that was called 'comparative religions'. It was a disappointing course, but I do remember some things...
    There was a discussion on just what was meant by 'substance'. You can boil that lecture down to the idea that a substance is tangible meaning something that can affect something else. If an argument is substantial, it is persuasive, while an insubstantial argument may be ignored.

    If I then apply that to your Hebrews verse, faith is the tangible promise of what is desired. It is what makes the hope more than an idle wish.
  9. #9 CCW95A, May 26, 2015
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
    Heb 11:1.. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    Here is my 2 cents...

    Sometimes we need to meditate, and speak on a verse before we can see what it us saying, at least to me.
    What is faith? it is a substance, and from where does this "substance" come from according to this verse?
    It comes from our hope. Where does our hope come from? It comes from the promises which is the Word of God.

    Psa 71:5.. For thou art my hope, O Lord GOD: thou art my trust from my youth.

    God is the Word.

    1Pe 1:21.. Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

    Having faith, and hope in God comes from God who is the Word.

    I believe we need to read this scripture in reverse to see what it is saying.

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for
    Hope produces a substance called faith.

    I believe the sequence is important. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God, but how is that faith produced, that comes from the Word? It starts out as a hope, and then this hope produces a substance called faith. Why would this be so important? Because "faith" brings to pass using the substance that hope gives. Or in other words, our "hope", that the Word gives us, is what we want our faith to produce using the substance that our hope gives our faith.

    Heb 11:3.. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    The Word of God "framed" what God wanted to come into existence using his Word which gave hope (the blue print of what he wanted) in which faith produced using the substance that hope provided. Our hope would be the "frame" which faith brings to pass.

    No builder builds a house without first having the planes to build that house!!
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  10. Faith is "trust", nothing more, nothing less. The sad thing is that folks with agenda have done their best to butcher the language in the last few decades.
    Faith is not a substance, it is not something magical, it is just TRUST.
  11. Ok, but God honors trust in Him by empowering us according to that Trust.

    By the way, be careful with the use of the word magical. Miracles do happen, and it is not magic.
    Abdicate likes this.
  12. If faith is just simply trust then why the whole convoluted description of it in Hebrews 11:1?
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  13. Rom 3:26.. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
    Rom 3:27.. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

    If there is the "law of faith" then there must be laws that govern how it works.
    Abdicate likes this.
  14. No trust is trust and nothing more. Faith is a Godly belief that comes from within the anointed written word. Faith is as an unseen power just as fear is.
    Abdicate likes this.
  15. There is nothing convoluted about it.
    "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for,"
    If you trust in God, the things you hope for will come to pass, if you do not trust Him, they won't.
    " the conviction of things not seen."
    Again, if you trust Him, you trust without having to see.
    Major likes this.
  16. Ravindran and Mykuhl say Amen and like this.
  17. Just to add if i may.....persuasion is another word for renew the mind....correct?

    And Here is what i herd from my pastor today.....speaking (or declaring) the Word of God, creates an image of what God says that we have. Because the Word of God is living and active..... so it's not just positive thinking or believing or confession. As you speak, and feed your spirit with The Word of God then your mind is renewed to the truth of the Word....thus producing faith according to Hebrews 11:1

    Thanks @Abdicate for sharing what the Holy Spirit gave you!
    Abdicate, Fish Catcher Jim and Mykuhl says Amen and like this.
  18. #18 Cturtle, May 27, 2015
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
    In thinking about the power behind the living Word of God, and the fact that faith is something that pleases God....something He can respond to......then as we feed our spirits with the truth of the Living Word and choose to speak by faith God's Word, then the angels that are sent here to minister to those of us who receive salvation, can bring forth the requests that we make, that are in direct agreement with the Word of God. Provided we do not provoke the angels....and the way to provoke the angels is to speak contrary to the Word of God. Or in other words doubt and unbelief.

    If you think about it...the angels know the Word of God, and they can only respond to what God has already said (His Word)
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  19. Amen sister Cturtle
  20. A few observations on the Hebrews 11:1 definition of faith. Robertson's Word Pictures says:

    Hupostasis is a very common word from Aristotle on and comes from υφιστημ (υπο, under, ιστημ, intransitive), what stands under anything (a building, a contract, a promise). See the philosophical use of it in 1:3, the sense of assurance (une assurance certaine, Menegoz) in 3:14, that steadiness of mind which holds one firm (. It is common in the papyri in business documents as the basis or guarantee of transactions. "And as this is the essential meaning in we venture to suggest the translation 'Faith is the title-deed of things hoped for'" (Moulton and Milligan, Vocabulary, etc.).​

    The Geneva Bible translates the word as 'ground', Julia Smith's translation as 'foundation', and J.N. Darby as 'substantiating'. On this last translation, W. Nee explains hupostasis as the way in which something becomes 'real' in our minds. Faith is like a 6th sense:

    "Here is a most fragrant flower. When you put your nose close to it, you can detect its aroma, but if you were without a nose or had a cold, you would not have the smelling ability. You would not know how fragrant the flower is. Fragrance as a substance would be nonexistent to you. Here is a piano. It produces beautiful music. The player is skillful and expressive. But none of these melodious tunes come to a deaf person. To him, music is nonexistent because he lacks the hearing ability. ... As the eye is to seeing, the ear to hearing, and the nose to smelling, so faith is the organ whereby we substantiate everything spiritual into us. Without faith, every spiritual matter is a nonentity to us. This is why the Bible calls faith the substantiation of things hoped for." (The Normal Christian Life)​

    I tend to prefer this later way of explaining what faith is. It allows us to perceive spiritual realities.
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